Horse has been put on long grass - how to keep weight down?!

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Tayto

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Hey guys - another post from me, had a lot of questions lately!

Our YM has just moved the mares herd from a really bare field to REALLY REALLY long grass that is so long the YM said it should have been cut for hay. I am 5ft 5 and its nearly up to my waist in some parts and so long you can hardly walk in it. I am told that it hasnt been used for grazing for at least a year (if not longer). We are not allowed to strip graze so the mares have been let loose in this grass.

My 8 yr old mare is very a very greedy clydesdale x cob and I am worried about how to keep her weight down. It has been a struggle so far on the little grazing she has had, but we have managed. I am not sure that I want to put a muzzle on her as when it comes off she will just gorge herself and prob end up with an upset stomach. Same with stabling her during the day - I am worried that when she goes back out she will gorge......

ATM we hack almost every day and try to lunge once a week. I am wondering how much excercise she is going to need to keep her weight down. Should I up the tempo on hacks - add more trotting etc and try to extend the length? How far should we be hacking in order for her to get a proper work out?

I hope I dont sound completely stupid - I am a first time horse owner so I am on a HUGE learning curve and just when I think I have everything under control, someone throws me a curve ball!
 
Your worrying that she will gorge: atm she's doing just that all the time except when you are working her. Preventing her from doing it for a few hours will help.

So choice of muzzle, restrict hours on grass, increase exercise - walking at a gentle pace won't help much, she needs to be really marching on, section off a small area for her alone (if allowed), don't be afraid to work her twice a day.
 
Tayto said:
Hey guys - another post from me, had a lot of questions lately!

Our YM has just moved the mares herd from a really bare field to REALLY REALLY long grass that is so long the YM said it should have been cut for hay. I am 5ft 5 and its nearly up to my waist in some parts and so long you can hardly walk in it. I am told that it hasnt been used for grazing for at least a year (if not longer). We are not allowed to strip graze so the mares have been let loose in this grass.

My 8 yr old mare is very a very greedy clydesdale x cob and I am worried about how to keep her weight down. It has been a struggle so far on the little grazing she has had, but we have managed. I am not sure that I want to put a muzzle on her as when it comes off she will just gorge herself and prob end up with an upset stomach. Same with stabling her during the day - I am worried that when she goes back out she will gorge......

ATM we hack almost every day and try to lunge once a week. I am wondering how much excercise she is going to need to keep her weight down. Should I up the tempo on hacks - add more trotting etc and try to extend the length? How far should we be hacking in order for her to get a proper work out?

I hope I dont sound completely stupid - I am a first time horse owner so I am on a HUGE learning curve and just when I think I have everything under control, someone throws me a curve ball!
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The yard manager does not deserve the her title in my view. The risk of a such a large and sudden change in dietary management is ridiculous and very very dangerous.

Muzzle is about the only option if you cannot do a slow staged introduction to better grazing/change of diet.
 
Definitely increase tempo of hacks or if only walking then you need to increase distance prob quite a bit. I would try and lunge more than once a week tho- that's when my boy works hardest when hacking we tend to just mosey along quite sedately.

However Im almost sure i read somewhere that long grass is less nutritious can't remember why but i guess its a sugar less concentrated.
I would prefer to fetch in during day feed soaked older hay so less nutritious- then when turning out pony will be full so won't gorge. Im not a fan of muzzles tho.
 
Dizzydancer said:
However Im almost sure i read somewhere that long grass is less nutritious can't remember why but i guess its a sugar less concentrated.
I would prefer to fetch in during day feed soaked older hay so less nutritious- then when turning out pony will be full so won't gorge. Im not a fan of muzzles tho.
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Yes that is usually true, long grass normally has developed seed heads and the nutrition has been used for that. Also, the stalky grass needs effort to eat it and takes longer than the sugary short stuff in 'bare' paddocks. I agree that if you bring the horse and and give well-soaked hay, it is less likely to gorge when it goes back out.
I can see absolutely no reason for not allowing strip grazing though.
 
I had the same problem as you and ended up moving yards as it just wasn't worth the risk with my fatty. Until I moved tho I kept my horse in at night and muzzled when out in the day. It was the only way I could manage. Good luck! Xx
 
My fatty is in during the day, then out at night with a muzzle on. She is never allowed on grass during the summer now without a muzzle unless she has a night in the starve patch.
 
