Horse being PTS question

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
I agree, did she ask for an opinion on when to PTS?? No, so butt out!
Actually, she asked about the financial aspects of it. Insurance will not pay out for planned PTS. They will only pay out if the horse has to be PTS for humane reasons. I have had many horses in my care with arthritic conditions and they cope just as well in winter as in summer, so long as they are well rugged, and have turnout and good feed. So no reason to choose a particular time of year to PTS for humane reasons. It is all to do with us anthrophomorphising. Horses do not think that way. If a horse is suffering PTS if not then don't. How can you plan such a thing? :confused:
 

babymare

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 June 2008
Messages
3,817
Location
cheshire
OMG people back of this lady please re the last summer - the horse is buted - come on long term use is not an issue regarless of dosage- living the last summer in the field. Its not being battered abused or ragged around- its quietly enjoying the summer chilling in its field PAINFREE - SORRY FOLKS back off her. My god you have an owner who clearly is upset by the future asking for support. Yes we all have opioins before anyone spouts that but sometimes your opioions should be kept to self. And I for one support her as Im possibly doing the same for different reasons. Hang in there OP you are doing exactly many of us on here would do hugs to OP xxxxxxxx
 

joeanne

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 May 2008
Messages
5,322
Location
Cornwall
The cost will vary wildly on factors like where you live and how you want to do it.
I had 1 PTS by injection a couple of years ago. £250 for the PTS and £150 to take and cremate.
The last one (Sept) I had shot by the local knackerman and he cost me £120.
Insurance will not pay for PTS.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
OMG people back of this lady please re the last summer - the horse is buted - come on long term use is not an issue regarless of dosage- living the last summer in the field. Its not being battered abused or ragged around- its quietly enjoying the summer chilling in its field PAINFREE - SORRY FOLKS back off her. My god you have an owner who clearly is upset by the future asking for support. Yes we all have opioins before anyone spouts that but sometimes your opioions should be kept to self. And I for one support her as Im possibly doing the same for different reasons. Hang in there OP you are doing exactly many of us on here would do hugs to OP xxxxxxxx
Okay, the horse has hunted every winter for nine years. Yes? But last year was a bad winter. Presumably still hunting? How does the OP know how he would cope not hunting, say with light hacking? These may all be avenues explored already by the OP. But the impression I get (which may well be wrong) is of a horse that hunts every winter, then has the summer off. Presumably last winter he could not cope with the hunting? But maybe he would be fine just in the paddock? If the OP cannot afford to retire him then that is another thing entirely. But no, insurance will not pay out unless the horse has to be PTS there and then for humane reasons.

All I am saying is why put a date on the PTS? Why not just take it day by day regardless of time of year?
 

babymare

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 June 2008
Messages
3,817
Location
cheshire
Because Wagtail people deal with things differently - The OP knews the horse better than anyone. knows how it coped last winter Could it live with light hacking etc Jesus the horse is not suffering its cared for and loved (and how many horses are there who are not in that situation)- OK i am facing a simliar thing - I think this maybe my mares last summer - shes 13 half blind. I will be moving from area to move in with my fella. My mare had awful life before i bought her, if her routine is changed she stresses. Now she is happy and calm she as routine she knows the smells the sounds her field her herd. So do I move her( if I can find a yard to take half blind horse) and poss cause her stress and worse or allow her this last summer and then do the deed. where she is happy and at peace? This mare as been my rock ok and "the horse of a lifetime"And believe me I have thought long and hard with many tears and talked with my vet so hey rip into me. If this horse was being neglected abused suffering then yes question OP decision to give the horse the last summer but its not - she is allowing herself time to comes to term with whats happening( which is just as important) whilst horse eats grass in field doing hat all horses like doing - Is that so bad! All I say is please leave this person alone - we all know our horses better than others, we all acted differently - whether as individuals we agree - and hey summer sun on back in a field - is that so bad :)
 

gable

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 January 2009
Messages
403
We didn't get many hunting days last winter - many meets were called off due to the weather, the ground etc. I had no idea he had the beginings of DJD until he started bucking after a jump last winter. Got him checked out and x rays confirmed he has DJD. His hunting career endind then.
He does not want to be in the field in the winter - why stay in the field with little grass when you can have a comfy warm straw bed and as much hay as you want? He goes out for a bit then stands by the gate. Being in made him stiffer - he lost weight.
He became very lame about a month ago, got him checked out again and his DJD had worsened rapidly. He will never be ridden again and is pain free on bute - or at least field sound. He never hoons around the field - he is far too greedy! Why run round and waste valuable munching time!
I would want nothing more than for him to be a light hack - but unfortunately his poor pasterns are not up to it.
So he WILL have the summer to chill, and myself and my vet will decide when the time is right. If that is before the winter - then so be it.
 

