Horse has lost confidence

TheChestnutThing

TheChestnutThing

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A few months ago I bought the most divine, athletic, super sweet and talented 17hh TB gelding. I bought him unseen. Taking a chance because of his super attitude and spectacular jump.
When he arrived he was very head shy and I realised he had had no schooling, he had literally just been taught to jump. He had been jumping 1.20m.
Despite this he had a lovely willing how can I help you mom attitude.
I brought him right back down to X rails and the basic components of dressage. He was very rushy, a head thrower, didn't like his mouth to be touched at all and jumping him was like an exercise for him being back at the track (he was an outstanding racehorse) and he threw his head up like a giraffe on approach to a fence. But he never ever said no or gave me any doubt.

Fast forward a month or two, a different bit (hanging cheek french link) a different bridle (relief for flat and plain cavesson with a sheep nose band for jumping) and we were ready for a show. I entered him at 60cm, he went beautifully, so upgraded to 70cm for the next class. The next show he did two 80cm classes and the next an 80cm and a 90cm. The next show we did 90cm and 1m. Again he looked after me and flew round the courses, even if a little fast. I decided to take him to our provincial champs and dropped him back down to 80cm as it was a long show and I didn't want him to be overly exhausted or be scared.
Our rounds had a few poles but I am ok with that. Then the championship day he upped his game, he flew over the fences like he was jumping an open track. We came round a corner (a long corner so lots of time) to an oxer and he was fighting me to the fence. I checked him to bring him back to me but he fought harder, so I left him and put my leg on as I could see he was going for the long stride. That didn't happen, he dropped his shoulder into the fence and swung sideways and there was absolutely nothing I could do to stay on.
The 2nd class I refused to ride him as I felt both his confidence and mine were not at their best and he was feeling a little sore after he unseated me. My instructor convinced me to put another rider (also very experienced) on him and due to his sensitivity (I am also not one to let others ride my horses) I was not happy. But went with it against my better judgement. They made it to jump 3 before he unseated her in the same manner as he did me.

After that show he had a week off and foradics and physio and chiro. Once that was done I hacked for 2 weeks with beach trips etc. Then started schooling on the flat. A month after the disaster show I took him into the jumping arena and he literally refused a pole on the ground. He became flighty and scared. We slowly worked him over those ground poles for a week. Then we set up tiny X rails, he refused. Took another week on those. Then we added lines (X rails to pole to X rails to pole etc) until he was going like a boeing. 6 weeks later and literally jumping a small fence every single ride, I added verticals (no bigger than 70cm). No issues. Then we added verticals to the lines. Blew his mind and he refused. But will jump X rail to vertical in a 2 jump 1 stride combo. Back to square one and start again. All great until I took him in to the jump arena this week and there was a tiny course. He refused the first vertical at a trot, got him over eventually but he took the whole fence with him. Long story short, eventually got him round all the verticals at 60cm but he was very strong and rushy. I was not going to try any oxers after that.

He has lost serious serious confidence. Any ideas on how to help him?

A bit of my background: open showjumper who would rather have a happy horse than a horse to take me back up around those classes.
 
Tack / back / teeth to start with. You sound very experienced and able to recognise pain - but I would always start by ruling that out. Perhaps also ulcers given his race history. And you might want to rule out any degenerative hind limb changes too. Basically go over him with a fine tooth comb!

Then I guess it depends on how much you actually want him to jump. If he isn't in any pain you can find then he clearly is not a happy jumper - and some aren't. Does he jump on hacks or out XC? You've really covered the re schooling basics - other than possibly going a bit fast - which makes it hard to suggest more without seeing you both. But as a general rule of thumb if he jumps happily out hacking, try an XC course and see if you can re-build from there. If he doesn't then I would personally be looking to another discipline.
 
Oh what a shame. How old is he? I wonder if something like this has happened in the past?

I would be tempted to completely leave jumping alone for a month. Hack out, do some flatwork, take him to arena hires but only for flatwork, so he doesn’t associate going out with the stress of jumping as he’s obviously got himself in a bit of a pickle about it. I would possibly then start popping some logs out hacking after a month and just take the pressure off with regards jumping and let him just remember how to go forwards nicely into a jump without fighting.

Do you have a good jumping instructor locally who could offer some help?

Good luck x
 
Oh my. He sounds like he's in pain and from experience the first thing I would investigate is ulcers. I would scope fairly pronto. After that, full investigation incl kissing spine. I wholly believe this can be rectified, but may take a lot if investigating first. My pony became quite difficult which I initially though was hormones. Turned out she had grade 3 bleeding ulcers and she was in immense pain.
 
Shay said:
Tack / back / teeth to start with. You sound very experienced and able to recognise pain - but I would always start by ruling that out. Perhaps also ulcers given his race history. And you might want to rule out any degenerative hind limb changes too. Basically go over him with a fine tooth comb!

Then I guess it depends on how much you actually want him to jump. If he isn't in any pain you can find then he clearly is not a happy jumper - and some aren't. Does he jump on hacks or out XC? You've really covered the re schooling basics - other than possibly going a bit fast - which makes it hard to suggest more without seeing you both. But as a general rule of thumb if he jumps happily out hacking, try an XC course and see if you can re-build from there. If he doesn't then I would personally be looking to another discipline.
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He is is no pain, everything has been checked as explained in OP. He is not confident over ANYTHING at all except for logs on a hack and X rails now. He LOVED jumping. This is why I am so sad for him.
 
