Horse Aggression towards me in stable .. advice please

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Englishcowgirl91

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Before I go into it my horse is 19 months 2 in may He is temp at a diy until I can find another herd. Last one he couldn’t stay as they lost their land and all horses had to move he couldn’t go with.
And please don’t say Chuck him In a herd, he’s been in a herd from 6 months until 2 weeks ago with horses his age and older mixed ages and I’ve seen him put in his place many times by other horses but that hasn’t stopped him testing boundaries with me. I’m a new herd now just me and him for a minute. As much as a herd will help young horses mentally and put them in place within the herd It doesn’t teach them everything and how to act with us when we ask things of them.
So would really appreciate some advice for the situation I’m in now :)
He is really great in all other ways :) a real sweetie!

To start he was fine in the stable with the food as he always had been when fed out in the open.
I noticed last week that he was getting aggressive when I approached with the food so doing what I thought right I didn’t give him the food until he backed up and away and then once showing positive behaviour I then laid down the Food.
The first first times were challenging, I had the bum come round in me for just entering the stable and then I used the broom (NOT TO HIT) but as my arm to move him over and then the broom to back him up. He didn’t like it and it was not aggressive from my part but I can see how he would find it a square off.
The next night I did it I used a-bit more energy and he stood there a little like “what just happened” he was then just standing so I put the food down!
The next few night have been better. I use a bucket over the door as he kicks the bowl over on the floor. Not only is it a waste of food but I don’t know if he’s eating it then. It’s just his balancer.
So the bucket on the door has been working as I don’t have to go in the stable and I’ve not been getting pinned ears.
He does however like to kick the front of the door when eating..but if I stand there and say “no no or uh uh” he doesn’t.

Tonight though I felt there was a step back on progress as I had the feed in he politely walked into the stable and stood and waited whilst I took his head collar off which he didn’t do before so that’s good at least. But as he went over he was fine, tipped the bowl but as I went to walk in to pick it up he turned his bum on me..
this is the confusion for me!
I wish I had used to door bucket as I know deep down it stops him spilling it and pawing it over.

in the field I have tried feeding him there and he is alot calmer does paw but doesn’t really show any aggression so I’m wondering if this is something to do instead of feeding him in the stable to learn a behaviour or is feeding him the field avoiding correcting a behaviour?

I would love some advice from those who have corrected or experienced it themselves.

Like I said he’s been in a herd from very young, been corrected and still does this anyway so would like advice around how this situ is now..

Hopefully I can find another herd soon :)
 
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I don't have the experience for this but I'm sure someone who does will be along soon.

I did want to ask how plans are going for gelding and getting him company to be turned out with?

Also picking up from past posts that other horses have bullied him off his food in the past, have I got that right? It seems like he's had big changes recently so all together maybe not surprising he's struggling with his behaviour around food.
 
TheMule said:
He sounds hungry- does he get forage in the field?
Anyway, it really wouldn’t bother me as it's such an avoidable situation- just have the bucket in his stable already or hang it on the door. No need to be in there with him.
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He gets balancer the min amount but he’s in good condition and not underweight or overweight, hay at night and hay out in the field in the day with grass, he tends to not really go on the hay in field in the day his choice.
The yard Owner told me not to put hay out there as he doesn’t need it … obviously I didn’t listen but yeah what he’s on I think is enough :)
Your right about the bucket and I don’t make a habit to go in there normally just put it in the bucket and get on with other things just tonight he turned when I went in but I could have been getting something.

He’s fine once the feed is gone and I go in there.

:)
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
I don't have the experience for this but I'm sure someone who does will be along soon.

I did want to ask how plans are going for gelding and getting him company to be turned out with?

Also picking up from past posts that other horses have bullied him off his food in the past, have I got that right? It seems like he's had big changes recently so all together maybe not surprising he's struggling with his behaviour around food.
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Yes he gelded about a month ago now :) healed nice and he wasn’t really coltish before hand anyway so I’ve not seen a different behaviour as such in general:)

Yes other horses in the herd did used to bully him off once the herd established they all ate together and all was fine but the heard was changed up so much I would loose count. A new leader came in and they were all scared away again.
I did consider that it’s because food as been scares to him in the past he is thinking I’ve really got to fight for this.

I think either field feeding him or just giving in the bucket And leave him to it will be better for him.

