Horse being pts this week....has come good?

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poiuytrewq

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Now im properly confused!

Rough back ground for anyone who has had the fortune to miss my saga!
He's 12 and Ive had him since he was 6. We have had problem after problem after problem. Eventually I rehomed him supposedly permanently and got a horse I could finally enjoy and as my riding is just hacking alongside my daughter it was important to me to have a level headed horse.
However a year later the new owner was unable to meet his needs (he's hard to keep happy and sane). Of course I took him back as I wanted to ensure his future. I tried to loan him from my yard but was unable. He had an accident which pretty much wrecked his knee- now arthritic.
Then he was diagnosed as having a back problem- similar to KS but he has a spur of extra bone growing from one vertebra into the next. I retired him.
Last winter was disaterous- Very expensive, My land couldn't cope with the awful weather and extra horse, it was awful and I think I actually came close to depression.
However we came out the other side, until spring when the lameness began. A diagnosis of laminitis followed, then a positive test for cushings.
I decided to pts. He was very very sore and miserable and I couldn't stand seeing him like that. This was about 10 days ago I guess. I put him on bute and gave him good grass (also softer than his starvation paddock on his feet)
This was supposed to give him a happier last few days.
However plans have been difficult so have taken longer than I meant and I swear he's turned a corner. He's much more his slightly rude excitable self and is almost sound looking in walk.
Now the vets supposed to be coming on Thursday (unconfirmed) but I feel so guilty now.
On one hand I know xrays would still show his back problem which still hurts and a blood test would still confirm cushings but he looks ok.
What would happen if I shod him? I cant afford to treat the cushings but he looks ok this week with no treatment.
I think ive just left it too long between the decision and the action and now im questioning if its the correct one.
 
What an awful dilemma. :(

I suppose it would be easier if he was clearly suffering right now to face what you've decided. Him perking up must be making it all very difficult but then you know it won't last and he'll be in pain again soon. I really feel for you. :(
 
I think you are having the cold feet that come with this decision.

This sounds to me like a horse that can't be kept comfortable for a length of time.
Perhaps it will be easier knowing that he wasn't in pain when he went.
I know I deeply regret not acting sooner for my boy who was in pain.
 
So cancel Thursday. Maybe this week is not his week to go. I have no problem postponing or cancelling the vet when our oldies turn the corner and seem to be doing well again. Maybe in a months time he might have another turnabout and if so you are pretty clued up on what to do now and you can revert to the original plan. If he stays fine then just leave him till you notice changes again.
 
totally, On one hand maybe its best to let him go now while he's happy and not in so much pain but on the other hand I risk leaving it too late. My other two were very clear cut
 
Ah I can't offer any advice cos it is an awful situ, but you know him best so do what is best for him and for you. I am sure others in similar situations can offer some advice, but good luck with whatever way you go.
 
melbiswas said:
I think you are having the cold feet that come with this decision.

This sounds to me like a horse that can't be kept comfortable for a length of time.
Perhaps it will be easier knowing that he wasn't in pain when he went.
I know I deeply regret not acting sooner for my boy who was in pain.
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This is my other fear. My beautiful old horse died/pts during an awful colic attack a few weeks after the vet suggested it might be time but I wasn't ready. (and he looked great)
 
poiuytrewq said:
totally, On one hand maybe its best to let him go now while he's happy and not in so much pain but on the other hand I risk leaving it too late. My other two were very clear cut
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What a horrid situation :( I really really feel for you! When it's clear cut, it doesn't seem as bad. You know it's their time and for some reason (for me at least) you can get peace from that. When Archie went, I didn't cry as much, because it was obvious to every single person involved that it really was his time.
But when you really don't know...that's when it gets tough. We thought it was Annie's time a few months ago and hey ho, she's still here and ran up the garden with me today! It was certainly not her time and we're all so glad we didn't let her go. With Holly the cat however, we did keep her going too long and it was cruel. We had taken her to the vets but he suggested we try a little longer and we did. Total mistake.