touchstone

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2007
Messages
4,873
We didn't get many hunting days last winter - many meets were called off due to the weather, the ground etc. I had no idea he had the beginings of DJD until he started bucking after a jump last winter. Got him checked out and x rays confirmed he has DJD. His hunting career endind then.
He does not want to be in the field in the winter - why stay in the field with little grass when you can have a comfy warm straw bed and as much hay as you want? He goes out for a bit then stands by the gate. Being in made him stiffer - he lost weight.
He became very lame about a month ago, got him checked out again and his DJD had worsened rapidly. He will never be ridden again and is pain free on bute - or at least field sound. He never hoons around the field - he is far too greedy! Why run round and waste valuable munching time!
I would want nothing more than for him to be a light hack - but unfortunately his poor pasterns are not up to it.
So he WILL have the summer to chill, and myself and my vet will decide when the time is right. If that is before the winter - then so be it.
And this is exactly what I would do too. :)

If a horse is comfortable in the field, but you know that he will suffer come the winter it is absolutely the right thing to do. I can undertand pts immediately for a suffering horse, but many are comfy over the summer on bute. Lets them be a horse for a while and enjoy chilling. I'd rather pts than keep an uncomfortable horse going over a difficult winter too.
A good owner knows their horse and when the time is right, people on forums who have never seen the horse or know the details are in no position to judge, and at the end of the day everyone has their own opinion, you've got to do what you feel is right, not what somebody else thinks is right for your horse.
 

Tormenta

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 June 2009
Messages
869
Location
Scotland
No, insurance will not pay for PTS.

Personally I never can understand this seemingly very common idea of giving a horse one last summer. If a horse needs to be PTS for humane reasons then the decision should be made at this time. What do you do if your horse is having a really good day on the day you have planned? Why not wait until he has a bad day and take the decision then? It may be tomorrow. It may be in five years. But I personally could not have a happy horse PTS. If your horse is suffering do it now. If not wait until he has had enough and then do it. Sorry to be blunt but I just don't understand this PTS at the end of the summer.
My friend choose to do just this because she did not want to risk a vet or knackerman not being able to get there if there was bad weather conditions, what would be worse, giving a horse the Summer and PTS before Winter or having a horse in pain or down if they take a turn for the worse during blizzards and no-one able to get there to euthanise? What is wrong with a horse having a Summer with friends in the field? As long as they are pain free then I see no problem in it at all. So you see although my friend's horse was happy in the field, she just could not risk a Winter, especially like the recent ones we have had. She choose to do it to prevent any suffering. No way could she have risked taking it day by day during the Winter. Personally I wouldn't want to wait until a horse that I loved and cared for had a 'bad day'.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
My friend choose to do just this because she did not want to risk a vet or knackerman not being able to get there if there was bad weather conditions, what would be worse, giving a horse the Summer and PTS before Winter or having a horse in pain or down if they take a turn for the worse during blizzards and no-one able to get there to euthanise? What is wrong with a horse having a Summer with friends in the field? As long as they are pain free then I see no problem in it at all. So you see although my friend's horse was happy in the field, she just could not risk a Winter, especially like the recent ones we have had. She choose to do it to prevent any suffering. No way could she have risked taking it day by day during the Winter. Personally I wouldn't want to wait until a horse that I loved and cared for had a 'bad day'.
I guess my vet is only 5 miles down the road, so it is not something I worry too much about, though if I was out in the sticks somewhere, it may be a consideration. My best horse ever is currently retired in the field through breaking her shoulder and rupturing the tendon. She has her off days but is mainly very comfortable and happy and bute free. If anything though, she is more comfortable during the winter than the summer when she gets 24/7 turnout.

No horse enjoys the winter. They all tend to wait at the gate to be brought in, even the completely healthy ones. I think we are in danger of athropomophising too much at times.
 

touchstone

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2007
Messages
4,873
I'm not sure I see giving a horse a last summer at grass 'anthropomorphising', it is what it is, allowing the horse its last comfortable months before you know that winter will set in.
A horse with stiff painful joints in winter with cold, damp and frozen ground to contend with, is a different kettle of fish to one in the summer and not all horses stand at the gate waiting to come in, but if they do then surely its better to do the deed before they are stood miserable wanting to be in, or seizing up in the box?
 

