Horse fighting in China

If one complies with the 5 freedoms, in particular the one that states;
'Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind.'
then could one not argue that these horses are being allowed to fully express natural behaviour i.e. fighting for reproductive rights....and therefore are being kept in the most 'natural' way possible?
S
grin.gif
 
I think it is really bad, but I also see your point, in a way.

I also think my horse thinks he's a stallion!! He wants to have fights like that with everyone!
frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is really bad, but I also see your point, in a way.

I also think my horse thinks he's a stallion!! He wants to have fights like that with everyone!
frown.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

grin.gif
I thought I would just be shouted down...completely. But if you think about it, we focus on a horse's physical health...so we don't put them in situations where they interact to avoid injuries...this also coincides with our desire to ride a sound horse.
If all the horses at a yard with individual turnout suddenly had their fences removed and were all turned out together on the same land area...would they choose to stay isolated and single? I think they'd choose to be in one large herd, albeit with a bit of pecking order fighting initially.
We are denying them the right to express normal behaviour and to achieve good mental health to prioritise physical health.
S
grin.gif
 
Agree with yellowpony, I cant see how this can be seen as 'living in a natural way'(ie tied on ropes and mismatched etc). Its contrived totally for human 'fun' , nothing else.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Agree with yellowpony, I cant see how this can be seen as 'living in a natural way'(ie tied on ropes and mismatched etc). Its contrived totally for human 'fun' , nothing else.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the ropes weren't there, would it be ok? If they were in a pen?
If the stallions were part of a wild herd...would it be ok for the spectators to be bussed out to watch them?
S
grin.gif
 
That's not normal behaviour! Being put in a small ring, with an in-heat mare presented to them and then "Horses that do not immediately engage in battle are whipped, or gunshots are fired to provoke them. The stallion left standing is declared the winner."

Sorry, but that to me is not natural in any way. Stallions in the wild fight, of course they do - but they have the choice and also have the choice of getting away if they want to.

They are also bred to be agressive! Natural???? Ummm.....
 


[/ QUOTE ]
If the ropes weren't there, would it be ok? If they were in a pen?
If the stallions were part of a wild herd...would it be ok for the spectators to be bussed out to watch them?
S
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

right....? but theyre not. its not natural if the horses have been put in that position by humans.

if the stallions were part of a wild herd then that would be natural and naturally one could get away if it wanted to because it wouldnt have a rope round its neck in a pen?

are you for real? is that you veiw on dog fighting too then?

turning horses out together is not something to be compared to this...
 
i found a video on youtube about it, they have not got a link straight to it but if you type in this ....Horse fighting - South Korea, you should find it..
 
[ QUOTE ]
That's not normal behaviour! Being put in a small ring, with an in-heat mare presented to them and then "Horses that do not immediately engage in battle are whipped, or gunshots are fired to provoke them. The stallion left standing is declared the winner."

Sorry, but that to me is not natural in any way. Stallions in the wild fight, of course they do - but they have the choice and also have the choice of getting away if they want to.

They are also bred to be agressive! Natural???? Ummm.....

[/ QUOTE ]

But it isn't natural to race, jump round XC courses, carry a rider... or many of the other things we make them do for our pleasure, all of which carry a physical risk.
This fighting carries a physical risk, but is equally for the pleasure of the spectator.
So what makes one better than the other?
S
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

right....? but theyre not. its not natural if the horses have been put in that position by humans.
<font color="blue"> You could say the same about SJ/XC/Dressage and all the other many 'disciplines' </font>
if the stallions were part of a wild herd then that would be natural and naturally one could get away if it wanted to because it wouldnt have a rope round its neck in a pen?
<font color="blue"> While I take the point about the rope, pen, in 'nature' stallions often do injure each other fatally - is this acceptable? </font>
are you for real? is that you veiw on dog fighting too then?
<font color="blue"> None of us are real. I'm a virtual Satanist.
grin.gif
And I don't believe you exist. </font>
turning horses out together is not something to be compared to this...

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> Why not? Who says what is or isn't comparable. I am sure we can compare, and discuss, anything we like on HHO. </font>

<font color="blue"> S
grin.gif
</font>
 
<font color="blue"> You could say the same about SJ/XC/Dressage and all the other many 'disciplines' </font>

hmm ok but i think if you took 10 horses that had been fighting in china and 10 horses that had completed a cross country course i know which ones would be better off

<font color="blue"> While I take the point about the rope, pen, in 'nature' stallions often do injure each other fatally - is this acceptable? </font>
of course its acceptable thay are fighting for a reason natural selection survival of the fittest and all that jaz not because a man wants them to

turning horses out together is not something to be compared to this...

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> Why not? Who says what is or isn't comparable. I am sure we can compare, and discuss, anything we like on HHO. </font>
ok i shouldnt say what should be compared but i dont see how your comparison is valid?

dissapointed in you today normally chuckle at your posts but today your just being a wind up
 
Nothing surprises me anymore regarding the Chinese
frown.gif
. I watched a harrowing doc about a safari park in the north of China. The people making the doc came away shocked and sickened by what they saw. The safari park has a small area where tigers are kept.It is flat and completely empty of bushes trees etc.There are about 8 tigers who are obese and completely switched off. The Chinese public enjoy themselves by paying towards the 'SHOW' which is the feeding of a live bullock to the tigers. A truck is driven into the ring and the back starts to tilt up, a bullock starts to slip out and after trying his hardest not to, falls out of the back.The tigers are so obese and lazy that they play with the bullock and kill it very very slowly. They have no appetite whatsoever but have retained just enough instinct to slowly maul it to death. This is repeated twice a day and the first bullock is sometimes still alive when the second one arrives!The Chinese public love it and bring their little children to watch the show, the more the bullock screams and bellows, the better its enjoyed. For a small fee you can buy a live hen and feed it to the tigers personally from the safety of a bus .
I find it repulsive but for them its quite normal-a bit like the Spanish and their bull fighting but thats old hat and doesnt make the news anymore
grin.gif
These stories come and go and we get all huffed and puffed about it then..poof, something else turns up and we all start going OOOOOOOOooooooooooooooohhhhhhh again.
 
