Horrible schooling session last night, not sure what to do? *long!*

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sfward

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Sorry this is so long but I if you've got time to read I could really do with some advice.
I'm having real schooling problems with my 5 year old at the moment. On both reins she falls right and hangs on my left rein, and some days can be so dead and heavy in the hand. I'm really struggling to cope with this, no matter how hard I try I can't seem to overcome this problem and it is really affecting my position - I find myself twisting my right shoulder and hip inwards in an effort to turn her, I'm sitting left, I can't get my weight on my right seatbone at all, I'm drawing my right hand across her neck, and I can't keep my hands level and down. I've never had any of these problems before, it's all a reaction to what she does, particularly on the left rein, but I can't stop myself doing it. Virtually every time I school now I have real back ache in my left lower back from twisting. She is definitely lacking suppleness and seems to find things quite hard, but I know most of the problem is me, and I'm driving myelf mad worrying about it, now I even feel like I'm sitting wonky in the car or on my office chair!! I've been to the chiropractor and I've been working really hard and having lots of lessons but I just don't seem to be getting anywhere. Some days I feel like she goes ok, on others like last night it's like riding a plank of wood with lead bricks in your hands she is so stiff and tense through her jaw. I'm just feeling really down today as I feel like we haven't improved at all over the last few months. In fact if anything we've got worse recently; lately I can't even canter her as she gets all tense and runs on my hand so I get all tense and it all goes to pot. We never used to have that problem before! I'm just not sure what to do now. If I could see an improvement I could feel like at least I'm doing the right thing, but at the moment I can't. I know it's a baby horse thing to have phases where everything goes wrong but this is turning into a long term problem and I'm so worried I'm going to ruin her and my riding in the process.
Do I persevere with the lessons and hope all will come right eventually?
Should I go and have some lessons on another horse to work on my position before I get irretrievably wonky? This is hard due to time and money but I'm prepared to do it to overcome this issue. I really wish I had another horse to ride so I don't get so trapped in this way of riding as I think my bad habits are only becoming more ingrained.
Should I send her away to a professional for a week (I don't really want to do this as I know we will just get back into old habits if I can't learn to ride her properly and it will just be a waste of money)?
I've been concentrating on flatwork in the hope that if I can crack this the jumping will come better automatically, but maybe I'm just boring the heck out of both of us and I should do something different for a couple of weeks eg. hacking and jumping but this is difficult with the dark evenings at this time of year.
I'm not an inexperienced rider at all but I just can't seem to crack this problem. I'm so worried that I'm going to end up so crooked and stiff and twisted that I won't be able to sit straight ever again
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But then again I could be being melodramatic
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Please help I'm not sure what to do... Thinking maybe I should just take up knitting instead
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Trust me you're not alone in this one! Other infinitely more knowledgeable people will give you thorough advice but here's mine for what it is worth:

Open your inside hand and use leg, then spur then schoolingwhip to push your horse out off the leg. Do this in walk initially, then in trot. Once she is off your leg properly you'll find she is better balanced and ready for canter which will stop all the stressing/panicking.

No matter what she does, DO NOT close that inside hand. It is automatic to close it, but you have to be clear and consistant about what you want. I'd keep schooling to just achieving this aim for a while and see how you do.

I've been through this recently myself so know just how excruciating it is! Good luck!
 
Yes, it's so nice to be able to air your problems and thoughts on here isn't it? I have found it such a help just to hear other people's opinions, so this is my humble one....

Of course you must have had her back and teeth and saddle checked lately? Or this whole thing could be easily rectified without your schooling being the main key... I reckon looking at your experience that must be all okay...

I learned from one of my long term dressage instructors that when a horse leans on the rein it is actually a problem in the OTHER rein

Believe it or not, this is the case, however wrong that may sound.

Get your horse to take the light rein, this may best best on a hack if that is at all possible or have a training session with lots of slow outside track work! Give the leaning/heavy rein intermittently so she can't take it or lean on it, in the mean time, take the contact on the (it must be...) too light rein. You'll find that every time you try to take a nice firm contact on the very light rein, she will "follow" your hand and end up possibly even staring right round at her bottom!

May be after you've done this you'll find there is a whole new method of schooling her round coming open to you and lots more to work with!

Keep giving the heavy rein right up to the "buckle" intermittently, and with you trying to hold the other one, she'll end up coming on to the contact a bit better, this could take some time, but I'm sure from what you've described you'll get somewhere and perhaps start to enjoy her and move along somehow!

Maybe during this just work her forward with the whip or spurs so you can sit really straight and relax your legs so she doesn't learn your sitting in an uneven way andyou can undo that to with some alexander type sitting!

