Horse Falls at Barbury today?

ElphabaFae

ElphabaFae

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Just wanted to know if anyone has any information on any of the horses that fell at the second water today at Barbury. Me and a friend were there at the water and I think we saw maybe 12 riders jump the water and 9 of those fell off. The horses would stumble upon landing in the water and the riders had no hope of staying on!

The two I want information on though, I dont know the horse or the rider unfortunately but, the first horse, fell in the water, appeared to stud itself in the stomach near the girth, it galloped off bleeding and ran off in a panic, straight through the rope fence marking the course and off over a hill. The horse wasn't lame but definately freely bleeding as the rope and one of the posts was bloodstained and there was blood over the grass.

The second horse fell in the water, was lame on the off-fore, but was weight-bearing. The screens were put up and the horse walked up into the horse ambulance, but we had to clear the area for the ambulance, so not sure on the status on the horse.

Does anyone know who the horses/riders were and if they are ok? Particularly the horse that galloped off bleeding everywhere :( Hopefully it was just a small cut that was bleeding a far bit but we never got an update on either!
 
9 out of 12 fell!!!:eek: That's 75%. Surely the TA was involved - that sounds like something is fundamentally wrong/unsafe?

Edited: Ooohhh, hold on just read eventingnation and they dropped the jump out so something definitely wasn't right
 
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I watched two fall off in the water last year - it strikes me that they are a bit gung ho going into it as not a fence to back them off and just a plain but rather large drop. Watched Will faudree on EN jump it and his horse was cautious and fine. Maybe Chatter1 can enlighten us as has done it.
 
They seemed to jump in fine, but stumbled upon hitting the water, not sure if it was anything under the water, but one the rider's who fell off went back into the water to see if there was anything in there that could cause the horses to fall.
 
I was sat on the opposite bank spectating with a pair of binoculars - whilst I couldn't see exactly what was going on myself, due to the large crowd around the water, I was sat next to an owner when their rider came over to announce that he wasn't going to go through the water. He said something along the lines of it looks too dangerous, they seem to have some kind of dye in the water and the horses are almost seeming to expect it to be very deep and are consequently landing very hard and just crumpling up. I suppose that would explain (at least) two getting studded. Apparently (at the time of the horse being taken off in the ambulance box) there were three back at the stables injured from the water jump.

I was quite glad when they took it out, not least because a horse I know was due to go round later. I've never been to Barbury before so have no idea myself how it was before.

I assume they'll be taking a good look at the jump before next year.
 
I have to say that I came away very saddened by what I saw.

If a horse didn't fall at the water it pecked badly. I was amazed that the jump judges did not consider checking the ground in the pond after the amount of falls. It was obvious to me that the ground was unlevel and causing a problem. I left as I didn't want my child to see any more falls. As I left the last horse came through, fell and went off in the ambulance and they removed the jump from the course.

Why o why did it have to come to a serious injury before anybody did something?

I hope the horses and riders are all ok and would also like to hear if anybody has any news. :confused:
 
Sounds like a harrowing day for many people. Funny thing is, water fences always attract a crowd as I think everyone will admit to enjoying someone getting a ducking, but generally only if the rider is getting wet, not the horse!

Hope the horses have nothing more than supercifial wounds.
 
I saw the studded horse leaving Barbury in the ambulance. Screens were up in the warm-up and we had to wait while it was loaded. It had a lot of bandaging around its chest/in between its legs. It looked heavily sedated, and left the event in the horse ambulance. From what I heard over the weekend, the water was pretty shallow, and due to the dye, and the day was very still so no movement on the water. A lot over the weekend would land quite flat in the water and have a wobble getting out...

If anyone knows anything, please can we hear!!
 
Firstly the horse that was loaded into the ambulance before the fence was taken out had studded itself. The breastplate was quite tight and as the horse moved it pressed on the wound/bruising and was obviously very sore. Once the saddle was off he became much more comfortable. The screens were put up in accordance with policy rather than to hide anything.
I was told the other horse that ran off will be ok.
The fence was the same as it had been for the last 5 years - the fence before was slightly different and there was no fence out. Gill Rolton who was on the ground jury walked in the water with bare feet and it was fine and ankle depth so not too deep.
The problem was that they were running in reverse order so the less experienced were going 1st. Most of these early horses had large scores in the show jumping. The fence was a small log with a big drop 1 stride after a "hippo" so effectively a log. The previous fence was a spread 5/6 strides earlier. The horses were jumping the log into the water like it was an oxer rather than dropping over it so their parabola was making them land too steep and over-balance. Mark Todd and Will Faudree made it look easy but they are very experienced so, although their horses were not so seasoned, they more than made up for it. When a group of high level riders go early then the others get confidence that the course is rideable.
Some riders at the start got a little twitchy but Francis Whittington talked to them and pointed out that it is a competition and they had to take responsibility for whether they wanted to run or not.
 
