Horse footy- what do you think of her feet? What would you feed?

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J1993

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Hi my horse is currently living out 24/7 and is unshod. She last had her feet trimmed on the 2nd September but seems to have gone quite footy on stoney surfaces recently. She was on horseandpony direct lo cal balancer but is a fussy eater so wasnt interested in it due to the grass. She can be hard to catch so i have been giving her a handful of mollichaff and horse and pony mix just to get her used to coming in and eating something 'tasty'. She is a 16.3hh 9 year old ID x Warmblood. Although she is out currently she will be in overnight in approx 1 month and can get quite fizzy from certain feeds and also isnt keen on anything mashy like fibrebeet. I dont really want to put shoes on her but would rather her be comfortable when walking over stones. I have attached pictures of her feet, they are strong and hard but i dont really know much else about barefoot!

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And her body:
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there looks to be bits of grit wedges in the white line. Also if the horse is footy then cut back on ridden work and consider shoeing. I know the barefoot brigade hate shoes but often its whats best for the horse. I currently have one of mine shoeless but hes only going out once a week and doing minimum trotting ,if any on roads, let common sense into this and dont blindly follow fashionable concepts. your horse may need shoeing for the work it is doing.Or it may be quite ok left unshod if its work is reduced for a few weeks.
 
Her bars are very overgrown, thus creating a pressure on the corium and that is a very likely reason for footiness. Be aware that the pinkish areas in the outer wall of her light hooves might actually be hemorraghe in the live tissues of the hoof due to painful pressure and decreased shock absorbtion which can be caused by decreased usage of the hoof mechanism.
 
I would say that her white line is not very tight with some bruising likely to be dietary problems. Her digital cushion looks like it needs building up too as you can see the hairline slopes down towards the ground rather than being a straight line. All these things can cause footiness and won't necessarily be cured by shoeing, rather they may be masked. Whether you shoe or not, I would treat for thrush and work on restricting her grazing and work on building up those heels and digital cushion.
The grass will be having a spurt at this time of year which may explain the sudden footiness.
If you want something small to feed her, try a pelleted balancer like Spillers Lite and or some mollasses free chaff or a high fibre cube.
 
She's got some hoof bruising on her white hoof, is she footy on all four? (If you can tell!), I would personally go for hoof boots, we use cavello's on two of ours (front feet only) that are footy on stones and it helps massively. I would also try some keratex hoof hardener, you can also use it on the sole (avoiding the frog) and it's used for 10 days at a time, we've had great success using it on a big lad who's just gone barefoot and was very footy. I realise you say her hooves are strong but there is quite a bit of chipping on the edges of her hooves so the keratex would help with the outter wall too.
 
If you want to stay barefoot I'd take her off any feed with sugar/molasses in (which mollichaff and mix will have in) - My lot (2 TBs, a showjumper and 2 cobs, all barefoot) are on a variety of lucerne chop (Alfa A Unmollassed, or Simple System Green Gold) and the TBs have grass nuts if needed for weight. If you have a fussy eater, can recommend micronised linseed (from Charnwood milling, online) - it's got no sugar, it's great for condition/topline, and it seems to be delicious! Both my fussy ex-racers are crazy about it and don't mind eating their 'greens' whereas before I added the linseed they wouldn't touch anything that wasn't mix/nut.

We have lots of barefoot horses on our yard, and the more sensitive ones tend to get footy when there's been some rain and therefore a spurt of grass growth. I don't think her feet look bad - at least they're holding together well.
 
Not a bad set of feet but they do have some bruising which I guess is maybe doing too much before her feet are ready. I would think it could be her diet playing a part in the footiness. You say she is out 24/7 which wont help with all the grass, also her feed is mollichaff (full of sugar) and mix (starchy!), both of which you want to avoid. A 'barefoot diet' is one that is low in sugar and starch, so avoid any thing with sugar/mollases in. I'd suggest to feed her something like hifi unmollassed and if she needs anything extra then something like speedibeet or micronised linseed :)
 
Thanks for all the messages. I will start keeping her in during the day. She had been out 24/7 since may with no issues but we have had a big spurt of grass with the rain from the past 2 days. I am more than happy to get the farrier back out but i know diet is a big issue. Farrier is due out next week but if she gets worse i will definately ask him to come sooner or even vet if needed. I hadnt noticed the bruising on her hind white foot but i can see now (bad mum :-( ) she gets ridden a few times a week either in the school or hacked out but i never trot on the road. What can i do about the bruising? I will obviously not ride her as long as needed! Hoof boots i have thought about but she has front odd feet so not sure if they will fit! I will stop feeding the sugary and starchy feeds and look into all your suggestions. Thank you.
 