If she really can't stay on the outside track may be you can put some jumps/cones out to get her to walk round the outside of whilst you fiddle with her neck/mouth
 
thanks, I'm glad it's not just me! I do tend to worry and over analyse too much but I'm just sick of this now! What you've described will probably help on the right rein; the issue I have to the left is this drifting right, it's like the entire right side of the horse has dropped away from me, peculiar. To cope with it I've developed this habit of riding with my left hand permanently open and then pulling my right hand across which pulls all my weight over to the left side. So I can move her off my inside leg all I want but it never achieves anything because even without realising it I'm sitting left, using my inside hand all the time and never getting her into my outside hand because the rein's stuck to her bloomin' neck ... Gah so frustrating!!
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Can i ask is this your hobby or your liveryhood? as if liveryhood send away for re-schooling but if YOUR HOBBY i would take your foot off gas, and have a real think about your long term aims with horse
It sounds to me as tho you need to just do some fun things with your horse and leave the hard work whilst infront of your trainer who will give you pointer and get your confidence up.
 
Of course you should not take up knitting,life is so hard at this time of year.

Does your trainer ride the horse during your lesson and demonstrate what is wrong.Have you had all the usual checks done of back
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[both you and your horse] teeth
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[just your horse] saddlery.
If you have done all that but are still at a loss I would go to a good dressage trainer that will ride for half your lesson and demand you sit correctly the rest of the lesson, maybe you should try some Alexandra tequ. lessons for yourself as well.
Please relax and start to think positive, make a plan for small steps forward and give yourself small things to achieve.
I wish I lived near you so I could have a little look at you but you will find the right person
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so will she turn off the outside leg inwards? As I understand it you're ending up supporting her rather than her balancing herself?

Have you tried asking for outside bend and spiralling down to a 10m circle? Do this with your outside hand open to really get her off the outside leg.

I use shoulder-fore to get my horses straight. I used to firmly believe it was me sitting wonkey when I kept on feeling off centre on my horse's back. Then I realised it was actually me being sensitive to their quarters being off line. I do little shoulder-fores on each rein to really get the bottom where it should be. Being able to control the quarters radically improved my youngster's canter as she is now able to balance on turns because her bum no longer drifts out.

I hope this helps!!
 
Thank you, that's really nice of you
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You are right I do need to be more positive but it so hard when you feel like you're not moving forwards.
In answer to your questions, teeth were checked in the summer (very good), she has been treated twice by McTimoney chiropractor (last time in September when she was pronounced much improved from initial check when her spine was out and she had uneven muscle development from loading her weight onto the left shoulder) - but maybe she needs to be checked again, perhaps by the vet or physio? I've been seeing the chiropractor regularly since the summer and apparently I am looser and more even but I can't say I'm seeing much improvement in my riding as a result.
I'm having regular lessons with a good dressage trainer who is excellent at concentrating on my position and faults, as yet only had 3 sessions with her, I'm not sure whether she will ride her though. I also went on a course at YRC where the instructor rode her for me several times and helped me a lot - it's difficult to go regularly due to distance making evening lessons impossible but I'm going again to her on the 15th.
I have never heard of Alexander technique? But I was considering going back to YRC for some more lessons on their school horses - during my course I had a couple of sessions with one of the advanced instructors who was excellent in helping with my position.
 
Asking for outside bend on the left rein tends to result in us hitting the fence!! No matter how much outside leg I attempt to use (bearing in mind my right leg is my 'naughty' leg and always creeps up) the slightest touch on the outside rein independent of the left rein results in her veering right....
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I could probably just about manage it if I kept the rein close to the neck but I think achieving it with an open outside rein would be near on impossible, i can see I would end up grabbing the left rein for steering
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ETS I'm not trying to be negative at all so I hope it doesn't come across that way, just trying to be honest about the feeling she gives me!
 
Lots and lots of leg yielding/counter flexion and make her get off your outside leg when on the left rein!! I have same probb on some days with my boy, loads of yielding on a circle really helps
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I think you sound more positive already.I do not know a lot about Alex. tequ. but I think it tries to make you aware of you body and straightness and inner core strength but other will have more knowledge on that, I just meant exercise off your horse working on eveness.[sp]
Ask your trainer to ride your horse and demonstrate, maybe it looks better than it feels, it usually does.
You will get there because you are trying to understand and improve, that is the start but don't get bogged down enjoy as well
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It does sound as though she is getting very anti that right contact.

In yours schooling:

Forget the direction of travel, kick on, loose legs, tap with the whip, of course if she ends up in the corner, just STAND there, may be let go both reins and ease her on a bit

FORGET correct schooling because that is not happening anyway and she will not progress and you will get more and more frustrated anyhow.

Just keep working on her trying to take the right rein, more and more.

She's obviously just become so extremely light in that right one that she feels it's impossible for her to go on it, but you must persevere.

Lots of steps back, in order to progress. If she is in a corner and can't move, loosen both reins and walk on again, then take the right again, it'll take lots of goes, you know how Mary Wanless says, to imprint the automatic brain memory for a position to become second nature you have to do it thousands of times (don't worry, it'll seem less!)
 
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Asking for outside bend on the left rein tends to result in us hitting the fence!!

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go then - until you solve this, she's not going to be balanced!

