Horse ducking "behind the bit"

[Pr1nce]

Hi All,

This is a plea for help/advice before i give up winter hacking forever!

My horse (only in winter and only when we are in the direction of home) curls his neck, puts his nose on his chest and jogs/trots/tranters the whole way home. I have practically no control when he does this, have tried loose reins/asking for a contact/doing nothing all to no avail.

Yesterday i actually went round the set-aside 5 times trying to settle him and the only way to achieve walk was by turning in the opposite direction to home, by which time my back was killing me and he was in such a tizz that i just went back to the yard and lunged him - he then spent a good 15 mins cantering around me not listening at all to my slow down commands, he was blowing and all frothy under his breastplate by the time i convinced him to walk.

He is fine in the school, and in the summer is a delight to hack. This behaviour happens both in company with a steady horse and alone. I'm getting really frustrated with the whole thing as i have back problems as it is and when i'm getting constantly bounced/pulled it is agony for a few days after.

Any ideas for stopping this behaviour? He is up to date with teeth/physio etc which i am going to get re-checked as well as saddle fit but as i say, this only happens when he is facing towards home. He also knows when he is on the home stretch of a circular ride and it makes no difference if we are road hacking or on bridleways/set-aside

 

[wren123]

Mmm, that's a hard one, have you tried just circling him and only going forward once he is walking, in the hope that he gets bored of this behaviour.
Something else possibly worth trying is on the hack, constantly work with him to get his attention, so walk 8 strides, then halt, then halt to trot, then continue mixing it up constantly, also you could do leg yielding, but really work on getting him listening to you and not getting into a state.

 

[Pr1nce]

Thanks for your answer! yes i have tried circling but it just makes him even more fizzy and he starts throwing himself around....halting on a hack is a whole other issue and something else i have to face back the opposite way we are travelling to achieve, it makes road junctions interesting and binds me to only being able to road hack in company! Again, he is better with this in the summer when he has more turnout and work! I know it is more than likely a training issue but i'm just losing hope with what else to try

 

[LaurenBay]

My Horse did the same, how is he in hand? the second mine jogged I would turn her round and started trotting the other direction. It took months of this before it hit home.

 

[Pr1nce]

Fine in hand, and usually voice activated on the lunge.

That is kind of what i was trying to do yesterday until my back gave out and i had to give in which i'm sure doesn't help

I have a copy of Kelly Marks Perfect Manners which i am going to pick up again and start working through, i figure it can't hurt and may in fact help.

 

[LaurenBay]

If he is fine in hand and your back is hurting I'd be tempted to get off and make him walk nicely in hand for a while. Once he has settled in a walk I would remount.

 

[Pr1nce]

That is something i haven't tried! Thank you, i'll give it a bash

 

[poiuytrewq]

Does he know leg yield and shoulder in etc?
I had a TB who was much like this. As soon as he realised we were heading home it started. I found it best to keep his brain occupied by doing basic schooling and it really worked.

 

[Pr1nce]

He does, i'll try that from the off next time. Once this behaviour has started there is just no communication with him

 

[LaurenBay]

Only reason I say in hand is because he could be feeding off your feelings.

When my mare used to do it, it made me quite nervous, which in turn made her 10 times worse. I began to panic about it before she was even doing it in the end, which made her worse. In the end I dismounted on the way back, I felt more confident on the ground, she was very well behaved. I let her settle and then remounted once I had calmed down again. In the end I was hardly doing any walking and gradually phased it out.

 

[Sukistokes2]

When my mare started this I stopped it by turning her around and going away from home. Yes for a few rides it was a pain but it soon cured her. As soon as she started walking to fast, I’d half halt her, she would ignore that and start jogging, so I’d turn her around and start walking away from home. Once she settled we’d turn back for home. Yes she played up but I was stubborn about it and the message went in. If you don’t feel confident about winning the argument then get a professional in. This is as much bogging off as whooshing off in canter and if he gets away with it then it could escalate, happening further away from home and him getting faster.

 

[ihatework]

It’s a real PITA behaviour and difficult to crack once ingrained.
Firstly get him off any hard feed and just feed hay.
Then give him as much work as you can manage.

It’s a difficult balance between working them more, getting them fitter and potentially making things worse - but also you often see some traits of this kind of behaviour when they are actually tired/not fit enough and then just run off adrenaline.

I think I’d be inclined to increase his workload. Then maybe work him quite hard in the school and use a short circular hack as a cool down. Keep him on the bridle and move him around laterally if there is even a hint of tension - but if you feel him relax try and let the rein out.

If he fizzes up it would be interesting to see what he does if you get off and lead

 

[D66]

Mine stopped doing this after we got rid of the ulcers.

 

[Pr1nce]

Thanks all, a few more things for me to try!