Notimetoride said:
Oh my. He sounds like he's in pain and from experience the first thing I would investigate is ulcers. I would scope fairly pronto. After that, full investigation incl kissing spine. I wholly believe this can be rectified, but may take a lot if investigating first. My pony became quite difficult which I initially though was hormones. Turned out she had grade 3 bleeding ulcers and she was in immense pain.
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Definitely not in pain and no ulcers. Been off the track for 3 years.
 
scats said:
Oh what a shame. How old is he? I wonder if something like this has happened in the past?

I would be tempted to completely leave jumping alone for a month. Hack out, do some flatwork, take him to arena hires but only for flatwork, so he doesn’t associate going out with the stress of jumping as he’s obviously got himself in a bit of a pickle about it. I would possibly then start popping some logs out hacking after a month and just take the pressure off with regards jumping and let him just remember how to go forwards nicely into a jump without fighting.

Do you have a good jumping instructor locally who could offer some help?

Good luck x
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He is 9.

I left jumping alone for 6 weeks as explained in OP. But I do agree that maybe it's best if we try that again. I have an excellent jumping instructor who also happens to be a long listed eventer for WEG a few years ago, and she is fantastic with us and doesn't rush him. In fact she is one of those old school ladies who firmly believes in the TB over the WB. She also owns the yard I stable at.

I haven't taken him out with the exception of the beach since the last show. We are lucky enough to have a full house of facilities at our yard. This includes an XC course, which I did try yesterday and he was petrified to even go down the tiny 40cm 1 log drop to get into the area.
 
ycbm said:
Have you had him scoped?
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Yes, I am overly pedantic with my horses. He was scoped when he arrived with me and showed mild ulceration, so we treated with omeprocote. He was then scoped again in December after treatment and there were no more signs. Besides that ulcers normally show very clear signs and he shows none of them, which he showed before.
 
TheChestnutThing said:
Yes, I am overly pedantic with my horses. He was scoped when he arrived with me and showed mild ulceration, so we treated with omeprocote. He was then scoped again in December after treatment and there were no more signs. Besides that ulcers normally show very clear signs and he shows none of them, which he showed before.
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I think with everything you have so clearly described for us, I would be assuming that the original ulcers were caused by him being in pain somewhere, and that your good management of him since has prevented their return, but not stopped the pain.

Because of his age, I'd start by looking at his hocks as being the most obvious candidate.

My eventer who could be guaranteed to give me a clear xc suddenly refused at the first fence one day. I took him home and discovered he had spavin.
 
TheChestnutThing said:
Yes, I am overly pedantic with my horses. He was scoped when he arrived with me and showed mild ulceration, so we treated with omeprocote. He was then scoped again in December after treatment and there were no more signs. Besides that ulcers normally show very clear signs and he shows none of them, which he showed before.
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My pony has recurring ulcers. We scope, find ulcers, treat, re scope clear, then few months later they return. After £5k and extensive investigations the vet has finally admitted that she is 'predisposed' to ulcers and we will need to treat them for life. Unfortunately it is v common for them to return. Furthermore, you would never believe my pony has them. She is an absolute picture of health and not what you would expect for an ulcer prone horse. And it's a myth that's it's only thoroughbreds - mine is a Welsh Cob. Only giveaway is behavioural changes (sometimes very subtle) I'm learning to read the signs now, though when she was scoped a fortnight ago, vet asked me how she was doing and I told him she was fine and I was confident the ulcers hadn't returned. I was shocked to find she DID have them again, right at the end of her stomach where it goes into the hind gut. Absolutely no signs at all this time. It can be baffling and rather disheartening at times. My mare is rather stressy and although we have seriously analysed and tweaked her lifestyle, she is just programmed this way.
 
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You could be describing a horse I had to compete. He was a fantastic jumper then one day totally out of the blue he stopped flooring me. He then refused to even walk over poles on the floor and if I did get him over a jump her would jump through it. I had people telling me he was being a sod but in my mind horses don't change like that for no reason. Turns out he was a very genuine little horse that had kissing spines and PSD. My guess is he really caught himself in his back over a jump and therefore associated jumping with increased pain hence refused. After surgery he was back to his old self and jumping really well. If he's insured I would personally send in for poor performance work up as sounds like you have tried to methodically work through it without success.
 
Have you tried a course of bute? That will give you an indication as to whether the behaviour is caused by pain. I took over the ride on a very talented jumper in my early 30s who had been sold on for peanuts because he had started refusing without warning.

It turned out he had arthritic changes in his left shoulder and my physio said this would have been causing him a lot of pain on landing.

We never took him out properly jumping again, but he would happily play at home and on rides if he had danilon in his system.
 
TheChestnutThing said:
Yes, I am overly pedantic with my horses. He was scoped when he arrived with me and showed mild ulceration, so we treated with omeprocote. He was then scoped again in December after treatment and there were no more signs. Besides that ulcers normally show very clear signs and he shows none of them, which he showed before.
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My mare showed very subtle signs of pain but her ridden work suddenly changed, which I think is exactly the case with your boy, OP. Please check for ulcers and other causes of pain - back, hocks, SI joint etc. Sounds like he is screaming at you that the jumping is hurting and he doesn't enjoy it anymore. I understand that you have had checks before, but please check again!
 
SEL said:
Have you tried a course of bute? That will give you an indication as to whether the behaviour is caused by pain. I took over the ride on a very talented jumper in my early 30s who had been sold on for peanuts because he had started refusing without warning.

It turned out he had arthritic changes in his left shoulder and my physio said this would have been causing him a lot of pain on landing.

We never took him out properly jumping again, but he would happily play at home and on rides if he had danilon in his system.
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my vet told me that bute does not, apparently resolve pain from kissing spines and often not from SI either.
 
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