I can't help at all I'm afraid, but I wish you all the best, I really do! *hugs*
 
Well, he will be more comfortable on bute and soft ground and personally, I prefer if they go when they are happy, however hard it is ( and for the owner, this is tough)
I'd have a talk with your vet, if you are prepared to keep him comfortable for a bit longer. Winter is never good for joint pains though and from what you've written, you don't want to repeat last years stress.
 
Gosh what a tough decision! Truth is only you have the answer and as they say, better a day too early than a day too late. However, if it were one of mine I would probably postpone and see how things go. The moment they took a turn for the worse I would then have them pts immediately. So long as you are sure he is living a happy comfortable life. Best wishes to you on whatever you decide. X
 
poiuytrewq said:
I don't know, I guess he now looks as lame as a slightly foot sore horse who shoes might help?
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Ah I see. In your position, no I wouldn't shoe him. Wouldn't want to change anything. I would see how he goes.

If he is pottering about happier this week than last week I see no harm in putting off your decision for a short while. However after all this time it seems doubtful that this will be a permanent improvement.

What concerns me more is how difficult the uncertainty will be for you. You have made the decision for all the right reasons, but it's a difficult position to be in x
 
ozpoz said:
Well, he will be more comfortable on bute and soft ground and personally, I prefer if they go when they are happy, however hard it is ( and for the owner, this is tough)
I'd have a talk with your vet, if you are prepared to keep him comfortable for a bit longer. Winter is never good for joint pains though and from what you've written, you don't want to repeat last years stress.
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I don't want a repeat of last year your very right but I cant let that be a factor, its not his fault his a misery guts in winter o that my fields too small.
 
poiuytrewq said:
.

He's much more his slightly rude excitable self and is almost sound looking in walk.
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Almost sound in walk does not equate to a good quality of life imo, especially just going into winter, if we were coming out of winter, I might give different advice but under the circumstances, I would stick to your decision.
It is always hard to come to a decision when it isn't an emergency but you considered all the options, took all the circumstances, including your own health, into account and made the decisions in the best interests of the horse.
I do understand how you feel, we all question ourselves when we have to make momentous decisions, and when it so final it is even worse but I think you're doing the right thing.

Better a day too soon than an hour too late
 
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Many posters have said this week that their horses are feeling fresher than usual due to the grass, could it not be because of that? Even more so if he's been kept in a starvation paddock before now?

The things that are wrong with him won't have improved, even though outwardly he's brightened up. Don't put shoes on him.
I don't envy you at all, it's easy to sit behind a screen and be objective about it.
If I were in your shoes, I might cancel Thursday, but be aware that it might just mean he'll tell you he's ready to go on Friday. It's never easy, and even harder when you have so much time to think about it.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Almost sound in walk does not equate to a good quality of life imo, especially just going into winter, if we were coming out of winter, I might give different advice but under the circumstances, I would stick to your decision.
It is always hard to come to a decision when it isn't an emergency but you considered all the options, took all the circumstances, including your own health, into account and made the decisions in the best interests of the horse.
I do understand how you feel, we all question ourselves when we have to make momentous decisions, and when it so final it is even worse but I think you're doing the right thing.

Better a day too soon than an hour too late
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Agree - tough call OP, but I would say better to go when he is feeling well and you still have some sanity.
 
Oh bless, you must do what you feel best, i was going to have my horse pts 8years ago, it was all arranged untill the day before, she came sound i cancelled everything!!!!! 8 years later now at the age of 21 she is still with me, i let her have bute as and when i feel she needs it and she is comfy and happy, this year she is looking her age and when i feel its time i will do the right thing for her!!! the day i know will come and i dread even thinking about it!!! do what you heart and instinct tells you!! thought the post above is fab!!! and like wise i wish you all the best xxx
 
I think I would be tempted to ring the vet and talk it through with them. The BHS run a 'Friends at the End' helpline too if you want someone impartial who doesn't know you.

There are no rights with this decision, only the 'least wrong' option. I booked and cancelled several times with my old mare, and I was lucky that when we did make the decision she let me know that it was time. However when we were making the decision for two of our other oldies this year the vet did warn us that it is not always so clear cut - sometimes it is an accumulation of factors that individually wouldn't be such an issue, and indeed this was the case with our oldies. 'Better a day too early' is a bliddy hard thing to do when they look so well externally :(

xxxxxxx
 
Thanks EstherYoung, I looked up Friends at the end this afternoon actually- I think I might give them a call tomorrow, However this thread and its answers have given me more insight.
Same as you this is more a few smaller things that individually are cope-able with but a combination of everything made him unhappy.
 