I don't see why they didn't take that jump out earlier when it was first said about the number of falls, I saw the second horse before it was loading into the trailer but not the first.
Before I moved to the crocodile water I saw two horses come towards the arena with a blood patch by the girth and down the front leg.
 
As Oldvic says, the earlier combinations on the course are generally the less experienced due to running in reverse order which could have been a contributing factor. One of them that we say fall (not one of the injured) had already broken a frangible pin at an earlier fence, came in with the girth end of its martingale hanging loose and also pulled off an over reach boot between the spread and the hippo before crumpling on landing in the water.

It does beg the question of whether or not its a good idea to have experienced combos on the course early on thus making the course look jumpable and give the less experienced more confidence and belief in the ridability of the course.

It's a tough call making that decision to remove a jump, especially when it's a jump that's been in the course previously and appears to be fairly innocuous.

ETA does anyone know what the final placings were as the results aren't up yet?
 
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I was more worried about the horse that ran off in a panic, although I know superfical (sp?) wounds can bleed a lot, the fact the rope was covered in blood and one of the post holding the rope up was covered in blood on both sides and the horse disappeared off over a hill somewhere. Annoying there was not even an update to say they caught the horse, well not that I heard. Although they did replace the rope. There was quite a bit of blood on the grass.

As long as everyone was ok, that is all that matters!
 
Agree with Oldvic water was very similiar to last year similiar colouring etc, it can give a false sense of difficulty with the inexperienced lower place combinations going first. Also if people know there are mistakes it easy to over ride rather than then just let them drop in. Similiar happened at Tatts last year but these falls were well spread out as classs was mixed order. It is very difficult though to decide where to drawthe line and take a fence out, it was probably the right decision but I bet if we had seen the top 40 jump it there would have been little problem.

Hope all the horses that hurt themselves are ok.
 
[QUOTE
It does beg the question of whether or not its a good idea to have experienced combos on the course early on thus making the course look jumpable and give the less experienced more confidence and belief in the ridability of the course.

It's a tough call making that decision to remove a jump, especially when it's a jump that's been in the course previously and appears to be fairly innocuous.

ETA does anyone know what the final placings were as the results aren't up yet?[/QUOTE]

I think there will be a rethink over the reverse order next year.

Too right that it is a very tough call to take a fence out. All the pros and cons have to be weighed up and causes thought about. In this case the best riders and horses were still to come. It can change the level of the course.

Pippa won. Piggy 2nd. Laura 3rd.
 
All this is very interesting especially with current FEI proposals to discuss changing the order of the phases. I have some spectacular photos from last year of an Italian completely over jumping into the water at Barbury and getting wet.
 
Thanks, sorry that Laura didn't hold on to her lead but I imagine time must have been pretty influential and pleased for Pippa and Piggy. Wish we could have stayed til the end but left about 4.30 to get back in time to ride the mare.

I think S_J hit the nail on the head when she said that it's all too easy to over ride out of anxiety (possibly stemming from experience or lack of) when there have been earlier mistakes and subsequently create an issue out of a jump where there shouldn't be one.
 
MegaBeast said:
Thanks, sorry that Laura didn't hold on to her lead but I imagine time must have been pretty influential and pleased for Pippa and Piggy. Wish we could have stayed til the end but left about 4.30 to get back in time to ride the mare.

I think S_J hit the nail on the head when she said that it's all too easy to over ride out of anxiety (possibly stemming from experience or lack of) when there have been earlier mistakes and subsequently create an issue out of a jump where there shouldn't be one.
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Yes, the time was very influential. There were 4 inside - Andrew Nicholson on Armada and Tim Price on Sporting Hero for NZ, Elizabeth Power on Kilpatrick River for Ireland and Francis Whittington on Easy Target for GB. Quite a few others looked like they were trying for it while others were out for a clear round.

I totally agree that S_J is right - I think they were thinking of getting into the water rather than HOW they got in.
 
The last horse to fall (screens put up at the fence for), is sore, but hopefully going to be ok. He was very winded so it did look more traumatic than it was.

Having watched every single fall at that fence, I do think that people were riding it much too fast (whatever happend to a coffin canter?!), but having said that, when you have a related distance, to a biggish table and the ground is running away from you, its all very easy to say that when you are not on board yourself! However, Mark Todd made it look easy.
I did think that the dye in the water was making it deceptive for the horses - it was blue/green and my impression is that a lot of horses were jumping off like they were jumping onto grass - they didn't back themselves off at all. The log should also have maybe been larger - being so small it didn't back the horses off at all, and it made what was a very large drop into the water look deceptively easy.

Unfortunately - whatever the cause, when you have that many horse falls, SOMETHING is wrong, whether that is the riding or the jump, and ultimately, we have to protect the horses from the consequences. We were there to watch one of our clients jump round with a mare who we are doing ET work with, she decided to pull out after being held on the course - yet again, and I have to say, I'm relieved, I wasn't looking forward to having to see a horse I know going through that fence. The riders also I think raised concerns, and its a shame the fence wasn't pulled sooner. I hate to see horses 'punished' for jumping boldly.
 
