Horse challenging groom

[LadyGascoyne]

One of mine has decided to push the boundaries with one of our freelancers.

She has apparently tried to barge a few times, and flung legs about when she’s been excited about life. This is usually around feeding time or when being caught to come in from the field.

The issue is, the horse is an absolute lamb with me and with the other freelancer. I can’t recreate the behavior at all. This particular lady has a very soft, quiet demeanor. The horse is lovely, and isn’t nasty, she’s just young and clearly testing this person.

I’ve suggested to the groom that she wears a hat at all times, stands straight and tall, owns her own personal space and uses a strong, low voice. I have asked her to consistently ensure that every interaction is on her terms - even the small things. I’ve suggested she practices giving instructions like back-up and wait in a setting she is comfortable with, and does some ground work in the pens. However, this is a big ask for quite a timid person.

I’m bringing horse in now, and feeding most meals but there are occasions where I can’t be around to feed (hence paying for help) so I do need to resolve this. Groom is fully insured, has worked on pro yards and is used to handling much bigger horses. She recently lost confidence with someone else’s horse though.

My thoughts are:

Ask groom not to handle horse at all, and hire someone else because I do need help. (Other freelancer is only certain days).

Persevere with what we are doing and hope it improves.

Go into overdrive on developing their relationship and actually get her to ride horse, maybe to some clinics with horse and really push them to work through issues. Horse is actually fabulous when she’s ‘got’ you. She’s just a bit daft.

What does everyone think?

 

[Ratface]

I'd probably start to look around for someone else. Old Horse has serious form for pushing boundaries with new staff who come over as anxious in response to his snake faces and opportunistic barging. One growl or a sharp dig in the body with a finger puts him back in his box, but if someone didn't know him and his "I'm a Big Bad Stallion" mode (he's a 16hh gelding) would probably find him intimidating.

 

[millitiger]

Find another freelancer.
As nice as she is, I wouldn't be paying someone to put bad habits in my horse and I would also worry about her safety.

 

[94lunagem]

I would start to look for someone else.

Possibly through no faults on either side something isn’t working, but I’m afraid when I’m away from the yard I need confidence that my horses are in good hands and both they and my help are safe.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I'd really be looking for another more confident groom, particularly as the horse is behaving well with 2 out of 3 of you.
It doesn't take long for annoying or bad behaviour to become a very irritating habit or descend into dangerous behaviour.

If I'd permitted a nervous or slightly non reactive person to handle the late CF that I had 10 years ago, he would have been back to a monster within a very short time. He needed consistent firm handling with boundaries and if he had these, then was a delight.

 

[ihatework]

Seriously, a freelancer that cannot manage mildly testing behaviour themselves is not worth having on your books.

 

[planete]

It is too much of a risk to let her go on handling this horse, both for her safety and the horse's education. It is not the way she behaves that is the problem, it is the way she feels to the horse. Teaching her how to act would only work if it changed how she feels around the horse. They can hear our heartbeat and read lack of confidence a mile off, regardless of how we act.

 

[Palindrome]

I would wait a bit to see if it settles, perhaps a week or two. The horse isn't a youngster?

 

[dottylottie]

i’d give it a couple of weeks and really put the emphasis on her being a bit more stern, but also stress to her that she not feel the need to put herself at risk. maybe have her come when you’re around one day, just so you can see what’s going on and the severity of it?

i wouldn’t let her go in a hurry if she’s otherwise great, but equally wouldn’t want to put her at risk or allow the behaviour to worsen.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I would wait a bit to see if it settles, perhaps a week or two. The horse isn't a youngster?

Not terribly young but exceptionally green. She still does foal mouthing and plays a lot. She’s very submissive too, so it’s purely exuberance and excitement about doing something. She will mature when we do more with her but she’s needed a lot of box rest and slow rehab when we got her, and was barely schooled before that so she’s very immature.

She’s going out with an older mare in the near future which I hope is good for her development but I’m just waiting for that mare to be a little sounder first (another rehab horse).