As for getting him company he has a horse next to him in another paddock and loads opposite in there so compared to not seeing another horse at all it is not the worse option because for now he can see others.
Most of the time when he’s out his head is down and he doesn’t show any signs of stress like pacing running around stressed.
I’ve been at the yard most of the day some days and he’s always eating 😂
Obviously company where he can play and groom is going to win every time but I’m trying to find somewhere still.
I want to get it right as I’ve had really bad experiences in the past with turning him out In herds with people who say they would look after him but didn’t.
Im
Not saying run him a bath or roll the red carpet but when your paying £400 a month for him to be on grass in a herd with no jay or feed and no trims nothing and having to find him laying down not able to walk because he has the worse abscess it kinda makes you worried that if he was coliving or badly injured wouldn’t anyone notice is I wasn’t there..

I do not want to baby him before anyone picks up that’s what I mean but yes he is my horse and I have a duty of care to him to give him the basics :)

Really hope I can find a nice herd it will probably be once Christmas is out of the way for spring :)
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
My best advice is 'pick your battles'. Don't get into a position where you have to wave a broom about, that could easily backfire. Put the bucket over the door , as part of your normal routine and concentrate on teaching ground manners in a less highly charged atmosphere.
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absolutely.
If the battle is that without food he walks over you, won't stand at the end of a rope out of your space and respect you that is a battle to fight
food isn't or at least not at t he moment. Feed him over the door and let him get on with it so he feels he can eat in safety without another horse (in this case you) coming for his food.
 
If everything else is fine, just chuck the feed over the door and leave it like that for now. Then work on his behaviour around food in a space that is not so confined. I would correct aggression but also walk up and add things (carrots, more nuts, apple bits) when they are calm, so they see me touching the bowl as only a positive experience.
 
Is he actually threatening to kick? I had a new to me 2yo colt who was turning his rear end to me in the stable which I found strange as in every other way he was a sweet chap and I knew his history from foaling and he had never been badly treated. So I started to scratch his bum whenever he did it and sure enough he was a little unsure and just needed kindness and reassurance.
 
Irish-Only said:
Is he actually threatening to kick? I had a new to me 2yo colt who was turning his rear end to me in the stable which I found strange as in every other way he was a sweet chap and I knew his history from foaling and he had never been badly treated. So I started to scratch his bum whenever he did it and sure enough he was a little unsure and just needed kindness and reassurance.
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I will have to build up the confidence for that as he has thrown a leg once.. :)
But your right kindness and patience is key. I don’t find getting angry helps. Just makes the energy all wrong. He’s been better last 2 days I just put in the bucket on door and leave and get on with stuff. He’s happy for me to take it away when finished and doesn’t make faces.
I was showing authority when leading with a raised voice when he was being a little pushy and pulling me all over and it didn’t work. As soon as I took a breather and made the whole thing a conversation with a little humour and understand he will now walk with me respectfully. Gets a little excited with other horses time to time but I don’t pay to much attention to it, that’s pretty normal :)
He used to also wave his head around at me and all directions when putting head collar on and taking it off but now he doesn’t so he is learning :)
Thanks for responding! X
 
Irish-Only said:
Is he actually threatening to kick? I had a new to me 2yo colt who was turning his rear end to me in the stable which I found strange as in every other way he was a sweet chap and I knew his history from foaling and he had never been badly treated. So I started to scratch his bum whenever he did it and sure enough he was a little unsure and just needed kindness and reassurance.
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Noooo...
1. Because it's rewarding aggressive/fearful behaviour

2. Because encouraging a horse to turn its bum on you for a scratch is asking for trouble, even in none kickers. A friend of mine, a very, very experienced horsewoman, who owned a stud and several stallions, had a lovely mare (her own, an old and much loved retired riding horse) back her bum up for a scratch in the field. My friend stumbled backwards as the mare stepped back, and fell, and the mare stepped on her ankle. Her ankle joint was crushed, and she ended up with a whole load of ironwork in there, and was lucky not to lose her foot. (She also had to crawl half a mile dragging her leg, this was before mobile phones were common). Bum scratching should be strictly on your terms, not theirs, and any movement towards you while doing it should end the scratching and interaction instantly (same goes for any srratching IMO)
 
Fingers crossed for a more baby focused set up soon. He's testing boundaries and honestly this testing of you would be less if in a herd to keep a busy young mind occupied. I'm sure your aware of that and I appreciate that's not the answer your looking for.

As others have said as this is only a temporary situation I'd let him be in his stable. Have his feed (haynet, water, bed) ready when he comes in, change his rug outside the stable if he's rugged. Once his headcollar is removed his stable is his space until you need to take him back out again.

Keep working on your ground work with him and hopefully the food aggression will lessen as the ground work is more established and the grass comes through in the spring. MY youngsters are eating a lot more hay this year. I think that even though the grass is still growing there really isn't much nutritional value left in it. I've found babies need more calories than an adult horse as they need to fuel their growth. Good for you for providing hay in the field for him.
 
dorsetladette said:
Fingers crossed for a more baby focused set up soon. He's testing boundaries and honestly this testing of you would be less if in a herd to keep a busy young mind occupied. I'm sure your aware of that and I appreciate that's not the answer your looking for.

