Horse has to go - what would you do? Loooong...

Sooty

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We bought Fraser (horse in sig) almost exactly a year ago. He was sold to us as a novice hack, and that is what he seemed to be over the summer. He has always had some quirks, such as cribbing on his rope when tied in the yard, and kicking out when eating/being rugged/being mounted and so on. This has got better over time, but he still does it occasionally. He is fine to catch, load, shoe etc but has turned into something as far from a novice hack as is possible to imagine!

Part of the problem is he has formed a very strong bond with Toffee, my daughter's mare (she is Troggy on here). In fact it got so bad that we thought he would injure himself when left in the field alone, so we got a miniature Shetland as company for him. Toffee only has to be outside the field, not even out of sight, and he gets hysterical. He was fine to hack over the summer, but over winter he has got very bad, bolting with OH who fell off and cracked a rib, (although to be fair, there was a bird scarer involved, so maybe not all horse's fault). However, last week daughter hacked him out with a very experienced eventer friend, and whilst they were trotting home Fraser did a massive fly buck (according to friend, daughter doesn't remember anything other than trotting alone one minute then being on the ground the next). That in itself is bad enough, but then he galloped home, crossing two roads in the process. Presumably, to get back to Toffee. Clearly this is not something we can tolerate, and the consequences could have been horrific.

The problem now is what to do with him. He clearly isn't suitable for hacking, and because of his conformation, and previous lameness issues which we found out about after we had bought him, he isn't suitable for being ridden in a school. His behaviour started to deteriorate after he started coming in at night, as previously they had been out 24/7 until 1st December. He has had his teeth, back and tack checked (in fact the vet came out again yesterday to see if there was a physical cause for his behaviour, and she says he is basically just being nasty). He has also been scoped for ulcers, in case there was a problem there.

We want to ensure his future somehow, and the vet recommended a horse charity or having him pts. If we sold him, there is no guarantee that someone wouldn't drug him and resell him as a sound horse, which he isn't. He spent half his life in a riding school which specialised in dressage, and before that was shown a lot as a youngster. He is 11 years old. Sorry this is so long, but I am at a bit of a loss and curious as to what others would do. Our options seem to be charity (which is possibly a non-starter as they are packed and it doesn't seem very fair), pts (probably best but very hard to contemplate) or sell (which would mean it would be impossible to ensure his future). He is apparently not suitable as a blood donor horse because of his behaviour in the stable.

Thanks for any replies.
 
I definitely wouldn't sell him for the reasons you state. And I agree with you re horse charities, you probably wouldn't get any to take him at the moment.
Can't you keep him yourself as a companion or have I missed something?
Other than those comments the hardest decision of all is often the kindest.
 
I would keep him apart from Toffee and see if his behaviour improves within a month or so.By separate I mean completely apart so that they can't get to each other at all,ideally sending one away to a different home to see if it helps.It sounds like severe separation anxiety which is probably caused because he has fallen in love with Toffee and he is preferring her company to the company of yourselves.
 
well the thing that stands out there was that you said his behaviour changed when he was coming in at night. So if being out suits him - chuck him out and keep him out. If you want him for hacking around then he'll be fine to do this whilst living out all the time. He doesn't sound like he's in hard work and needs to clipped or anything - and this might help his behaviour.
Was his flybuck maybe just excitedness for being out? I think if any horse ditched it's rider- they tend to run home - thankfully! but if he'd been out for the whole hack and hadn't shown attempts at napping to get home then unlikely to be a separation problem - as wouldn't he be problematic for the whole hack? it sounds a little like an unfortunate accident - unless he does this often and maliciously?
 
Sounds like a very, very difficult situation!

Is there any way he can live out 24/7? If he is better with 24/7 turn out he may chill out again. Alternatively is it possible to move him to a yard with a lot of horses where he won't be as attached to any one of them?

If he is attached to a mare is it possible he is being a bit riggy? I *think* there is something you can feed which helps with rig behaviour but I can't remember what it's called.

To be honest you have tried many reasonable things, e.g. health checks, getting a third horse, different riders etc. so I am not too sure that realistically there is much more you can try.

If you decide there is no more you can do for him I would suggest PTS. It is a very tough decision but with his challenging behaviour it will be tough to find him a permanent home and he is more likely to be passed around.
 
The usual stuff Sooty:

Look at his feed etc. compared to how much work he's getting......

Look at 24/7 turnout....