Same as fuzzle. We flew across the Atlantic to have one of ours put to sleep. When I got there and saw her I didn't feel it was quite the time. We gave her a chance and she took it. She made so much of a recovery that we flew her over the Atlantic to remain with us forever. That was almost 10 years ago and she is still ticking along merrily now at 20 years old :smile3: Her time will come ... but not yet.
 
Has someone told you it would be expensive to treat the cushings? As treating it is probably only as expensive as shoeing.
If it were one of mine I would keep the horse going until I felt the horse did not have a decent life. Only you know how happy with life the horse is but treating the cushings could help with some of the other problems he has.
 
Sounds to me as if you are wanting rid of your horse for economic reasons which is fair enough, you are the one who has to look after him and pay for his keep......but bear in mind that you have to live with yourself after the deed is done and it's not always easy. Maybe wait a few weeks and see how things are before making a decision as it doesn't sound like you are ready to make the decision and there's no going back once you have ......
 
Its hard enough to come to that decision once, but it gets harder each time you have to consider it as you will always then be inclined to give him "just one more day, just in case he improves" which inevitably will make it likely that the final decision will be made a day too late. I have recently had a pony that picked up immensely before an arranged PTS, the owners were still happy that it was the right time; I wasn't sure if i had been too hasty. But you know what? That pony never suffered. And never will. Thats enough for me.

Good luck with your decision. I think with the cushings/lami on top of all the other issues I would PTS if i could not afford to give Prascend as this means that a repeat bout of laminitis is likely to occur which would result in unnecessary suffering.


ETA - Bonny, I'm not sure where you came up with that idea but I think that is a very tactless and thoughtless post. What a horrendous thing to say to anyone in a difficult situation. This is not a happy healthy horse who can easily live a pain free life. Finances play a part, but the welfare of the horse must always come before the owners sentimentality.
 
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I'm not being tactless, just realistic. the horse is only 12 and i think anyone who has to make that decision has to weigh everything up including finances and the approaching winter. it's easy if it's a clear cut decision but if not then it can be hard to live with yourself afterwards.
 
They tell you when they are ready to go.
That is what I have always believed and have seen things that IMO futher convince me of this.

For example my friends 16yr old pony. Had chronic laminitis, metabolic syndrome and heaps of melanomas. Everyone told them to put him down, but he was a happy, chirpy little sod and very cheeky. While he was content and not in pain, they were more than happy to retire him, manage his neumerous health issues and let him be a much loved paddock puff. January this year he took a turn, his laminitis flared up big time and he went off his feed. Because of this he also lost condition. When the laminitis got a little better, his appetite came back but he was not the same. He withdrew into himself, became depressed and although for the time being he was healthy, you could 100% tell he was ready to go and it was his time. Arrangements were made and he was sent over the rainbow bridge.
Here he is in late Nov/early Dec last year about 4 weeks before he was PTS.
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My friend was sad but knew he was in a better place and he was no longer suffering.

Does he seem like he is ready? If not then there is no harm waiting.
If you do decide to have him PTS this week, I am sure he will understand that you only want what is best for him and don't want him to suffer.

xx hugs, it's not an easy decision to make but whatever you decide, I am sure it will be the right one.
 
Ok thank you very much to all who have commented.
Bonny, financially yes it's very very tough- so tough that no I can't afford to treat the cushings. It's not a rediculously expensive thing to treat the problem being the tablets come in packs which cost £189 per pack. How long that lasts is dependant on dosage determined by regular blood tests.
I'm struggling to find my livery rent, farrier bill etc. I also have to take into account the cortisone for his fetlock and the fact I'm trying to get cash together to cortisone his back.
If I was at this point purely for financial reasons however the day he was x rated and a serious back problem confirmed I'd have made the call then, not decided to retire and spoil him instead.
This decision was a combination of him being in pain, and he has been in a lot of pain- no one would have questioned this a fortnight ago. But mainly I think he's unhappiness, his spark went. Even his eyes were sad. I know it's going to get worse again and the bit I find hard is knowing if I let him go back to that point or do it now whilst he's better.
I appreciate your point about the guilt I am going to feel that obviously anyway, if I was financially better off and had better land I could maybe help him more but I'm not, so yes I feel guilt.
 