LEC said:
All this is very interesting especially with current FEI proposals to discuss changing the order of the phases. I have some spectacular photos from last year of an Italian completely over jumping into the water at Barbury and getting wet.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure that the FEI is thinking of changing the order of the phases - there is a choice of xc or sj 1st so there is not much to change as the dressage will stay 1st.

Every year there have been 1 or 2 get a ducking in the Barbury water early on in the class before it then rides very easily once the more experienced start.
 
Touchwood said:
They couldn't have had a bigger log as then the drop would have been more than maximum. If there is nothing to back the horses up then the rider has to do something. They have had dye in that water every year and it hasn't affected the horses so I'm not sure that had a bearing.
I absolutely agree that horses shouldn't be punished for being bold but then it is down to the rider to present the horse at the fence as correctly as possible. Most fences can create a bad picture if not ridden correctly. That is the rider's responsibility and theirs alone. Some riders did voice concerns at the start earlier but the rider rep ( Francis Whittington) told them to decide for themselves whether to run or not and not to spoil the competition. It was not the rider's influence that prompted the ground jury to take the fence out.
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So it is a fence that inexperianced 3* combinations are likly to fall at, thats ok then, including a pair that came 2nd at Blair last year? What was the ground jurys resaon for taking the fence out if it wasnt riders concerns?
 
I was the official photographer at Barbury (as i was last year) - last year 2 riders fell and they were fairly late in the order.

Last year the fence before the water complex inc the hippo was a tricky skinny, thus backing the horses off and slowing their overall approach, this year it was a sloping table, and then either a straight line of 4 strides, or a bending line of 5 into the hippo, i stride drop. the water was also dyed the same colour as this year.
it should also be noted that none of the water complexes are permanent , they are filled for the event, and that part of the water is not used in either the novice or 2 star tracks as they run across the water, not along it

That change resulted in the table being jumped at pace, thus throwing off the stride length into the hippo, which was then over jumped, resulting in a jump into the water rather then the subtle drop from last year.

Lucinda Fredrick's walked and liaised with the TA and the FEI and agreed that was causing the bulk of the problems, but at the end of the day we all want the horse and rider home safe

The water before with an alligator before and in the water also caught out a few, as did the rather massive open corner inc Mary King
 
When a fence is omitted for the rest of the competitors how do you fairly work rot results? Hope all horses are fine and make a full recovery
 
The optimum time is adjusted to fit the new course layout - not sure how they work it out, but that is what they do

It's probably for this reason that the reverse order will stay as the runners going first are in no real danger of challenging for the places
 
I also was there when the last horse through the water fell, it was Coolys Luxury ridden by Tom Crisp. The horse is very bruised with a haematoma and is being reassessed soon, fingers crossed for him. Reports say he studded himself, when I first saw the fall I thought he'd broken his off-fore the way he was immediately holding it!

Bank on Louie unseated Rosie Fry and suffered serious soft tissue damage in a wound to the chest after running through the string stakes marking out the galloping lanes. He was treated on site before being taken to hospital, where he currently is. Hopefully he too will make a recovery.

Ludwig Svennerstal's Livingstone II completed the course but was found to be lame at the finish. He was transported by ambulance where he was found to be bruised but not seriously injured.

Gaby Cooke's Sir Roscoe was another found to be lame I *think*, yet he then returned home afterwards after being seemingly sound.

All riders are fine and I do believe those are the only horses with injuries.

Not a great day for those at Barbury. The water had been dyed (as in previous years where little or no issues have occured), yet apparently the sun glare on it was possibly confusing the horses - it certainly looked deeper than it really was and many horses literally flew into it. Completely the right decision to take it out in my opinion, if it had been sooner then Coolys Luxury (the only horse fall of the day) wouldn't have fell. Shame as they were actually deliberating over taking it out before Tom came round, yet decided against it.

Even without the water though the course still proved challenging and there were an obscure amount of falls. I can't pinpoint why.
 
I think most of the riders at the start were unsettled and wanted it out after the third horse fell, Sarah refused to start after the course was reopened until the rider rep or someone was spoken to ... sadly Francis did not want to hear any concerns and just came down to the start to say that he had looked at it and it was fine it was just the inexperienced horses that were falling. It would be bad for the sport for it to be taken out and if you didn’t like it don’t start was the gist from what I heard.
 
By taking out the fence, that is an admission that there was a problem. I disagree that it was inexperienced horses/riders that fell (most had over 100 points and had completed CCI 3* like Bramham/Blair), and that is no excuse, after all everyone has qualified and deserves to be there.
If they had kept the fence in the competition i wonder how many of the top placed riders would suffer the same problem, i would be willing to bet that many would have. In reality what would happen is that half the field would have withdrawn. Its a shame the ground jury decided to wait so long before taking out the fence, its tough decision but poor form. According to the BE website there was only 1 horse fall on the day, hmmm is that so the stats look better? either that or the fence judges need to check the photo evidence
 
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