Horse Footsore On Stones

[elliehayes92]

Hi everyone

My boy has been barefoot his entire life but I’ve noticed every so often he will be footsore and stumbly on the gravel drive (sound on other types of ground). He will be sound on it one week and then footsore on it the next.

I think it’s to do with the rain and his feet but any ideas?

 

[ester]

It's most likely due to grass changes

 

[PurBee]

Sounds like either thrush of the frog, or sporadic low-grade laminitis due to grazing/feed changes.

Gravel is a great test for barefoot feet. If he was footy all the time on gravel i’d look into sole being thin, and possibly question if he’s getting enough good minerals to balance out grazing/hay to aid strong foot growth.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

As others have said...check overall foot and hoof health etc.

Mine was all good, farrier happy but after wet periods could be a little reluctant on stoney tracks, not bad enough to consider shoeing again. Farrier recommended painting keratex hoof hardener to the bottom of the feet to give him a little extra protection during endless wet periods.

 

[elliehayes92]

He’s currently fed the recommended quantities of pure fibre balance and pink mash. Happy to add to his diet, especially around the changes in grass just not sure what.

He is showing no other signs of lami, as that’s always been a worry with him and he’s checked frequently for pulses etc.

 

[elliehayes92]

As others have said...check overall foot and hoof health etc.

Mine was all good, farrier happy but after wet periods could be a little reluctant on stoney tracks, not bad enough to consider shoeing again. Farrier recommended painting keratex hoof hardener to the bottom of the feet to give him a little extra protection during endless wet periods.

Thank you, this was something I was thinking of as another barefooter on the yard does the same

 

[tda]

Would definitely check for thrush

 

[PurBee]

He’s currently fed the recommended quantities of pure fibre balance and pink mash. Happy to add to his diet, especially around the changes in grass just not sure what.

He is showing no other signs of lami, as that’s always been a worry with him and he’s checked frequently for pulses etc.

The nutrients in pure fibre look good….so you have the bases covered.
Edited to add: The only ingredients i dont like in it is the iron and salt. Iron is plentiful in uk/ireland water/grass/hay and we dont want to add more to their diet as we struggle to balance out already high iron forage levels With adequate zinc.copper etc. Salt has been suggested to degrade all other nutrients if added in a mix - i read that from a nutritionist and can understand the logic as salt is somewhat ‘corrosive’.

So maybe trial another balancer that doesnt have iron or added salt to see if your nutrient balancing works better.


Have you asked your trimmer/farrier about the sporadic footiness and to check sole depth/frog health?

Wet weather /pasture will soften up the sole and walls, yet a good sole thickness will compensate and keep them sound usually.

 

[PurBee]

also to add - this year ive been doing trials with my 2, and my mare who would get sporadic footiness has been fabulously sound.
I stopped the oat/alfalfa/soy husk, high iron loaded, generic balancer they were on and changed to equimins advance complete powder. I know i have high iron levels from water here anyway. So focusing on giving as much copper/zinc etc to balance out the iron has helped.
Equimins has 5% salt in it though which bothers me, as that could be degrading the fabulous quality mineral ingredients they add, specifically the b vitamins. Such a shame. Im yet to find a balancer mix without friggin’ salt! But its more important to not feed more iron.

I also treated my grazing land with calcium/magnesium and mix of minerals - after grazing her on this her black coat became really black!

 

[elliehayes92]

He was previously on Lo Cal Balancer and exhibiting similar issues. But I am always happy to look into trialling other feed. You seem to know way more than me so are there any you’d recommend?

Re farrier - he’s organised for most of the yard and I’ve yet to be up there when he is there due to work commitments. I can pass the message on/text him but he isn’t due until mid November

 

[sbloom]

I would definitely cut out the iron, Progressive Earth and Forageplus offer a range of iron-free supplements and balancers. I would also treat any footiness as a very early warning sign of laminitis, or just low grade laminitis. Being in wet conditions long term might cause a bit of footiness (probably due to thrush or WLD) but I would suspect the rain causing raised growth and sugars in grass being the cause when you're seeing changes over the shorter term. Bear in mind that many farriers just do not recognise the low grade versions of any of the conditions I've just mentioned as they're so common in shod horses and shoes will mask it being a significant issue.

 

[Laurac13]

My elderly mini Shetland gets slightly soft soles when it’s been wet for a prolonged period and I occasionally use keratex when needed which isn’t very often at all and it does work

 

[elliehayes92]

I would definitely cut out the iron, Progressive Earth and Forageplus offer a range of iron-free supplements and balancers. I would also treat any footiness as a very early warning sign of laminitis, or just low grade laminitis. Being in wet conditions long term might cause a bit of footiness (probably due to thrush or WLD) but I would suspect the rain causing raised growth and sugars in grass being the cause when you're seeing changes over the shorter term. Bear in mind that many farriers just do not recognise the low grade versions of any of the conditions I've just mentioned as they're so common in shod horses and shoes will mask it being a significant issue.

I’m assuming you treat low grade lami the same as normal lami?

 

[sbloom]

I’m assuming you treat low grade lami the same as normal lami?

Essentially yes, the precautionary/preventative approach, so keep an eye on the grass and manage him long term as if he's lammi prone, taking no risks. Does the pony/horse show significant growth ridges in the hooves? This can be evidence of sugar sensitivity/periods of LGL.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

One of mine is barefoot and he felt the stones more this summer so I put him on Progressive earth hoof platinum and his been a lot better even after being on it 4 weeks, I have managed to slim him down a bit as I changed hay supplier which I think helped, he normally gets the pro balance from Progressive earth anyway but thought I would upgrade it.