Try teaching her to turn off the outside leg - ride a 20m circle, open inside hand to indicate direction of turn (I call it pointing in the direction you want to go), also turn head to look in that direction. since she is sensitive to the outside hand, I guess i'd keep the contact light but present. Then use a hell of a lot of leg, pony club kicks, then spur and taps with whip until she gets the idea. Eventually she'll click. My yougster is likewise 5yro and we experienced this in the summer!

It just takes a while for them to get the concept, but you have to be consistent and repeat often. Soon you'll have a whole new set of problems of her being too keen of the outside leg! ho ho.

Don't make it All About You (as they say) though. Having been through similar issues myself (oh boy have I!), you'd be surprised how little of it is about your riding. You know you're good at this stuff! Relax, take a breath, then simplify your sessions to one simple aim at a time.
 
Yes you're right I did! It went ok, she got 61.25% and 62.4%, just our canter was awful, the trot work was reasonable, even got a couple of 8s. I just know that I am disguising this problem rather than solving it currently
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ok I'll go back to basics for a bit and work on this. She does turn off the outside leg a lot better than she used to, and I find riding a diamond with turns on the forehand at each corner helps too, getting her to turn off my leg rather than my hand, although she has almost got a bit 'stale' on this exercise and draws her neck back at me.
I think I probably try too hard which is when my position goes...
thanks so much for all your suggestions
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I'm going through exactly this same problem with my 10 year old and finally starting to come through the otherside! Forever had to have a lot of time off work - nearly 18 months due to my health problems and then he had a foot absess that turned into a 6 month nightmare! When he came back into work, he would not be submissive at all, would hang off the left rein on on both reins, would not listen to my leg and generally felt horrible - on a horse that was working at medium before his break!

We have done alot of lunging in a pessoa to help make Forever more submissive without compromising my seat, also to build the muscels up in the right place to make it easier for him to work correctly. Forever ENCOURAGES his rider to slouch in the saddle as he know you can't use you leg effectively, he tricks you into wanting to pull on the left rein and he does all this with both me & my trainer on board - and anyone else who hops on too! You have to be very disciplined with your own position and keep checking what your hips/shoulders/hands are doing every few strides. With Forever, the faster the pace, the harder it was to get him to be submissive. I stayed in walk for 2 weeks just working on getting him off my inside leg to the outside hand! If you need to, use a balance strap or neck strap to make you more aware of your contact and stop you pulling back with your left hand - so difficult not to do if you have a horse that encourages you to do this!

Work you horse on a circle and on the right rein, make sure you keep gently flexing your horse first one way (still on the circle), then the other so she doesn't fix on the left rein although it is your outside contact. Forever crosses his jaw and really fixes on the left rein to the point that if I let him keep going like this, I have a dead arm within minutes. If you find you lose the submission, go back to halt, regain submission before going into walk again - remember horses are stronger than us! If need be, do this every few steps until you find you can gradually increase it. Keep pushing the horse off your inside leg into an elastic contact so that there is no left rein for the horse to fix on. I actually shake the rein (a kind of increased viabration on the rein) at Forever now if he does start to fix - it will bring his head up a bit but I can then get the submission back and keep riding him. It is a case of playing around with different ideas until you find what works.

On the left rein, open the inside hand in and forwards to encourage inside bend without pulling. Push the horse off your inside leg until she almost falls onto the outside contact. The left rein should be the easier rein to fix as you can maintain amore constant outside contact.

Only go up to trot when you have walk cracked as if you cant keep her soft in walk, you won't manage it in trot and it just makes the problem worse. When you do start trot work, again, just do a few strides before bringing her back to walk and riding her into a deeper more submissive contact. Exactly the same in canter. It takes time but doing it this way worked for me as trot and canter meerly exacerbate the problems you have in walk.

The cause of Forever's problem was actually that he wouldn't go off the inside leg and the left rein thing was more a case of him avoiding having to work - hence the loss of submission and fixing on the left rein. The only way to correct it is to not allow the horse to pull on the left rein and to keep stepping away from the inside leg at all times. I also used shoulder in on a circle to improve the response to my inside leg. PM me if you want me to tell you a few more of the tricks I used!
 
Oh and the other thing I do if schooling is going stale is hack where I pick inside or outside bend at every turn in the road. Horse already knows where it is going so can help make the link without the pressure of a schooling situation!

Love your sig by the way. If you're capable of riding like that, you're quite capable of sorting this!
 
Everyone else here is much more knowledgeable that me - but I also have a 5 yr old at the moment & am having some of the same problems as you. We have just started lessons and my instructor told me to tap my horse with the whip on the shoulder that he is falling onto. That's in addition to the hand/leg aids already described in previous posts. I found this really helped as my youngster didn't really know what he was doing wrong and a tap (I carry a short whip rather than a schooling one at the moment) just gives him a nudge to say 'oi, watch what you are doing with that shoulder' but doesn't upset him or make him feel that I am beating him up. I use it only rarely now but it helped to get us over a bit of a blockage.
 
Thanks that's a good tip. I do find having a whip in that outside hand does help, stops me drawing my right hand across her neck as much as anything else!
 
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