Honeymoon period is over with the new horse

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RunToEarth

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Butter wouldn't melt- my bottom.
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He is a perfect saint to ride, completely trustworthy and very straight forwards.
It is obvious now that from the ground he has been allowed to get away with cold bloody murder.
He has kicked my horse, and so I have split them up, Bert, Oshk and Bertha and elsewhere and Dom is now on his own.
He doesn't like being caught and brought in from the field, once you have caught him he will fight until he gets away from you.
He is not just your average bolchy cob, he is quite mallicious- he won't just struggle free from the lead rope, he will try to mow you over by turning his shoulder into you, its actually really scary. We aren't sure what to do now, he was meant to be a completely safe horse for my sister, and he has managed to get the better side of both myself and mum, which isn't good.
Contemplating sending him back, thoughts?
 
Chifney or bit in his mouth, lunge line to head collar, lead rope to bit, nice thwacy whip and a lot of time/patience!
 
I would try lots of ground work with him, making him listen to you from the floor. Take him in the school and yard, and make him move his feet away from you every time you approach. If he is good to ride, then he is worth perhaps persevering with.

And carry a hoof pick in your pocket so when he barges into you, you can gently but firmly remind him that it's not a pleasant experience barging into those sharp pointy humans.
 
Yes Boss, have had chifney, doesn't have any respect for it, but I will try the other ideas alongside it. Its the time that is the issue with us- we were under the impression he was a saint in all ways. I am working all summer, have my two boys to compete and Rob's youngsters as well so don't have the time to spend with him, and I'm not sure sister could do it by herself.
 
Not easy when they are so solidly built, the advice for catching is as always is take a treat to encourage him to want to come to you and stay with you, catch him, treat, let him go, walk away, go to him give a treat, walk away, call him, treat etc--etc, takes time and patience, but if he is bolshy then be careful he doesn't bowl you over for the treat.
I don't like giving treats to bolshy animals.
With the leading, bridle on, whip in hand and lessons on how to behave, lots of praise but a very very firm hand, and a sharp pinch often does the trick. Work with him in the stable make sure he moves away from you when you want, ie: when brushing, changing sides, backs for you when you are in front of him and need him to move away, etc. You ALL, will have to be extremely firm and give him the same signals, he needs to respect your presence, do as you ask him and be polite. Otherwise he is dangerous. 500 kilos of horse pushing you about isn't funny and often results in broken ribs etc...
Maybe your instructor could show you some basics on ground work, If responds well, he may be a sweety in a week, or not....
Lunging would also help to get him to respect your presence on the ground, but he sounds strong so don't do it in a large area, I suggest side-reins and not just a cavesson, is there anyone experienced in handling this type of horse that can help you? All this is dependent upon if you feel he is worth the effort, he may be having a try, they usually do. It may all disappear as soon as you become more demanding. Can you call the old owner and have a chat with them????
 
To be honest if you haven't got the time and the previous owners will except his return then i would return him. He's not what you were looking for and given the schedule you have for the rest of the year you will not be able to get the upper hand over him this season at least.
 
Used to deal with a big pushy RDA horse (inconsistent handling and probably not enough stimulation/turnout). Trick with him was to push him first. So, e.g. if going to feed in stable he /had/ to go /right/ to the back /before/ you brought the feed in. If you were as relaxed with him as you were with some of the others he'd take advantage but if you got in there first he was fine -actually v nice to be around. Had to avoid getting 'physical' though - he would have always won on strength of body so you had to get in there first with strength of mind! Depending on you/your sisters ages, sizes & confidence it might be fine. Pushing the boundaries in a new environment is normal too so you might find it settles down with consistent handling from yourselves. (Agree def good to speak to old owner though, espec. if they told you he was good from the ground.)
 
I bought a big coloured cob 5 years ago and he runs off when being lead and to be honest i think i would have been best sending him back but i have had him 5 years now and he is my favourite. But i tried every thing to stop him and he just turns his shoulder out and runs off but he is good to ride. I tried lungeing him and he would run off even drags men off etc no one can hold him if he wants to go he will go. We did send him off to horse behavioural specialist and this has reduced his running off and he is now easier to stop etc we now get away with leading him in headcollar with chain round nose. But he can be very dangerous he has mowed loads of people down and will run straight at you and has ran with people pinned to his chest, depends on what you wanting to do with him i would never take him to a show as he is a huge risk to others if he did run off also a pain to find a yard as they wouldn't want him on there if theres children etc
 
I have one of those and 5 years down the line I finally have a nice horse. He is another big bolshy cob, used to getting his own way and used to mowing people down. I bought him as a first horse and totally fell for him, so much so that I can never contemplate selling him.