It is just so hard to find someone reliable, on time, who is neat and respectful of property, is nice to the horses and will do the mucking out as happily as the fun horsey bits. But I do think this horse may not be a good fit for this freelancer.

 

[twiggy2]

I love that your qilling to work with the groom to improve this and to help them get their confidence back, part of me thinks a freelance groom that cannot handle this is not worth having but maybe we all need a little help and support sometimes.
How does yhe groom feel about doing a workshop or training day or 2 with the horse?
Speak to the groom amd go from there..I think its a great offer of training for the groom and maybe they will have a great relationship with the horse once they have an understanding.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Have you witnessed the issues first hand? Maybe a little support to assist your groom to be assertive and keep her heart rate down, but beyond that ....... she is supposed to be helping you, not the other way round.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Maybe just limit what she does with the horse for now and try and find someone else.

I find it hard to understand how anyone could struggle to do your horses though they don't look troublesome at all.

As a freelancer you will be expected to deal with all sorts of different horses how would she cope with a really difficult one.

My 2 are fairly easy but they are quite clever and know if someone does not really know what they are doing and will take advantage of that sometimes, they are not nasty but they can do silly things and being Arab's they tend to suss people out fairly quickly.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Have you witnessed the issues first hand? Maybe a little support to assist your groom to be assertive and keep her heart rate down, but beyond that ....... she is supposed to be helping you, not the other way round.

No, if I’m even on the yard, the horse is an absolute angel.

When I say I can’t recreate the issue; the horse is excellent in-hand. She has learned to walk with her nose low, on a loose rein and to engage when you pick up contact. She backs up, turns on the forehand and know the first steps of turn on the haunches from the ground - moving the shoulders away.

She moves across for leg yield and half-pass in-hand purely by me directing her by raising my hand differently. She will bring her shoulders in off the track depending on how I place myself, for shoulder-in, and she gets travers and is cottoning on to renvers in-hand. She’s not at all bargey or in my space.

She comes to be caught and drops her nose into the head collar. And she whinnies every time she sees me so I know she’s happy to see me, she isn’t evasive at all.

She might be a bit clumsy if she spooks but she isn’t very spooky. And she can get a bit high - above the contact - when she comes in and it’s windy but that’s all really.

I’m at an absolute loss as to what the dynamic is that the horse is scaring her. But I can’t have the horse scare her or for the horse to be handled by someone who is scared of her, it’s a recipe for disaster.

 

[Surbie]

It depends on whether you want to keep the freelancer, and if you have the time to work with her on managing your horse, in my opinion. If no to either question then I'd look for someone else.

I absolutely get how differently horses behave depending on who they are with. My horse took himself to the yard carpark several times in the past because the (very competent) friends bringing him in didn't listen to me about what he needed.

 

[stangs]

No, if I’m even on the yard, the horse is an absolute angel.

Presumably because the groom feels safer with you on the horse and the horse senses it.

Given that the timing of the behaviour is predictable, can you ask her to set up her phone somewhere so she can film the interaction and send it to you?

 

[maya2008]

I would just look for a new groom. This is a professional whose time you are paying for, not a sharer. They should be able to do the job.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Presumably because the groom feels safer with you on the horse and the horse senses it.

Given that the timing of the behaviour is predictable, can you ask her to set up her phone somewhere so she can film the interaction and send it to you?

Great idea! I’ll see if we can move a camera to the field. We have them all over the yard but not over the winter field.

 

[Wishfilly]

I agree that filming the behaviour could be really helpful. I do get what people are saying about finding another freelancer, but depending on where you are based, someone who is reliable, on time and mucks out in the way you like can be hard to find!

If you like the freelancer in all other ways, maybe give them a few weeks trying to put firmer boundaries in place and see what happens?

 

[Equi]

I know who I would and wouldn’t let handle my boy when he’s in one of his moods, and a quiet person is not going to get anywhere near him. Unless the groom can learn firmness (you either can or you can’t) they won’t be suitable to handle your horse.