J1993 said:
Thanks for all the messages. I will start keeping her in during the day. She had been out 24/7 since may with no issues but we have had a big spurt of grass with the rain from the past 2 days. I am more than happy to get the farrier back out but i know diet is a big issue. Farrier is due out next week but if she gets worse i will definately ask him to come sooner or even vet if needed. I hadnt noticed the bruising on her hind white foot but i can see now (bad mum :-( ) she gets ridden a few times a week either in the school or hacked out but i never trot on the road. What can i do about the bruising? I will obviously not ride her as long as needed! Hoof boots i have thought about but she has front odd feet so not sure if they will fit! I will stop feeding the sugary and starchy feeds and look into all your suggestions. Thank you.
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Personally (and no doubt lots of people will disagree) I wouldn't be too worried about the bruising - my barefoot trimmer said bruises happen, and as long as they're not consistent and painful then shouldn't be something to worry about. My cob gets them from where his feet were very overgrown and are now adjusting. I think you'll find that the healthier and stronger the foot gets, so too will the bruising disappear. Can also recommend seaweed (from charnwood milling, with the linseed, and brewers yeast) for strengthening hoof quality. Good luck!
 
J1993 said:
Thanks for all the messages. I will start keeping her in during the day. She had been out 24/7 since may with no issues but we have had a big spurt of grass with the rain from the past 2 days. I am more than happy to get the farrier back out but i know diet is a big issue. Farrier is due out next week but if she gets worse i will definately ask him to come sooner or even vet if needed. I hadnt noticed the bruising on her hind white foot but i can see now (bad mum :-( ) she gets ridden a few times a week either in the school or hacked out but i never trot on the road. What can i do about the bruising? I will obviously not ride her as long as needed! Hoof boots i have thought about but she has front odd feet so not sure if they will fit! I will stop feeding the sugary and starchy feeds and look into all your suggestions. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Cavallo sports boots can be bought individually and we've just done this for a horse with very different front feet, they do a standard width and a slim fit. x
 
Horsesforever1 said:
there looks to be bits of grit wedges in the white line. Also if the horse is footy then cut back on ridden work and consider shoeing. I know the barefoot brigade hate shoes but often its whats best for the horse. I currently have one of mine shoeless but hes only going out once a week and doing minimum trotting ,if any on roads, let common sense into this and dont blindly follow fashionable concepts. your horse may need shoeing for the work it is doing.Or it may be quite ok left unshod if its work is reduced for a few weeks.
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The horse has been fine all summer, and at the peak time for cases of laminitis goes footie on stones.

And your answer is to shoe it instead of finding out why it's changed?

OP, your problem is almost certainly that the grass at this time of year is stuff full of sugar before it dies back for winter. Your plan to stable daytime is a good one.

I would feed one of the supplements with no iron in if she was mine and she will eat it.

The bruises are imo of no concern. All my white footed horses get them from time to time.
 
I don't have anything like the knowledge and experience of some of those who have already advised you but I'd say if the problem is a recent one then look at what's changed if she's been coping well all summer. By the sounds of it the feeding of the molichaff and mix. I would swap these for a feed that does not contain molasses (both of these will be loaded with sugar). As she won't eat soaked feed that could limit your options but I'd perhaps give the chaffs mentioned a go as well as the linseed. Perhaps also have a look at adding in a good quality mineral mix targeted at common mineral deficiencies in the UK (eg progressive earth pro balance / pro hoof, there are others out there as well). I'd say if she's happy on non stoney surfaces then keep working her on them. Stimulation is good for hoof health provided it's on surfaces where she feels comfortable enough to be moving correctly plus it will help burn off some of the calories provided by the flush in the grass! If changing her feed doesn't have the desired effect then bringing her off the grass during the day and providing hay / haylage instead should also help. If you're planning on keeping her as unshod / barefoot then it probably wouldn't hurt to do a bit of your own background research / reading to get an idea of what a healthy foot should look like and what can potentially cause problems.
 