D66, i had considered ulcers but would it really manifest only pointing towards home? he walks out like a lamb on the way out and is fine schooling

 

[JillA]

I tried turning mine around but it just increased her frustration. When she started the jogging, I pushed her into a proper trot for a few strides then asked for walk. Work on the relaxation at walk and when she started the jogging, did the same again. Eventually she got the message, but it is really about rushing home (what I call out like a slug and back like a rocket!).
So change his mindset about how attractive home is - instead of dismounting and taking off his tack then feeding him, put him to work when you get home. In the school, in a field, wherever you can, do some trot circles and serpentines. Only then does he get to where he wants to be - stable with a good meal inside him. He'll pretty soon stop rushing home!

 

[D66]

Thanks all, a few more things for me to try!

D66, i had considered ulcers but would it really manifest only pointing towards home? he walks out like a lamb on the way out and is fine schooling

She loved going out for a hack, but combination of mild ulcers and a tiny wolf tooth (despite various and regular dentist visits) resulted in lots of "jiggling", the jogging was usually reserved for the homeward journey.

 

[Annagain]

If you have a circular route and it happens as he's heading for home could you keep going on the circular route so he doesn't associate going home with the ride finishing? Just keep him going round and round in circles until he's calm at all points on the route. Then take him home but go straight in the school and do five more minutes before stopping.

 

[Pr1nce]

I'll try all these ideas out and then speak to the vet if there is no improvement

Is there anything over the counter that would help with ulcers/not do any harm if it isn't in the meantime or does it need to be diagnosed and prescribed by the vet? lots of conflicting info online and obviously most companies are saying their products do the job...

 

[D66]

We went for an organic, low sugar, no additives feed with a stomach calming supplement, Thunderbrooks base mix, chaff, their Ulcagon and liquid gold . It was a bit of a shock putting it in the bucket the first time because there was so little, just a cupful of mix and a handful of chaff. After a while I changed the chaff to fast fibre which isn't organic, etc but it didn't seem to bother her.
There was a difference in her demeanour and behaviour overnight and that was why I had her scoped.
As you say all the feed companies have their own products which may or may not work for your horse, this combination was suggested by a new trainer who works with horses with issues and according to them would eliminate as many feed issues as possible in one go. All together the feeds cost £130.00 ish, a lot of money but it did make a difference and was the beginning of getting her sorted.

 

[Pr1nce]

We went for an organic, low sugar, no additives feed with a stomach calming supplement, Thunderbrooks base mix, chaff, their Ulcagon and liquid gold . It was a bit of a shock putting it in the bucket the first time because there was so little, just a cupful of mix and a handful of chaff. After a while I changed the chaff to fast fibre which isn't organic, etc but it didn't seem to bother her.
There was a difference in her demeanour and behaviour overnight and that was why I had her scoped.
As you say all the feed companies have their own products which may or may not work for your horse, this combination was suggested by a new trainer who works with horses with issues and according to them would eliminate as many feed issues as possible in one go. All together the feeds cost £130.00 ish, a lot of money but it did make a difference and was the beginning of getting her sorted.

Thank You, i don't know much at all about ulcers so this is all new to me! Is it worth calling a feed company advice line to discuss? Or in the long run it may be cheaper to just get the vet and get a definitive answer. He's not insured so i just have to be careful about running up a big bill

 

[JillA]

Basically you need to
1. reduce acidity in the gut (low sugar diet since it is the sugar which turns to acid, that includes starch in cereals) and something such as bicarb, or one of the proton pump inhibitors loke omeprazole or isomeprazole which is in Nexium
2. line the stomach with something such as a mucous (slippery elm or aloe vera are recommended, I used micronised linseed)
3. improve the gut bacteria with a probiotic such as yeasacc and
4. ensure there is always fibre in the gut, it is never empty.

Lots of good information on here https://equinenutritionnerd.com/201...tions-for-stomach-ulcer-treatment-prevention/

 

[D66]

Thank You, i don't know much at all about ulcers so this is all new to me! Is it worth calling a feed company advice line to discuss? Or in the long run it may be cheaper to just get the vet and get a definitive answer. He's not insured so i just have to be careful about running up a big bill

I suppose you just have to keep trying things to see what works. In all fairness in your situation I would probably ask a professional rider to school the horse out on a hack before changing feed.

 

[Jo1987]

Does he have hay in the field or just in his stable overnight? I ask as he is only doing this in winter - mine is definitely more keen if he is thinking about his belly, although he marches from start to finish as he knows that if he dawdles at the start it will take longer! 😂 If he’s had a munch on his haynet for half an hour or so before he’s not in such a rush.

 

[Pr1nce]

He has haylage in the field, there is just enough grass to nibble on but not much more and he has ad lib haylage overnight. I do feed before i ride as i read that it's better for them to have something in their tummy.

I think i'll have my next lesson on a hack and see what my instructor thinks, then vet if needed after that

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yeah I found it best to start before he started messing round. I was stunned how well it worked!