Hoof photos advice please

[Trules]

Hi there, I am looking for opinions on these feet please.
this is the mare I posted about 3 weeks ago, lame, she was diagnosed with corns/low heels. vet thinks she needs remedial farrier, heart bars. I took her shoes off 3 weeks ago and she has been turned out since. she has a small feed of speedibeet, linseed and pro hoof platinum. her feet don't seem to grow, well, they splay out sideways but have never appeared long at the toe. have owned her 18 months.

what do you think? will she recover barefoot? is this an option? x rays showed heels looking very low. what would you do? I would rather barefoot than remedial farrier.

thanks in advance.

tp://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j371/kirsty_smith9/20160402_171411_zpsmnvsyxe4.jpg[/IMG]

 

[HeresHoping]

Hi. Just thought I would bump this for you. I am no expert but I would say her frogs are moving in the right direction. To me, I think she needs to start using the feet now if possible. Some walking on the road for 10 minutes for 3 days, then 15 minutes, building up to 30. This will help to stimulate the hooves and you will also be able to assess the hoof balance with the associated wear. How are her corns and what are you treating them with? She is still a little camped under which suggests she is still a bit sore. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and give you a heads up. I think you need to take some heel shots, too, so the balance can be assessed. Good luck, I can't help but think good things will come of this.

 

[stencilface]

How is her landing, does she land heel or toe first (video in slow mo). Her feet look very similar to my horses from the side, with underrun heels, he was diagnosed with DDFT damage in both feet last September, and has just come back from 12 weeks at Rockley. Before going to Rockley he spent 10 weeks in egg bars shoes with wedges and showed no improvement in his lameness. He is sounder now and hopefully will continue to get sounder. He is norman on the Rockley page if you want to look.

Hopefully someone better will be along to give some more advice, whereabouts are you so people can recommend a good farrier/trimmer for bf.

 

[Trules]

Thankyou for your replies.
I suspect something more sinister is going on in there. what exactly is DDFT, what would cause it and what is the prognosis for recovery? she has had a very quiet winter doing slow road work to mend a damaged suspensory, which is now all clear, so she certainly hasn't injured herself through hard work! I will read your blog to catch up. I had a quick trot around the arena on her at the weekend in front of experienced eyes, she appears sound on the right rein, but lame on the left. if I hold her together in an outline it is a lot less noticeable, let the contact go and she appears worse. what is it that Rockley can do, that we can't replicate at home? I know they have variable and ideal surfaces for stimulating the hoof growth.
I am Staffordshire/Cheshire border, it would be fab if I could get recommendations for a trimmer.

again many thanks.

 

[FFAQ]

Hi! It's worth taking a look at the equine podiatry association uk website. There's an interactive map that can find your nearest EP. I think that shoes are more likely to make the corns worse so best leave them off for now. You'd be surprised at how much is recoverable through a barefoot approach, but then I'm biased as I'm an EP
Beautiful horse by the way! Good luck

 

[Trules]

Hi! It's worth taking a look at the equine podiatry association uk website. There's an interactive map that can find your nearest EP. I think that shoes are more likely to make the corns worse so best leave them off for now. You'd be surprised at how much is recoverable through a barefoot approach, but then I'm biased as I'm an EP
Beautiful horse by the way! Good luck

thankyou FFAQ. she is such a genuine little mare, she has such a chilled personality, I really hope she is fixable. she is still only 6, and has so much potential, I am just unsure whether I should be working her, just 10 mins up and down the lane to stimulate growth, or leave her until she is sound. (how long is a piece of string?). i will check out website. many thanks

 

[stencilface]

Ddft damage in the feet is also referred to as navicular syndrome.

You can do the rockley rehab at home yourself, but as I managed to get deft damage in his front feet when he was already barefoot I thought I needed more help.

My boy was sound in trotted uphill on smooth tarmac although actually he was bilaterrally lame on both fronts, noticeable on the flat and on a circle on a hard surface. Once we nerve blocked the worse leg was only when we realised he was lame on both!

 

[FfionWinnie]

To do Rockley by yourself is possible but you have to be very brave and follow their protocols and probably fly in the face of advice from every professional around you. The first being don't trim.

The Rockley blog might give you some ideas how they would deal with your horse and how they have helped horses in her situation.

I have 6 self trimming BF horses and I have no lameness issues and never have. I think in your situation with a young horse like this I absolutely would bash on and have a go at rehabbing her myself as it would seem unlikely you could make it worse and a fair chance you might have a an amazing success to come back and post about.

Have you seen AlexHyde's recent posts and pics on here about her horse's feet?

 

[Trules]

thanks Stencilface, your boy's symptoms do sound exactly like my mare. are you hopeful of returning to a decent level of work? does navicular usually mean the end of competitive life?
I do have 1 self trimming mare already, but she has hard as nails feet and has never been shod, part bed appaloosa. so this route is very appealing.

Ffion Wwinnie, the don't trim method sounds perfect to me, i am a total believer in letting nature take it's course. this mare's feet grow incredibly slowly anyway, I will crack on and have a go, nothing to lose, she can have the whole summer now pootling on short hacks. my land is clay also, so when it dries up, it is very hard in places. I have had a look at Rockley blog, I will drag her over the gravel drive regularly!
many thanks

 

[stencilface]

I am hoping he might return to some kind of work beyond hacking on the buckle end, but given he's 16 and his other issues he's had I will be taking it very slowly. Navicular is not the sentence it used to be, with bf rehabs they can go on to exactly the same work they were before, or more. Have a look at Project Dexter on the Rockley blog. You horse might not have the same at all, mine was only diagnosed on an MRI after nerve blocks, but looking after the feet has to be a priority.