_HP_ said:
I would say that her white line is not very tight with some bruising likely to be dietary problems. Her digital cushion looks like it needs building up too as you can see the hairline slopes down towards the ground rather than being a straight line. All these things can cause footiness and won't necessarily be cured by shoeing, rather they may be masked. Whether you shoe or not, I would treat for thrush and work on restricting her grazing and work on building up those heels and digital cushion.
The grass will be having a spurt at this time of year which may explain the sudden footiness.
If you want something small to feed her, try a pelleted balancer like Spillers Lite and or some mollasses free chaff or a high fibre cube.
Click to expand...

How do you build up the digital cushion and heels? I have looked at a hoof anatomy picture online so i have an idea of where you mean? Is this something the farrier corrects? Can i treat the thrush by purple spraying daily?

Princess Rosie said:
She's got some hoof bruising on her white hoof, is she footy on all four? (If you can tell!), I would personally go for hoof boots, we use cavello's on two of ours (front feet only) that are footy on stones and it helps massively. I would also try some keratex hoof hardener, you can also use it on the sole (avoiding the frog) and it's used for 10 days at a time, we've had great success using it on a big lad who's just gone barefoot and was very footy. I realise you say her hooves are strong but there is quite a bit of chipping on the edges of her hooves so the keratex would help with the outter wall too.
Click to expand...
It seems to be the hind white one which is worse but is a bit ouchy ouchy on them all. Was mainly concerned because she seemed fine last week, and over the past few days had gone sore! I am wondering whether a small walk down a stoney path could have done it even though we were on it for minutes and only walked! Feel so guilty now! I will look at the keratex, robinsons is open till late tomorrow so i will go after work!

tobiano1984 said:
If you want to stay barefoot I'd take her off any feed with sugar/molasses in (which mollichaff and mix will have in) - My lot (2 TBs, a showjumper and 2 cobs, all barefoot) are on a variety of lucerne chop (Alfa A Unmollassed, or Simple System Green Gold) and the TBs have grass nuts if needed for weight. If you have a fussy eater, can recommend micronised linseed (from Charnwood milling, online) - it's got no sugar, it's great for condition/topline, and it seems to be delicious! Both my fussy ex-racers are crazy about it and don't mind eating their 'greens' whereas before I added the linseed they wouldn't touch anything that wasn't mix/nut.
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Thanks, i am ditching her current feed! It was given to me to try by another livery which she liked the taste of and ate so i bought a bag. It is actually a veteran bag not sure if that makes a difference? Will order the micronised linseed although not sure how it is fed? I previously tried her on fibrebeet. Luckily i asked for samples which she point blank refused to eat or i wouldnt of been impressed if i had bought a big bag!

tobiano1984 said:
Personally (and no doubt lots of people will disagree) I wouldn't be too worried about the bruising - my barefoot trimmer said bruises happen, and as long as they're not consistent and painful then shouldn't be something to worry about. My cob gets them from where his feet were very overgrown and are now adjusting. I think you'll find that the healthier and stronger the foot gets, so too will the bruising disappear. Can also recommend seaweed (from charnwood milling, with the linseed, and brewers yeast) for strengthening hoof quality. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks, i read the replies and my heart sunk, the words of internal hoof bleeding had me mortified especially the fact that i was taking pictures and hadnt noticed, but i think it is more that i am unsure what i am looking for! I was also reccomended the linseed from an earlier poster from that website so i will have a look now!
Princess Rosie said:
Cavallo sports boots can be bought individually and we've just done this for a horse with very different front feet, they do a standard width and a slim fit. x
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Thanks I didnt know this!