Agree with this. I have a lame horse, she is much better on the softer ground. And as you say his back issues are still there... Think honestly about his quality of life. - is he satisfied / content with his life? Do you want be making this decision when it's in the midst of winter when he struggles with mud, cold, rain etc? Will he ever be sound, comfortable without bute? Maybe leave it a few more weeks but I suspect there is only one sensible decision at the end of the day. but he is not my horse and I don't know him...
Pearlsasinger said:
Almost sound in walk does not equate to a good quality of life imo, especially just going into winter, if we were coming out of winter, I might give different advice but under the circumstances, I would stick to your decision.
It is always hard to come to a decision when it isn't an emergency but you considered all the options, took all the circumstances, including your own health, into account and made the decisions in the best interests of the horse.
I do understand how you feel, we all question ourselves when we have to make momentous decisions, and when it so final it is even worse but I think you're doing the right thing.

Better a day too soon than an hour too late
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It is very hard, and as I said before there are no right decisions. What you’ve got here are three degenerative conditions which are only ever going to get worse, but only you know the horse and only you know where the line is.

We’ve had to make the decision for four of our oldies in the last two years (I’ve told the others they aren’t allowed to shuffle off this mortal coil for at least another 10 years as we’ve had more than our share of heartbreak)

With Joe, we knew the decision was coming before the winter, and we’d put the vet on notice that we’d need to make the call at some point. He was 25 with a number of issues. However, about a month before we’d envisioned making the decision he came down with an acute abscess and was very lame. So we rang the vet. If his last weeks were going to be him in pain then there was no point. The night after we said goodbye there was an early frost, the first of the winter, which would have made him stiff. He was always a canny booger and I reckon he made the decision easier for us.

With Lu, I’d booked and re-booked the appointment for years, but she was a right one for rallying round. She was well in her 30s and cushingoid – a bit of a veterinary marvel as she’d outlived everything that was diagnosed with cushings at the same time as her. I was terrified of getting it wrong for her, as she was such a tough, stoic old bat. Luckily she let me know in no uncertain terms – I got to the field one morning and just knew. And the relief of knowing that I’d got the timing right was immense.

Ol and H were this year, and it’s been a bit of a horrendous time as they were in different fields and H would be leaving his best friend behind so we had to ensure there was support for the remaining pones. We knew that neither would last the winter, but Ol looked so ruddy well it was really hard, one of the hardest things I’ve ever done – it really was the ‘better a day too early’ thing. We just had to think of how bad he’d got the previous winter (he was in his 20s, had arthritis, had become more prone to abscessing with age, and also had some mouth conformation issues which were getting worse with age and which made him choke even with good dental care) and think that it was better to do it when we did, in the summer, in the field that he loved and where he was settled, with the sun on his back, than in the middle of winter when he’s cold and wet and lame. And then H was 27 and had been getting increasingly stiff which broke my heart – again, the thought of finding him down in the field one day in the cold and wet of winter and unable to get up was my ultimate dread. He hadn’t been lame as such, just stiff, but he’d started to struggle with his weight, and on the morning of his final vet appointment he took a step back and it was the first time I’d ever seen him ‘ow’ with his arthritis through the bute so I knew I’d made the right call. The following day it rained a lot for the first time in a while and got very slippy – just the sort of weather that I’d worry about him being able to get up after rolling.

I think with a younger horse particularly, it is never going to feel ‘right’. It has to be your decision and it has to be one that you can live with. I’ll finish my post with something that someone said to me when I was considering Ol and H’s futures. The day that this decision becomes easy, the day that you stop agonising over it, the day that it doesn’t affect you, that is the day you need to stop keeping horses. The fact that you are worried about whether you are doing the right thing or not and the fact that this is breaking your heart, it just proves that you are a caring human being who will do the best thing for the horse, whatever that is.
 
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