Tinseltoes

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 September 2009
Messages
2,599
Location
South Wales
Personally I would let him live his life out grazing,or bring him in in the nights and rug him up well.He will let you know when hes ready to go.Just see how it goes and if he gets really bad in say mid winter then do the deed then. Just give him another chance.He might be ok this winter, you don't know how he will be until the time comes.he could manage 2 or 3 winters for all you know.As long as hes happy.
 
Last edited:

Baggybreeches

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 December 2005
Messages
7,982
Location
LANCASHIRE/MERSEYSIDE BORDER
No, insurance will not pay for PTS.

Personally I never can understand this seemingly very common idea of giving a horse one last summer. If a horse needs to be PTS for humane reasons then the decision should be made at this time. What do you do if your horse is having a really good day on the day you have planned? Why not wait until he has a bad day and take the decision then? It may be tomorrow. It may be in five years. But I personally could not have a happy horse PTS. If your horse is suffering do it now. If not wait until he has had enough and then do it. Sorry to be blunt but I just don't understand this PTS at the end of the summer.
Ah but then you know how happy and healthy your horses are, because you have had them vetted, prior to any change in workload ;)
 

Damnation

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 February 2008
Messages
9,663
Location
North Cumbria
When my mare was PTS last September the insurance company would not pay out for LOU, death or disposal of the body.
I had 2 vets who supported my decision, and fought my corner with the insurance company, speaking to them personally without us asking (Fabulous vets!!)
However I was told by the Insurance company that they would not pay out unless the mare was travelled to a vetinary college to have investagative stuff done. She wasn't fit to travel so I forefitted the money.
I am presuming that if you have xrays and the correct documentation for the diagnosis, that supports that the horses quality of life is comprimised and that PTS is the best option then the insurance company should pay out.
But insurance companies are very good at wriggling out of paying apparently.
And the injection, although not my preferred choice of euthanasia is quick and quiet, they feel nothing.
I had my mare PTS and I orginised her burial. (She was PTS on a neighbouring farmers land and bless him he buried her on his field)
 

martlin

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 December 2008
Messages
7,649
Location
Lincs
OP, just an idea on cost depending on options you choose:
I had a horse put down a couple of months ago, it cost me £150 to have him shot and taken away by knackerman.
A friend of mine had her little horse put down by the vet at £300, it cost her £700 to have her cremated and the ashes returned.
And don't worry about Wagtail, just ignore her - that's what we all do :)
 

Tormenta

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 June 2009
Messages
869
Location
Scotland
I guess my vet is only 5 miles down the road, so it is not something I worry too much about, though if I was out in the sticks somewhere, it may be a consideration. My best horse ever is currently retired in the field through breaking her shoulder and rupturing the tendon. She has her off days but is mainly very comfortable and happy and bute free. If anything though, she is more comfortable during the winter than the summer when she gets 24/7 turnout.

No horse enjoys the winter. They all tend to wait at the gate to be brought in, even the completely healthy ones. I think we are in danger of athropomophising too much at times.
I beg to differ, all mine are out 24/7 with field shelter, rugged accordingly or not as the case may be and ad-lib hay, when I take them all in for a feed, they walk straight back out to the field and back to grazing, even in snow they often choose to go out and dig for grass. They can decide whether to use their shelter or not and that is what they do.

My vet is only 7 miles away but I can tell you now that once the snow comes down there is no way on earth that vet would get here without walking. Not a nice thought should something happen is it?
 

fatpiggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 December 2006
Messages
4,593
Wagtail clearly doesn't suffer from arthritis themself. Mine is infinitely worse as soon as the temperature drops, and I'm hardly standing around doing nothing all day.
 

Maesfen

Extremely Old Nag!
Joined
20 June 2005
Messages
16,597
Location
Wynnstay - the Best!
I'm of the camp that sometimes the summer is the worst of things for a horse.

Vets will tell you that one last summer is not all it's cracked up to be from the horse point of view although it suits our sensibilities, it's not always the best thing for them particularly if they are lame (with or without bute). There are the flies and midges plus the very hard ground which makes it hard for them when they stamp to get away from the flies which add up to just as much a problem for them as the mud and rain do in autumn/winter.

All I say is do the best for the horse, not for yourself although it's never easy to not be selfish in this situation as in reality, those that 'give him another summer' sometimes make it worse for them even though you have the best of intentions.