Boulty said:
I don't have anything like the knowledge and experience of some of those who have already advised you but I'd say if the problem is a recent one then look at what's changed if she's been coping well all summer. By the sounds of it the feeding of the molichaff and mix. I would swap these for a feed that does not contain molasses (both of these will be loaded with sugar). As she won't eat soaked feed that could limit your options but I'd perhaps give the chaffs mentioned a go as well as the linseed. Perhaps also have a look at adding in a good quality mineral mix targeted at common mineral deficiencies in the UK (eg progressive earth pro balance / pro hoof, there are others out there as well). I'd say if she's happy on non stoney surfaces then keep working her on them. Stimulation is good for hoof health provided it's on surfaces where she feels comfortable enough to be moving correctly plus it will help burn off some of the calories provided by the flush in the grass! If changing her feed doesn't have the desired effect then bringing her off the grass during the day and providing hay / haylage instead should also help. If you're planning on keeping her as unshod / barefoot then it probably wouldn't hurt to do a bit of your own background research / reading to get an idea of what a healthy foot should look like and what can potentially cause problems.
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Thanks for your reply, i am definitely taking her off her current feed as like you said the grass having sugar and me feeding even more sugar cant be helping. The problem with continuing to work her is walking to the arena has a stoney path so i wouldnt like to discomfort her. I was thinking of giving her a week off, stabling during the day with hay and cutting off her feed till i find an appropriate one that suits her. To be honest she is my first horse that i have owned myself with all decisions being mine and even 1 year on i am still learning things about her and panicking about feed/hooves/weight etc! She has a splint on each leg so i am always very nervy when it comes to things to do with her legs/hooves and booting her up whenever she is exercised! She was previously fed nothing apart from hay but i tried her on a balancer, then just a chaff and she is so fussy!
 
All heels are underrun, especially fronts. If they won't wear down they need to be trimmed.

Look at Pic 2 that shows a vertical cannon and drop a line down to the ground through the center; the foot is too far forward. Bring back the toe with a good roll and lower the heel to bring the foot back under the leg and restore balance.

Sort out the problem, don't just mask it with a shoe.
 
Ronalda said:
All heels are underrun, especially fronts. If they won't wear down they need to be trimmed.

Look at Pic 2 that shows a vertical cannon and drop a line down to the ground through the center; the foot is too far forward. Bring back the toe with a good roll and lower the heel to bring the foot back under the leg and restore balance.

Sort out the problem, don't just mask it with a shoe.
Click to expand...

I think this is dangerous advice to give from seeing a set of photos on the internet. In my opinion, if an attempt is made to reduce the under run heels (which are not very severe) by taking heel height off, this will simply overload an already ground bearing frog and could result in severe lameness and abscesses.

OP please don't take trimming advice from anyone who has not seen the horse.

The way to correct under run heels is lots of steady work on abrasive surfaces, in hand if necessary.

Seaweed is not recommended by people who know about mineral balancing unless you know that your horse is low in iron and iodine. It contains too much of both.
 
cptrayes said:
The way to correct under run heels is lots of steady work on abrasive surfaces, in hand if necessary.
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This

I've had a lot of success with thrush using Red Horse field paste or Artimud

https://redhorseproducts.com/shop-2/hoof-care/artimud/

And a regular scrub and squirt with diluted Milton.

It sounds like with a slight change of routine ie less grass and a diet change you'll be back on track in no time :)
 
cptrayes said:
Seaweed is not recommended by people who know about mineral balancing unless you know that your horse is low in iron and iodine. It contains too much of both.
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Have to disagree on this - I was advised to feed it for hoof health and after googling it read lots about it being bad for overdosing on iodine which concerned me. I then called Simple System feeds who are very helpful - and know an awful lot about mineral balancing - and they said that there seaweed (and the stuff from Charnwood milling, I think it's the same supplier) is different to the stuff you get in normal seaweed supplements. In their exact words:

"There is a lot of conflicting information about seaweed The seaweed we use is Ascophyllum nodosum which grows further up the shoreline and is known for having much lower levels of iodine, in the hundreds, and so proportionately more of other minerals and trace elements. It is harvested at a mature stage of its growth – to harvest it very young would not make good economic sense apart from being inferior nutrition.


We are perfectly aware of the risks of feeding too much iodine so we suggest then when feeding the Pure Ocean Seaweed is fed at 10g per 100kg of body weight so if you pony’s ideal body weight is 300kg he will need 30g per day, if your Cob’s ideal body weight is 400kg he will need 40g per day and if your Thoroughbred’s ideal body weight is 500kg he will need 50g per day. We have used seaweed on our own horses for very many years and have a great deal of experience in using and monitoring its effects and if it did not do a good job, we would not use it!"
 