Good grief some people are completely stupid - and I don't mean YOU I mean the person who moved the horses on to long grass.
If you want to keep your horse healthy you have to restrict her. In your situation I would keep her in for several hours a day and the rest of the time out wearing a muzzle. No access to that grass at all without one! You would have to keep her in part of the day as it's not nice to leave a muzzle on 24 hours a day.
As for work, if she's not fat already and able to do it, I would increase your activity to mostly trot and canter out hacking, it takes several hours a day (think pony-trekking in the Welsh hills 6 days a week) slow work to prevent a horse getting fat.
Also I would be looking to move my horse somewhere where the horse's welfare is more important than the upkeep of nice looking fields. That's a difficult one! So many 'horse liveries' used to be dairy farms or country estates.
 
doriangrey said:
It's worth reading this. Mature grasses are often higher in NSC's because they are not utilizing their resources for growth.
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I have long grass like this in my field, (horses are currently fenced off away from it) and yes on the whole it is long, stemmy and seedy - BUT at the base of it are some shorter green shoots! So beware, green grass could be below the long stuff - hence mine are not having this until deep winter.
 
There has been quite an up roar over the horses being chucked in this field. It is a HUGE field. Obviously I cannot say too much on a public forum but I am less than impressed about the move as you can imagine. I think I am going to have to consider stabling her during the day and seriously upping her exercise. I haven't had her long so up until now we have been getting to know eachother and have kept our hacking pace relatively slow with some trotting and the odd canter but over the last week or so we have been upping the tempo and have managed a few hacks that have been all in trot so will continue to up the work and keep a very close eye on her. Thank you for your tips and advice so far :)
 
The horses have been lucky to get away with the sudden change of diet. The upping the work/stabling etc can all be planned, but the decision to move horses used to little grazing to to waist high grass is beyond belief.

I had a mare escape from her slimming paddock and spend less than 3 hours in standing mowing grass a few years ago. She had colic and spent a very uncomfortable night with her future uncertain. It is the most basic of horse management - make all dietary changes slowly. What was the yard manager thinking about when she moved them. I bet none of them belonged to her.
 
Mudfukkle said:
I have long grass like this in my field, (horses are currently fenced off away from it) and yes on the whole it is long, stemmy and seedy - BUT at the base of it are some shorter green shoots! So beware, green grass could be below the long stuff - hence mine are not having this until deep winter.
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I think you are wise to keep them off it, but not necessarily for the green grass but for the mature grass. When grass is actively growing it is low in NSC (NSC - Non‐structural Carbohydrates: sugar, starch and fructans). When grass is stressed or not growing it stores the NSC and there are so many factors that can affect its levels of NSC, ie temperature, drought, fertiliser etc. More NSC means a higher laminitis risk for your horse. It's generally assumed that spring grass is harmful, but spring grass is lower in NSC as it is actively growing and using its resources. But, because there is more grass growing in spring, more is ingested by the horse if you get me so more volume equals more NSC. Mature grass also contains less moisture and so the NSC will be even more concentrated. So a restricted paddock of short, actively growing grass is probably better for a laminitic than a large, bare paddock of stressed grass conserving its energy waiting for conditions for a growth spurt.
 
I feel your pain -my YO is hassling me to give my horse more grass as I have sectioned off my paddock to restrict his grazing and she is more concerned about her paddock than my horse! I have been working hard to get him to lose weight, everyone is saying how good he looks and she wants him to have more grass!

I may have to move if she doesn't back off.
 
I had my ponies on some long grass while the fence was being fixed in our fields. I sectioned them off and my haflinger had a very mild colic in the first week as she is sensitive and got gassy (it passed without need for the vet). I gave her probiotics to help her gut be able to deal with it and she was ok for the next few weeks but then there is of course the weight issues. She was not too bad but the other two smaller ponies were much more prone to put on weight so we fenced off an area and they all largely stayed in despite multiple escapes and someone stealing the battery (angry face!!).

I cannot believe that a YO or YM would not see a problem with this and allow strip grazing. If it were me I would get a group of concerned liveries together and tell them something needs to be done. If they do not have or won't pay for electric fencing then get some between you and anyone else who will be using it.


I think as much time as you can muzzle her for is still worth doing, and I would feed brewers yeast or similar as the microflora in the gut may not be able to cope with the sudden change (my girl is particularly sensitive though).

I hope your yard will come to their senses!
 
While I can understand that an abrupt change from short grass to long grass can cause a horse to colic, is it really true that long grass is rich feeding? Any change of diet should, of course, be done gradually and that applies to all livestock.