I'm sorry, I don't have a clue about costs as mine always go to the kennels after being shot here.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
Personally I would let him live his life out grazing,or bring him in in the nights and rug him up well.He will let you know when hes ready to go.Just see how it goes and if he gets really bad in say mid winter then do the deed then. Just give him another chance.He might be ok this winter, you don't know how he will be until the time comes.he could manage 2 or 3 winters for all you know.As long as hes happy.
That is what I am trying to say. If a horse is comfortable right now, I don't know how I could make a decision that on such and such a date I will PTS. I would have to take it as it comes. It would just cut me up knowing that I intended to end the horses' life regardless of how well he was feeling on the day, as soon as the weather turned. And the closer it came, the worse it would get. I know that there will come a day (maybe quite soon) when my mare will need to be PTS, but it may be tomorrow or it may be in 15 years. I cannot plan it.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
Wagtail clearly doesn't suffer from arthritis themself. Mine is infinitely worse as soon as the temperature drops, and I'm hardly standing around doing nothing all day.
Actually, I have arthritis of the back and am on painkillers every day. :( Yes, winter is worse but only because I have much more heavy work to do. Also, I would not want to die rather than put up with the pain.

However, if a horse was clearly suffering, I will and have PTS. I just don't plan it.
 

POLLDARK

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 March 2011
Messages
1,211
Location
HEREFORDSHIRE
If you have the hunt to do it they would do a kind & effective job for you, even feeding polos while the job is done.They smell of horses & dogs & not chemicals like a Vet so the horse is relaxed. They will take the body away & all for a nominal sum so you would not have to worry about that. I take comfort that the body goes to the hounds & so in a way my horses lives on through them.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
I'm of the camp that sometimes the summer is the worst of things for a horse.

Vets will tell you that one last summer is not all it's cracked up to be from the horse point of view although it suits our sensibilities, it's not always the best thing for them particularly if they are lame (with or without bute). There are the flies and midges plus the very hard ground which makes it hard for them when they stamp to get away from the flies which add up to just as much a problem for them as the mud and rain do in autumn/winter.

All I say is do the best for the horse, not for yourself although it's never easy to not be selfish in this situation as in reality, those that 'give him another summer' sometimes make it worse for them even though you have the best of intentions.

I'm sorry, I don't have a clue about costs as mine always go to the kennels after being shot here.
Yes summer can be just as bad. My mare is often tweaking her shoulder because of the hard ground, where as in winter she is in the all weather and seems to be much more sound. They run around because of the flies (even in fly rugs) and generally get hot and cross. I think as long as horses are well fed and rugged in winter, they should not suffer from the cold. But yes, if the horse is going to be stood in mud, without rugs and inadequate hay then they are going to suffer.
 

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,816
Location
Lincs
If you have the hunt to do it they would do a kind & effective job for you, even feeding polos while the job is done.They smell of horses & dogs & not chemicals like a Vet so the horse is relaxed. They will take the body away & all for a nominal sum so you would not have to worry about that. I take comfort that the body goes to the hounds & so in a way my horses lives on through them.
But the OP doesn't want the bullet. I have to agree with her. I much prefer the injection. Maybe it doesn't matter to the horse, but some people just don't like the thought of a bullet hole in the head.
 

suestowford

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 July 2005
Messages
1,483
Location
At home
It's some years since I had a horse PTS, everything has gone up so much since then that telling you how much I paid would be irrelevant.
Just wanted to say well done for planning ahead and deciding before you get into a crisis situation.
I know when I did have my old boy PTS I was in no state to decide anything. I'd hoped he could have the summer to sunbathe (he loved doing that!) but arthritis doesn't wait on human wants and he had to be PTS sooner than I'd hoped. At least by thinking ahead you will not be making decisions while you're upset.

I second taking some hair - there are several companies making really nice jewellery from horse hair. It's a lovely memento.
 
Joined
13 August 2006
Messages
12,923
Location
Well north of Watford
It isn't our place to judge the OP. She has decided on behalf of her horse (which we must accept she knows better than any of us) that towards the end of the year he will go. This decision has evidently not been made lightly and we shouldn't sow seeds of doubt or disagree with her reasoning.

I'm not going to say what I think in this instance; I will agree that a plan is definitely a good idea but should also have contingencies for the unexpected.

How and where and when is up to her, and again is not up for debate. gable is the only one who has to live with any regrets - and they could be that she didn't do it sooner as well as left it too late. I hope it all goes well and exactly to plan.

Sadly, I think the insurance won't cover pts costs. I am a chicken and couldn't tell you how much the injection cost me - I said fill in the cheque because I don't want to know :( She lies in my top field.
 

gable

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 January 2009
Messages
403
I'm overwhelmed by your support - I'm pretty good at ignoring advice I didn't ask for. I think you have to be in the horsey world.

I always remember the saying my dear old dad would say about his horses.

'Better a day too early than a day to late.'

Which is exactly why he will go while he is relatively comfortable than wait till he is having a bad day.

I'm still no wiser as to how much it will cost for PTS by injection and collection. I don't want his ashes
 
Top