It's been a wet summer here so the grass has been constant which hasn't helped either, can cause soft wet hooves that become sensitive and the extra sugar combined is enough to cause problems.

 

[Tarragon]

I keep my ponies barefoot and we have a short section of very stony track as soon as you leave the stables. Sometimes they march over it, other times they are far more tentative. I use it as part of my armoury of data to ensure I am on top of things. I don't believe that any barefoot-kept horse will be the same every day of the year because there are so many factors involved that change daily (but mainly sugars in grass), but one of the advantage of a barefoot horse is that gives it you ample early warning of any problems and time for you to adjust your regime accordingly, whether it is checking and treating thrush, reducing grass or changing feed or using or adjusting hoof boots.

 

[Reacher]

also to add - this year ive been doing trials with my 2, and my mare who would get sporadic footiness has been fabulously sound.
I stopped the oat/alfalfa/soy husk, high iron loaded, generic balancer they were on and changed to equimins advance complete powder. I know i have high iron levels from water here anyway. So focusing on giving as much copper/zinc etc to balance out the iron has helped.
Equimins has 5% salt in it though which bothers me, as that could be degrading the fabulous quality mineral ingredients they add, specifically the b vitamins. Such a shame. Im yet to find a balancer mix without friggin’ salt! But its more important to not feed more iron.

I also treated my grazing land with calcium/magnesium and mix of minerals - after grazing her on this her black coat became really black!

FWIW forage plus say added salt in balancers should not degrade the vits/mins
https://forageplus.co.uk/salt-in-horse-feed-balancers/

Also I guess you know that Equimins does contain natural iron (just not artificially added iron) - 1129 mg/kg compared to 44 mg/kg for forage plus
https://forageplus.co.uk/iron-in-horse-feed-balancers/

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Hoof armour is brilliant for these times as well I will use it on occasion if he is feeling them a bit more than usual, I normally put one application on then the next day add another and it definitely helps especially after a trim.

 

[PurBee]

FWIW forage plus say added salt in balancers should not degrade the vits/mins
https://forageplus.co.uk/salt-in-horse-feed-balancers/

Also I guess you know that Equimins does contain natural iron (just not artificially added iron) - 1129 mg/kg compared to 44 mg/kg for forage plus
https://forageplus.co.uk/iron-in-horse-feed-balancers/

Thanks for that reacher - its somewhat reassuring - i havent looked deeply into salt degrading studies or anything and have read it on a couple of equine nutritionalists websites, so wonder if long term storage of a salt added balancer eventually degrades the vitamin/mineral content, rather than using a fresh-mixed supply?

I know longterm salt degrades things, as even my salt grinder gave up being useful as the grinder bottom part was metal and the salt degraded that.

The natural iron of 1.1g per 1000 grams i can tolerate in equimins, as they only get 50g per day.

The real shocker for iron levels is in many hays and haylage. Those suppliers that upload their nutritional analysis of the forage they sell always proves we dont need to ever add iron as they get plenty from forage. Some haylage is 3 times the amount needed. 400mg iron per day for a 500kg horse Is recommended. So if we factor in the high iron in beet pulp, water sources, grain hard feeds and nutritional balancers mostly add it, horses are getting way too much when fed ‘standard’ forage, grain bucket feed, and mineral mixes.

For me, my water source is the main culprit, from a spring. When the horses showed me they prefer to drink from a puddle than their sparkling clear fresh water buckets, i knew i had an issue.

The impact of high iron biologically within the horse has all round body effects so if that 1 mineral can be kept in range of around 80mg per 100kg body weight, we’ll be winning with these common symptoms. If iron is high we have to up all other minerals as many get blocked by high iron. That leads to potential over-dosing of zinc/copper/boron etc so its FAR easier to curb iron input in their diet than piling into them high dose minerals to offset high iron.

I have 1 black horse so iron issues show clearly in her coat. She’s blacker than ever this year and also her feet have been so much more robust. She was the one prone to footiness out of the 2. I also changed forage supply to lower iron. She’s been out eating without muzzle all year as much sugar grass as she likes too!

 

[Reacher]

@PurBee Re the salt, the FP site seems to be saying that so long as moisture doesn’t get in, the vits/mins should be fine within the expiry date. Maybe try and keep opened supplements in an air tight container.

Yes I got very worried about iron levels, I did read that turmeric helps inhibit uptake of iron. Though it may inhibit the uptake of copper also... I think soaking hay removes some iron too.

By the way I find all your nutrition related posts very interesting @PurBee !

Sorry for going off topic, OP!

 

[Apizz2019]

Sounds like our pony. He was exactly the same. Then the fields were fertislied in May, followed by the perfect weather for rapid grass growth. And bam, he came down with laminitis.

Thankfully it was mild but I now realise it had been rumbling away for many months and I'd missed it.

He has since been diagnosed with EMS and is now out and muzzled, fed analysed soaked hay and his diet is managed carefully.

We've not had a moments footiness since his weight and diet has been managed, regardless of rain or sunshine. We're on a very stony yard, more so than our previous one where he came down with laminitis, but he crunches rocks like he's walking on soft grass.

I'd always recommend looking at the diet first. Hoof health comes from within, no matter what you smother on the outside.

I thought ours was just a footy pony and his hooves were flared because 'he was growing the foot he needed'.

I now realise just how wrong and foolish I was.