 

[ycbm]

You need to get a lot dirtier when taking photos we need them from lower down.

Are his front feet bull nosed?

Has he been tested for Cushings, it would be wise at his age?

If all that is wrong is tendon and ligament damage from the low heels, then the prognosis is very good.

Get him walking, in hand if he is not sound to ride. As someone else said, check whether he is landing toe first and don't ride until he's landing flat or heel first or you risk more damage.

If you have self trimming horses, just go the same way with him.

Check out other threads on here for diet advice.

Sorry this is a bit perfunctory, I need a wee and to get outside!



He needs to be out and moving as much as possible, but too much grass can be a big enemy. If he must stay in, make it during the day of you can.

 

[Trules]

You need to get a lot dirtier when taking photos we need them from lower down.

Are his front feet bull nosed?

Has he been tested for Cushings, it would be wise at his age?

If all that is wrong is tendon and ligament damage from the low heels, then the prognosis is very good.

Get him walking, in hand if he is not sound to ride. As someone else said, check whether he is landing toe first and don't ride until he's landing flat or heel first or you risk more damage.



Sorry this is a bit perfunctory, I need a wee and to get outside!



He needs to be out and moving as much as possible, but too much grass can be a big enemy. If he must stay in, make it during the day of you can.

LOL! ycbm. I like straight talkers!
I have just spent £400 on a vets bills to tell me she was still lame, probably bruising to heels, but also low heels on xrays. If it was just bruising I would have hoped she was sounder by now (4 weeks ago) but she isn't so i'm assuming something worse is going on. not overly keen to spend more money on diagnosis just at the minute, I need to build up to it! she is a 6 yr old, so I assume cushings not relevant? feel free to tell me otherwise. I can electric tape off a section of field for the summer to grass is restricted.
I will endeavour to get slow mo videos of landing. (there are some teenagers around today who can help with that kind of thing! ) thanks again.

 

[ycbm]

Sorry, thought she was the 14 year old as I skim read earlier posts. 6 should be ok but I have heard diagnoses in younger, but I would wait and see how she goes first.

Treatment for ligament and tendon injuries in the foot with no shoes on is identical to sorting out low weak heels anyway, so unless you are desperate to give your vet an early retirement, there doesn't seem a lot of point in spending any more money at the moment.

 

[ester]

On the xray is her pedal bone a bit flat/counter rotated? The bullnosing often follows the front profile of the bone and did in my lad. Once grown down he has been straight as a die.

IMO they are quite a nice set of feet to be starting with and I would wait and see, it looks like you might get a steeper angle coming down and I bet that flare sorts itself out.

And yes, you need to practice your photo taking
trimmer registrations are EPAUK/UKNCHP and AANCHP (I think I got that last one right) They do all trim in a slightly different manner, mine happened to be UKNCHP which tends to be along the rockley less is more option.

 

[Trules]

thanks for your feedback, i'm hoping to get some better pics/video tomorrow, weather is vile here just now.
here are her xrays, vet says her heels look worse on the xrays.

any thoughts?

thanks

 

[ester]

I think what happens is that they look worse on xrays because they look worse when you take the shoes out of the equation and it is only then that you can really see the extent of any underunning.

same hoof (also shows you the bull nosing we had)
21.2.12

6.4.12

this is what we properly started with pre bar shoeing november 2011 (so superficially they did improve in shoes, but didn't make him sound!)

and his xray (nov 2011) - you can see how the front wall mirrors where the pedal bone is, and how it is slightly counter rotated = flat soles. Don't have any new xrays but the lack of bullnosing now and the more concave soles lead me to conclude it is in a better spot

I really must take some new pics, the trouble is when they are good you don't seem to bother but they got better again when I moved him a couple of years ago and he did more work. This is the change to about the year point which hopefully just shows what I mean a bit- there are still 'issues' with the after a year feet but he was sound and they aren't really relevant here.

With him both of his xrays were as bad as eachother but on lame on one, when you watched his landing it became obvious that he was landing very laterally on his lame side, not so much on the other, so I suspect he had some collateral ligament damage at least. I hope that maybe helps! Which side is she lame on? I keep changing my mind from your pics.

I have learned a hell of a lot about them in the last 4 years and there is no doubt in my mind that if heels are the issue they need to get them out of shoes and working properly so they can do their own beefing up - soft tissue as well as outside horn.

 

[Trules]

thanks Ester, she is lame on the left worse. the barefoot route makes total sense to me, and I will certainly give it my best shot.
her forelegs seem to go out at all angles trotting on a hard surface, straight line, but she doesn't look lame per se. lameness much more apparent on a circle to the left.
thanks again x

 

[FfionWinnie]

You want her to be comfortable so I would avoid the gravel drive to start with. Ideally you want some smooth Tarmac but if she's sore on that then walking on grass will still stimulate the hoof (in hand rather than walking herself around eating it!). Do it all gradually and don't panic would be my advice. Also get the diet right because that is likely to make or break it.

 

[Trules]

Hi there, I have got some video footage, hope it works. she doesn't appear to be landing toe first to me, neither does she when trotting in a straight line on tarmac. she only appears lame on left rein.
Ester, she does appear slightly bull nosed in shape.
any comments welcome.
kind regards