As a farmer, I would not bother trying to make hay from old grass that had shed it's seed as it would not have much nutritional value, in fact it would be almost straw. That seems to be the opposite of what I am reading here. Or have I misunderstood? Or just plain wrong? I'm here to learn so don't spare my blushes!:)
 
Dry Rot said:
While I can understand that an abrupt change from short grass to long grass can cause a horse to colic, is it really true that long grass is rich feeding? Any change of diet should, of course, be done gradually and that applies to all livestock.

As a farmer, I would not bother trying to make hay from old grass that had shed it's seed as it would not have much nutritional value, in fact it would be almost straw. That seems to be the opposite of what I am reading here. Or have I misunderstood? Or just plain wrong? I'm here to learn so don't spare my blushes!:)
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No, I'm not talking about old grass at all. Good grass ready to be cut for hay would be very high in sugars - otherwise why do so many people have to soak hay for horses? I believe it is different for ruminants/bovines (I'm not a farmer) so you could explain to me the different grasses for cows and how it's better for milk production etc. I know it's very complicated for horses and sugar production in grasses can fluctuate hourly! Is it true that cattle can get laminitis?
 
doriangrey said:
No, I'm not talking about old grass at all. Good grass ready to be cut for hay would be very high in sugars - otherwise why do so many people have to soak hay for horses? I believe it is different for ruminants/bovines (I'm not a farmer) so you could explain to me the different grasses for cows and how it's better for milk production etc. I know it's very complicated for horses and sugar production in grasses can fluctuate hourly! Is it true that cattle can get laminitis?
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Farm livestock is kept for producing meat or milk (or, to a lesser extent wool, hides, etc). To put it simply, the production of animal tissue (i.e. meat and milk) requires protein. Protein is needed for cell growth. It is the main constituent of the nucleus of the cell and these nucleated cells are more common in young growing tissue.

So farmers grow grass for maximum protein production. Livestock farmers are not so concerned about sugars but in protein because they want their animals to grow fast and put on meat. Yes, farmers are also concerned about sugars and time the cutting of fodder for conservation with that in mind, but protein production is the main focus. Surplus sugars and carbohydrates are mainly stored as fats which nobody wants in excess.

Do cattle get laminitis? I haven't the faintest idea!:)
 
Dry Rot said:
Farm livestock is kept for producing meat or milk (or, to a lesser extent wool, hides, etc). To put it simply, the production of animal tissue (i.e. meat and milk) requires protein. Protein is needed for cell growth. It is the main constituent of the nucleus of the cell and these nucleated cells are more common in young growing tissue.

So farmers grow grass for maximum protein production. Livestock farmers are not so concerned about sugars but in protein because they want their animals to grow fast and put on meat. Yes, farmers are also concerned about sugars and time the cutting of fodder for conservation with that in mind, but protein production is the main focus. Surplus sugars and carbohydrates are mainly stored as fats which nobody wants in excess.

Do cattle get laminitis? I haven't the faintest idea!:)
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Thanks for that. Apparently cows do get laminitis, especially intensively managed dairy cows, for similar reasons that horses get it too. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't googled it though :o

http://www.agromedia.ca/ADM_Articles/content/lameness.pdf
 
doriangrey said:
Thanks for that. Apparently cows do get laminitis, especially intensively managed dairy cows, for similar reasons that horses get it too. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't googled it though :o

http://www.agromedia.ca/ADM_Articles/content/lameness.pdf
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Dairy cows are a perfect example of how selecting for a handful of desirable characteristics (milk production) can land the breeder with a whole lot of problems!

Shows, where selection is mostly for looks, seem to have pretty much the same result!
 
Dry Rot said:
As a farmer, I would not bother trying to make hay from old grass that had shed it's seed as it would not have much nutritional value, in fact it would be almost straw.
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Where can I get some bales of this to feed to my horses? this type of old grass is EXACTLY what horses should eat!!
 
florayG said:
Where can I get some bales of this to feed to my horses? this type of old grass is EXACTLY what horses should eat!!
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Then, why not feed straw?

Provided the change over is gradual, my Highlands do well on it. Barley straw seemed to suit them best as they just burrowed through the oats straw looking for unthreshed grain and actually put on weight!

Years ago grass would be left until the winter when it would be grazed. It even has a name -- foggage. Why bother cutting, turning, baling, then leading the bales? Just feed it where it is -- which is what I thought the OP's YM was doing.
 
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