As others have said as this is only a temporary situation I'd let him be in his stable. Have his feed (haynet, water, bed) ready when he comes in, change his rug outside the stable if he's rugged. Once his headcollar is removed his stable is his space until you need to take him back out again.

Keep working on your ground work with him and hopefully the food aggression will lessen as the ground work is more established and the grass comes through in the spring. MY youngsters are eating a lot more hay this year. I think that even though the grass is still growing there really isn't much nutritional value left in it. I've found babies need more calories than an adult horse as they need to fuel their growth. Good for you for providing hay in the field for him.
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Thank you really appreciate your reply:) hopefully I can find a better suited set up in the new year. Top advice thank you :)

Have a great Christmas x
 
I'm with the pick-your-battles camp. I do think their stable should be their space and their dinner is their dinner. I'd be pretty pissed off if someone was messing with me whilst I was trying to eat and would respond badly. ;) Sometimes if you just adjust how your routine goes with youngsters you may find in 6 months time that you revisit this situation by accident and there won't be an issue, because he'll realise that you're not actually interested in his feed. In the summer my colt was fed alongside my gelding in the field who obviously would push him off to see it was better, swap feeds etc as they do, when we first came to our winter routine Solly (Colt) was probably a little pushy when I opened the door to put the bucket in, I ignored it by and large as it was just very slight ears back, or walking round, and 2 months later he just stands politely with no "corrections" as such, he's a similar age to yours, they basically don't know the expectations at this age, they are trying to figure out what you want, what they want, whose who etc and sometimes if you make a too much of something in then becomes an issue? That just my experience, this is the second foal I've raised, but I've done stud work, and lots of backing breaking etc in the past, and it's always worked for me. Now leading, loading, grooming etc is when I make it very clear it's my space and they are just privileged to be there so no ears back and "horsey" communication that is people time. :D

((I also had a truly stable aggressive horse in the past, it is not pleasant and realistically you have to work around the 600KG animal when it get to true aggression and find a neutral ground where you can both stay safe and no one is at 100% stress threshold such as tying them up outside for rug changing, respecting the stable as their private suite once they are in there that you don't enter etc as you will not win a phiscal fight without abuse and creating a bigger issue so my two pence is to not get into that fight least you create a monster.))
 
i had this with one of mine, when she was on box rest - she’s a bit of a grump anyway in “her space” but she got to the point it was downright dangerous to go in with her at all.

to begin with we used a schooling stick to point at her and tell her to go back, because being in arms length of her wasn’t fun🤣 if she went back but still pinning her ears and snapping at me she didn’t get it, she had to wait the whole 3 seconds until she stopped threatening to eat us.

doing a lot of groundwork in the arena was the biggest help, teaching her to back up with voice commands and wiggling the leadrope gently, so that now my non-horsey OH can tell her to go back and she listens.

she got significantly better when she came off box rest, obviously, but she’s still a grump and we’ve accepted that’s her personality - when i’m mucking out with her in the stable, she’ll come and take the fork off me, put her head on my shoulder, nuzzle my hair, but if i then point and click at her to ask her to move she puts her ears back and walks off, almost as if she’s saying “fine! i will go then, but not because you told me to!”🤣

different pony outside the stable though, i can pick her feet out loose in the field, put the bucket down and take it back off her, the full works and she’s fine. just a case of picking my battles!
 
Landcruiser said:
Noooo...
1. Because it's rewarding aggressive/fearful behaviour

2. Because encouraging a horse to turn its bum on you for a scratch is asking for trouble, even in none kickers. A friend of mine, a very, very experienced horsewoman, who owned a stud and several stallions, had a lovely mare (her own, an old and much loved retired riding horse) back her bum up for a scratch in the field. My friend stumbled backwards as the mare stepped back, and fell, and the mare stepped on her ankle. Her ankle joint was crushed, and she ended up with a whole load of ironwork in there, and was lucky not to lose her foot. (She also had to crawl half a mile dragging her leg, this was before mobile phones were common). Bum scratching should be strictly on your terms, not theirs, and any movement towards you while doing it should end the scratching and interaction instantly (same goes for any srratching IMO)
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I’ve got a worse story that that.

Bloke whose horse turned bum on to him. Reached out to pat bum.

Horse gave him both barrels. He’s blind now. Got him in both eyes.

Please be careful. Even a horse you trust can do it.
 
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