OP - you asked about feeding - the micronised stuff from charnwood can be fed directly. I feed with chaff and non-mollassed beet - they love it and will eat it on its own but something wet will stop it from going everywhere (as it's very light/dust like). depending on your horse's weight/topline - my TBs have a mug of it per feed, more if they start to drop off (was feeding one 6 mugs per day at one point) my cobs get half a mugful so they don't get chubby. I don't think it's something you can go wrong with - the worse that will happen is your horse gets fat which you will notice!!

Also, not sure who deals with your horse's feet at the moment, but (and I know I will probably get lynched for this) I would recommend a properly registered barefoot practictioner - mine is with the NHCP and trained for years. Farriers vary greatly, I know one who is very pro-barefoot and good at trimming, whilst all the others I've come across (and we have 5 or 6 coming to our yard) tend to trim the foot back too much, as if preparing to shoe, and then surprise surprise the horse gets sore. Not by any means saying farriers don't know what they're doing, but NHCP barefoot folks do such a thorough job - mine measures angles and god knows what - and she's corrected my Tb's leg which twisted outwards after having his racing plates off, just with trimming - whereas the farrier prescribed very expensive remedial shoeing. Just a thought, sure many will disagree.
 
cptrayes said:
The horse has been fine all summer, and at the peak time for cases of laminitis goes footie on stones.

And your answer is to shoe it instead of finding out why it's changed?

OP, your problem is almost certainly that the grass at this time of year is stuff full of sugar before it dies back for winter. Your plan to stable daytime is a good one.

I would feed one of the supplements with no iron in if she was mine and she will eat it.

The bruises are imo of no concern. All my white footed horses get them from time to time.
Click to expand...

Pretty much agree with all of the above... and have some Linseed in the diet too....but would not be adding seaweed as too high in iron content and imho,.not needed.
 
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tobiano1984 said:
Have to disagree on this - I was advised to feed it for hoof health and after googling it read lots about it being bad for overdosing on iodine which concerned me. I then called Simple System feeds who are very helpful - and know an awful lot about mineral balancing - and they said that there seaweed (and the stuff from Charnwood milling, I think it's the same supplier) is different to the stuff you get in normal seaweed supplements. In their exact words:

"There is a lot of conflicting information about seaweed The seaweed we use is Ascophyllum nodosum which grows further up the shoreline and is known for having much lower levels of iodine, in the hundreds, and so proportionately more of other minerals and trace elements. It is harvested at a mature stage of its growth – to harvest it very young would not make good economic sense apart from being inferior nutrition.


We are perfectly aware of the risks of feeding too much iodine so we suggest then when feeding the Pure Ocean Seaweed is fed at 10g per 100kg of body weight so if you pony’s ideal body weight is 300kg he will need 30g per day, if your Cob’s ideal body weight is 400kg he will need 40g per day and if your Thoroughbred’s ideal body weight is 500kg he will need 50g per day. We have used seaweed on our own horses for very many years and have a great deal of experience in using and monitoring its effects and if it did not do a good job, we would not use it!"
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but unless batch tested the mineral content of seaweed is going to vary, whereas using a standard mineral product will mean it does not.
 
ester said:
but unless batch tested the mineral content of seaweed is going to vary, whereas using a standard mineral product will mean it does not.
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Quite true, but apparently not enough to be an issue (the stuff I get anyway is supposed to be very consistent) and I always err on the cautious side with dosage particularly as mine are just on maintenance quantities as they all have superb rock-crunching hooves. I chose to go down the basic natural supplement route as find a lot of the branded mixed supplements to be a complete farce and often have such small quantities of vits/minerals that they are all but useless. There are of course various brands which have functional quantities but they also tend to be prohibitively expensive. My combo of seaweed/brewers yeast/linseed costs all of £10/month for 5 horses and they're a very healthy bunch with no issues, and so the rest of my yard are now on my feeding regime and having great results.

Plus I have to say I don't give half the scientific consideration to my own mineral intake that some people give to their horses...! I do eat a lot of seaweed though, love sushi :-)
 
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