Horrible, horrible experience at puppy class tonight

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StableMum

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Took my 18 week old puppy to puppy class tonight, more for socialisation than training. It is the second time of going and although there were some aspects last week that I was not happy with, like encouraging playing with the lead to get the dog to lie down, (I've just got him not to do that!) and the velcro recall sit. I liked the idea that each puppy gets to individually meet the others and is taken and handled by all the other owners to have a fuss and their teeth ears and paws looked at. We had met all the other puppies and my puppy had been successfully handled by all the other owners and the last to go was the trainer himself. We swopped puppies with him and as my daughter and I were fussing his puppy we looked over to see that the trainer was man-handling our puppy and trying to force his jaws open to look in his mouth, and him not being very happy about it! He then suddenly grabbed our puppy by the neck in both hands and lifted him off the floor - pup weighs 17 kg. puppy by now screaming and daughter and myself are legging it across the room to see what the hell is going on. Pup by this time is being forced onto the floor on his back. It all happened so quickly yet in slow motion. I asked him what the hell he was playing at and he said that our puppy had bitten him when he tried to look in his mouth. This is a puppy that I have yet to hear growl let alone bite. If he did feel a tooth it would have only been a baby canine catching him as he tried to force open his jaws. Yes he will play bite as all pups do but these have become very soft now as we are teaching him that he must have a soft mouth. I was stunned and walked out immediately. All this man could say to us was that "the dog needs more handling" - not like that he doesn't! Poor puppy I hope it hasn't done him any lasting damage, he is such a good boy and so far has loved everybody.
 
What a d!ck:confused: what the hell was he looking in his mouth for? and why teach them to play with the lead to get them to go down:confused: I have never heard of this method of training:confused:
Steer clear, there will always be spivs training along side the trainers that actually know what they are doing, I would have lamped him one:mad:
 
Hey that's really harsh! Yes you need to be able to touch and GENTLY examine a pups mouth, but that is not the way to teach them that you wont hurt them!! Wouldn't have blamed your pup if it had 'bitten' him.

Don't let it put you of puppy classes, just don't go back there! I took my dog for a month or two, but some of the dogs started to bark the whole time and mine began to get nervous and bark too. Also there were so many dogs there, we spent most of the time watching others and it got boring for us both.

Good luck!
 
Poor puppy :( I would have prob decked him if he treated Charlie like that :mad:. Hope your puppy is ok now and doesn't hate everyone. I didn't take Charlie to puppy classes but the methods used by that trainer sound very odd to me. :confused:
 
StableMum said:
Took my 18 week old puppy to puppy class tonight, more for socialisation than training. It is the second time of going and although there were some aspects last week that I was not happy with, like encouraging playing with the lead to get the dog to lie down, (I've just got him not to do that!) and the velcro recall sit. I liked the idea that each puppy gets to individually meet the others and is taken and handled by all the other owners to have a fuss and their teeth ears and paws looked at. We had met all the other puppies and my puppy had been successfully handled by all the other owners and the last to go was the trainer himself. We swopped puppies with him and as my daughter and I were fussing his puppy we looked over to see that the trainer was man-handling our puppy and trying to force his jaws open to look in his mouth, and him not being very happy about it! He then suddenly grabbed our puppy by the neck in both hands and lifted him off the floor - pup weighs 17 kg. puppy by now screaming and daughter and myself are legging it across the room to see what the hell is going on. Pup by this time is being forced onto the floor on his back. It all happened so quickly yet in slow motion. I asked him what the hell he was playing at and he said that our puppy had bitten him when he tried to look in his mouth. This is a puppy that I have yet to hear growl let alone bite. If he did feel a tooth it would have only been a baby canine catching him as he tried to force open his jaws. Yes he will play bite as all pups do but these have become very soft now as we are teaching him that he must have a soft mouth. I was stunned and walked out immediately. All this man could say to us was that "the dog needs more handling" - not like that he doesn't! Poor puppy I hope it hasn't done him any lasting damage, he is such a good boy and so far has loved everybody.
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My advice is just leave, find other classes to attend. I haven't read other comments but i'd never train my animals in such a way as I didn't agree with.
I think the blokes a knob.
 
Definitely change classes, trainer sounds like an idiot. Getting different handlers to fuss your pup is fine, but I am sure my youngsters wouldn't like a stranger trying to open their mouth. I hope your pup soon forgets the experience. Having said that, if he weighs 17 kg at 18 weeks I imagine he is quite a large breed so I would suggest you try and stop him play biting, he is getting a bit big for that. However, that is for you to train out of him not a so called "trainer".
Oh and a numpty question, what on earth is a velcro recall sit?
 
What an eejit!:mad:

Agree the play biting needs to stop (Henry weighs the same as your puppy and he's nearly three!) but that's not the way to stop it:mad:

I would also work on being able to examine his teeth gently to make sure he doesn't lose trust - start yourself, just gently pulling his lips up then rewarding and eventually get other people he knows and trusts to do the same - the vet will need to be able to do this so it is important. Don't know what that bloke was trying to achieve though:mad:
 
God, there are some friggin muppets around.

How did you find out this particular training course? If it was advertised through your vets or your breeder, tell them about your experience. They may have the good sense to stop advertising him.

Tw*t!
 
Velcro recall sit - my definition of the obedience recall sit when the dog comes in and sits so close that every bit of him is touching you including his throat because he is pinned to you looking upwards. lol. Fine for obedience bods and to learn later if you want to, but for a pup I think that if he comes back and then sits politely then that is enough for now. His play biting has almost completely disappeared now and is very soft if he does get excited. He seems no worse for his experience this morning.
 
amymay said:
God, there are some friggin muppets around.