As an inexperienced first horse owner I took the advice of our YO and tried not to allow him to get the better of me. The chifney works for us and we still use it ocasionally if needed, but the most important thing we discovered was that underneath all that bravado was a very insecure cob! I had to work had on getting him to trust me, which was hard as I didnt have a clue and he had been a riding horse for 6 of his 11 years. He used to bolt with me on the roads, spin around for home, nap when going out of the yard, tank off with me in the area, barge out of the stable and slam me into the corner with his big cob's a**!

Five years down the line he is so much better. We moved yard and he is out 24/7, he is mainly hacked and hunted as opposed to schooled all the time and we have a lovely relationship. He is the equine equivalent of Phil Mitchell - all muscle and bravado who loves his mum.

I would say if you had the time to sort him out then persevere. I had the time and to a certain extend the money and mine turned out fab.
 
How long have you had him? I wouldnt send him back if he's only recently started doing this - he's purely testing you! One of mine is a lovely horse BUT he is a sh*te to in a new home! I sold him a month ago but he was sent back within a week as the new owner couldnt cope with his ground manners. With me, he's a star BUT I had to work for his respect to begin with. He's now sold again but Ive made it SUPER clear that he will be hell for the first few weeks until he settles!! Some horses really just need time and work but I find these are often the ones who turn out fantastic. He's the one horse who Ive really formed a very close bond with.

I would get a controller headcollar (the type which tightens when pulled), worked wonders for mine who would tank off with me in a usual one. I also made sure he got into a strict routine and stood for nothing. I never argued with him as this made him worse. I'd just do lots of little things like moving him away from the stable door when I entered etc. Moving him over when I was grooming etc. Using treats did work well, in the stable Id just ask him to move backwards out of my space and he'd get a treat for it etc. just starts to make them want to work for you rather than against you.

I agree with the comment above - often these horses seem to be really cocky but actually they are often very insecure.
 
Groundwork - and make it a priority over everything else. Doesn't need to take long -5 min a day in the arena and stable and you will see a difference. Teach him to back in hand and then you can use it as a correction every time he steps out of line. A pressure halter might help with this more than a chiffney, or just a snaffle bridle with a coupling and lunge line or long rope.
I think sharp elbows and fingernails are more effective than whips - cobs can get extremely obnoxious but a well timed poke or prod with your thumbnail in the shoulder is the equivalent of what another horse would do to him.
I've had a bolshy cob and now an american quarter horse who is basically all muscles, and you don't need telling how dangerous it is when they don't respect you - the cob made a dive for his feed and send me flying into a concrete manger, and I was lucky not to break any bones.
The quarter horse would go over the top of you if she gets stressed but a couple of steps of rein back and she knows she's been told.
But equally once you've corrected them, behave as if nothing has happened, not too much fuss or too much on their case, until they try it again!
 
My boy used to be like that, and he would try and stand on you as well, and nip. It took my mum 4 months of working with him daily to get him to respect her - she did it whilst I was at work. In the end he would come to a whistle from the field and you could order him all the way to the back of his stable and when you brought his food in he would wait till you told him it was OK to eat.

BUT, if these rules aren't reinforced he will slip back into his old ways.

It did take a lot of time to get him to respect humans. I couldnt have put in the time that my mum did, not when I had work and commuting etc
 
Parelli?

sorry that wasnt very useful
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I would reccomend a chiffney and long rope, and total seperation from the others if possible
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I agree with others. I took on a bolshy 4 yo cob years ago that gave others the real run around. Even YO refused to bring him in from field! I just set firm boundaries and stuck to them no matter what. If he is really pushy then thumb and forefinger on either side on nasal bone usually works wonders in getting them to back up. Persistent, quiet correction will have better results in the long run. Mine also used to kick other horses and once boundaries were established on the ground most of his bad habits sorted themselves. I think once he is very aware that he is not top dog then he will settle down - horses need a place in the 'herd' and perhaps he just isnt sure where that is yet. Id persevere x
 
Someone eher mentioned 'getting in there first' which is a tactic I've used before with a pony that was quite bolshy and rude. the trick is to anticipate what it's going to do and be ready to counteract it.
This pony used to barge me each and every time i went into it's stable .once in the stable it was great, it was just the opening of doors, and it'd do it again when you got to the field.

Others may not agree but upon opening the door I'd growl and stand my ground (square shoulders, standing tall). On the first two occasions I thwacked it on the chest as it came at me, after that just the growl and stance, and the ruddy thing never did it to me again. after almost dragging me across the field I started taking treats with me and would make it stand outside the gate until i'd opened it, give it a treat, then making it turn round and STAND until I'd got its headcollar off, and then it'd get another treat. I cannot abide bad manners in a horse...

other than that if leading is the issue and it ignores a chifney then a controller headcollar and a stick should do it. I'm not suggesting you beat it, but a couple of reminders of manners..

If he's a saint to ride then i imagine psychologically this leading problem is just a blip that can be easily ironed out. Would you be able to take him to a friend's yard to be sorted out before the summer hols??
 
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