[ QUOTE ]
hmm ok but i think if you took 10 horses that had been fighting in china and 10 horses that had completed a cross country course i know which ones would be better off
<font color="purple"> No, you can't know...but you surmise that XC horses will be better off...I'm not so sure.... </font>

of course its acceptable thay are fighting for a reason natural selection survival of the fittest and all that jaz not because a man wants them to
<font color="purple"> And are the Chinese stallions not fighting to survive and reproduce? If the winning stallion is used for breeding, is that not improving the breed in a more natural way that picking a stallion who can piaffe well? </font>

ok i shouldnt say what should be compared but i dont see how your comparison is valid?
<font color="purple"> You've sort of taken me the thread of my argument, which was that we prioritise horses' physical well being before their mental health... </font>

dissapointed in you today normally chuckle at your posts but today your just being a wind up

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Not meaning to wind you up at all, I'm just interested in views regarding physical/mental health of horses.
And sometimes I have serious Satanic work to do
wink.gif
</font>
S
smile.gif
 
Apparently the 'cute tiger plus piglet' photos on another thread are from this zoo...which likes to make tigers raise piglets and pigs raise tiger cubs...for the edification and enjoyment of the Chinese public.
At best, you could consider that the Chinese are too focused on the struggles of life and death to have time for an educated perspective on animal welfare...which could be considered a luxury.
S
grin.gif
 
The Chinese are incredibly exquisite in their cruelty, even to there own kind. One of their tortures was to lop off the unfortunates limbs (without killing him) and keep him alive and naked in a huge glass jar for as long as he lived.Said 'torso' was fed, watered and cleaned out daily
crazy.gif
The death penalty is rife in China and its carried out 'in the comfort of your own home'. A van, with all the nec equipment goes to the condemned's home and its done there and then at his home address-gives a new meaning to the 'icecream van'! The vans are supplied by FIAT!
tongue.gif
 
Presumably, if you're a Chinese fighting stallion owner, it is bad news for you if your horse loses/gets damaged too?
So is it better to keep your horse physically well....or mentally happy....if you can't do both?
S
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently the 'cute tiger plus piglet' photos on another thread are from this zoo...which likes to make tigers raise piglets and pigs raise tiger cubs...for the edification and enjoyment of the Chinese public.
At best, you could consider that the Chinese are too focused on the struggles of life and death to have time for an educated perspective on animal welfare...which could be considered a luxury.
S
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


Actually its a zoo in Thailand

http://www.thaiwaysmagazine.com/pattaya_ad/tiger_zoo/tiger_zoo.html
 
sounds like the romans entertainment.

horse fighting is solely for the destruction/injury of one of the animals for the gratification of the crowd-unlike something like cross country where the aim is not to kill your horse!
it does happen of course but we try to make things as safe as possible but still a challenge and reduce the risks.

its not natural-natural would be a huge open area and the chance to either challenge or not challenge, to have not been 'trained' to do this and the chance to run away.
these animals have none of this.
i hardly think the horses are mentally or physically 'happy' being penned in and forced to fight.

naturally there tends not to be too much in the way of violent fights ending in the serious injury or death of one horse, as the majority of the horses communication is done just through body language rather than physical contact and shows of strength thus avoiding injuries.
 
[ QUOTE ]
sounds like the romans entertainment.
<font color="blue"> And the Romans had some fine ideas as regards Christians if I recall correctly
grin.gif
</font>
horse fighting is solely for the destruction/injury of one of the animals for the gratification of the crowd-unlike something like cross country where the aim is not to kill your horse!
it does happen of course but we try to make things as safe as possible but still a challenge and reduce the risks.
<font color="blue"> Good point regarding intentions...although I have seen some XC rounds where I thought the horse might be safer in a Chinese horse fight
wink.gif
</font>

its not natural-natural would be a huge open area and the chance to either challenge or not challenge, to have not been 'trained' to do this and the chance to run away.
these animals have none of this.
i hardly think the horses are mentally or physically 'happy' being penned in and forced to fight.
<font color="blue"> I agree it is not completely natural...but I would imagine the stallions are motivated to fight by internal drives...to mate with the mare if successful. If they were successfully 'trained' to fight, the mare, gunshots etc (?) would not be required, so at least they are expressing some natural behaviours. </font>
naturally there tends not to be too much in the way of violent fights ending in the serious injury or death of one horse, as the majority of the horses communication is done just through body language rather than physical contact and shows of strength thus avoiding injuries.

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> This is a really interesting, and valid, IMO point - it is generally in horses' interests not to fight if dominance can be clearly established by larger size, etc. Which raises another interesting (well at least to me!) question - many yards I know turn horses out in similar gender/size groupings - so all the pony geldings together etc...but does this not predispose for dominance problems...whereas if you have mixed gender/size/age groupings, dominance is very easily established and therefore fewer injuries result? </font>
Thanks for your post - I enjoyed reading your points.
S
grin.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top