How did you find out this particular training course? If it was advertised through your vets or your breeder, tell them about your experience. They may have the good sense to stop advertising him.

Tw*t!
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Our vets did give me his number, have now rung them and they are crossing him off their list.
 
Agree with the rest, he sounds like a tw@t.

Playing with the lead with puppies in any training sequence is a recipie for disaster when they're older.
And why the hell does he need to force the mouth open to look at teeth anyway? You keep the bite closed and lift the gums gently. I know 18mos that are still unhappy with that and one who nailed his owner by accident a few weeks ago doing just that!
My ten year old bitch was never happy with having her teeth looked at but I'd like to have seen him lift her off the ground....

I've been reading about that theory about letting them soft-mouth people and I am not sure how useful it is, well, for me personally, anyway.

That guy is going to have his face taken off one day if he scruffs and pins the wrong dog!

Hope you find a good trainer soon.
 
In this case, the wrong dog would include Henry - my Henry! Soft little Henry that lets tiny children poke his eyes and swing off his ears! (not that I let them so this you understand, but sometimes the little darlings get in there first:eek:)

He would have gone for the guy for sure, in self-defence.
 
Poor you and poor puppy.
Agree with everyone--vote with your feet and go elsewhere. I'd demand my money back as well if you've paid in advance.
Stupid man need to be struck off.
 
Good for you for walking away! The 'trainer' sounds like a totally ignorant ****!

The velcro sit can be useful if you want to do obedience, but I don't see the point of it in a puppy class! Puppies should be socialising with humans and other dogs, being de-sensitised to common objects, handling, etc. and learning basic commands.

I would recommend the Association of Pet Dog Trainers for finding a suitable trainer:
http://www.apdt.co.uk/about_APDT.asp
Their website has a lot of info on the methods they use and why (as well as the methods which they do not use and why). Trainers on there use primarily positive reinforcement (mainly clicker but some use lure and reward and other reward based techniques) and only use selective negative reinforcement techniques (e.g. sharp noise is OK, Alpha roll is not).
 
The other thing is that some trainers are not experienced or skilled at dealing with bigger dogs. I took my young Dobie to dog training. Got in the room, he was being fine. A little dog barked at him and he barked back (as you would expect!

Trainer came over and said 'Has he always been that vicious?' !!!!!!!!!!!!
He wasnt even near another dog and hadnt even growled.

So I thanked her for her comments and turned around and walked out. Never went back..... Dog is now 5 years older and has never so much as looked at a person funnily, and is a dopey mutt. Vet muzzles the terrier to do horrid stuff but never needs to bother with the Dobie.

So if you do go to another trainer, go to one who you know has owned or likes larger dogs, as some are only keen on small dogs.
 
You MUST contact the KC or APDT and find out if this guy is a member / registered trainer. If so write an official complaint immediately. This should never have happend. A puppy can be put off for life. Not acceptable at all and the guy needs reporting.
 
This guys is listed with the Kennel Club under their Good Citizen Dog Scheme. Have phoned them and they are taking it seriously. I have to put it in writing and they will act on it.
 
Firstly, so sorry to hear about your puppy class. It's the last thing you expect to happen when it should be a really positive experience. I don't want to hijack the thread, (and apologise in advance) but could I ask peoples opinion, as I have also just taken my puppy to his first training class. It's very friendly, based on positive reward and well structured. My concern is a very large Newfoundland (I think!) aged about 9 months. All the other pups are 3-4 months, so the weight difference is about 7-8 kgs to 40kgs. They are allowed to socialise off lead with each other before training starts and when it finishes- all good stuff. The problem is this Newfoundland likes to land in a heap and squash any unlucky puppy not quick enough to get away, as the size and weight means they are totally pinned underneath. I know puppies scream over not very much, but I'm quite worried that real damage could be done. The trainer is adamant they need to sort themselves out. Any ideas or suggestions for a clearly over-protective first time mummy?!
 
It's a bit unfair to expect the Newfie not to be able to play with his pals, it isn't his fault he is that size and I've never heard of a puppy being seriously injured in this manner, but it might be safer to have him just play with some of the older, bigger dogs, if there are any.
Bodyslamming and pinning is normal in playfighting and pups can be real drama queens!
 
Thanks for the reply, I know it sounds like I'm being overly precious about it! Puppy plays very happily with our older dog, a Collie and is always being pinned down or generally roughed up. I appreciate the other dog has to have fun too, but he does completely smother them with his full weight and it just looked slightly harsh. Ah well, puppy is a slim and wiggly lurcher, I'm sure he can soon squirm free next time!
 
Yeah, nice and soft! I always feel bad for my fella, he is so big, no one outside training class ever wants (or is allowed) to play with him (except for crazy Tikka!) and that just makes him more frustrated and therefore prone to be arsey :(
 
Tell you what- I'll get puppy a Point 2 body protector, and everyone can bring their big dogs and squish him to their hearts content! (and if I smell any more puppy trumps like the one just now, I might start advertising )
 
Gosh this is so awful. Tho' if he did that to my terrier pup he'd be leaving minus a hand coz my little monkey locks on like a crocodile!!

But there are serious issues to this; who is this guy? does he claim to have any dog training qualifications? If so then he should be reported to the relevant overseeing association, but if not, it might be worth mentioning to the local dog warden as if he's treating dogs like this in public, then what is he doing in private?

Your poor pup.
 
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