Look at ensuring he's exercised every day.....

Three horses are a nightmare - so it may be better to separate them all together.

And if all else fails - look for a good loan home for him. Don't sell him on. Charity won't take him (you wouldn't fall in to the catagory) and why would you pts?

Sorry, not much help.
 
I'd agree with chucking him out, and looking at separating him from the mare to see if those actions makes a difference before making a final decision.
 
I agree with the severe separation anxiety idea, and think he has fallen head over heels for Toffee, annoyingly, and she is the be all and end all of his life. Pair bonding is more likely when a mare and gelding are kept together, just the two of them, and sadly the miniature shetland won't cut the ice either, as he probably doesn't even register as a proper equine in his mind.

Also having spent time in a riding school I think adds to this problem, as he is used to being in a large 'herd' situation, and being reduced to a herd of just two and a bit, he is probably more insecure. I bought two old ponies from a riding school, one settled quickly but the other became a complete homing pigeon, and would attempt to bolt home given the slightest chance, with my child on board, unless he was in a group hack in which case he was ok.

Cant really offer any great advice, although he may well settle in a bigger yard with no chance of pair bonding. Could you put him out on loan perhaps? I think your vet is being a little harsh, as his behaviour is not so much naughty imo but based on his real fear of being separated from his best friend in the whole wide scary world.
 
I have three; one is ridden.
Mine are out at night time; they come in at 7am, go back out around 3pm.
Mine used to hate being seperated until I started bringing them in during the day, they are so much more chilled!
And as Sally says, look at feed.
 
I agree with llewelyn, I think your vet overstepped the mark a little calling him 'nasty' when she wasn't there to actually see what happened. All she can say is that he isn't in pain but really, she can't judge what might have caused the buck beyond that.

Don't write a loan off - if he gets over the separation, I for one would consider loaning a horse like this if finances permitted
smile.gif
 
I would start by changing my vet, how would she know he was being nasty when he has ditched someone twice, and anyone who puts those kind of ideas into your head is not worth bothering with? My coblet ditched me about 5 times and he didnt have a nasty bone in his body! I was in a similar situation 2 yrs ago when my tb developed bone spavin and meant he could not be ridden in the school, hacking out then became very exciting and he wanted to canter all the time - was he good to hack? Absolutely perfect bomb proof on the roads just he wanted to have fun and stretch his legs when on grass. I went down the loan route and found within 3 months they had turned my tb into a very depressed hatrack, I couldnt cope with this as he always looked very bright and healthy and upto weight with me even when out of work due to injury. I then buried my head in the sand and asked a friend to rehome him for me - massive mistake all i think of is what pain and torutre that boy is going through. I would see if you can get a sharer for him an experienced rider who will give him the exercise he seems, for your sanity i would try all kinds of options before putting him on an uncertain road where unfortunately not all horsey people care like we do!
 
You need to work on your relationship with the horse, he is acting like a horse and not really doing anything wrong.

Stop riding him and work with him on the ground instead, until he trusts you and wants to be with you as much as he wants to be with Toffee....she is obviously a safety blanket for him as he sounds quite insecure are humans.
 
Thakns everyone.

Feed - he is on ad-lib hay as there is no grass, and a handful of nuts and chaff. He cannot be turned out 24/7 as we are on clay soil, and it is a swamp. He cannot be ridden other than at weekends because we have no school, and even if we had, he goes lame with schooling. We do not have the facilities to separate them. I would not consider loaning him for various reasons. It could be that I am focussing on his bad points too much, but he has changed enormously since we got him (I kept a blog so I do know this isn't just my imagination). We have had the vet out to him numerous time, done blood tests etc, but basically he is just taking the piss now.
 
The vet witnessed Fraser trying to barge my daughter through a fence yesterday when she was trotting him up - he can be nasty, and he bites. We are with one of the stop equine vets in the country, and he has been seen by two from the same practice - I trust them and their opinion. My daughter is an experienced rider, she has been riding for over 22 years which is good enough for me! I think we know the difference between exuberance and unpredictable expolding.
 
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He cannot be ridden other than at weekends because we have no school, and even if we had, he goes lame with schooling

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Can you get a competent rider on him in the week though to ride him out - paying them by the hour to do so?
 
Well the most competent rider round here is a local event rider, and she has said she wouldn't ride him after seeing his behaviour when he ditched my daughter. She has ridden all sorts, and one of her horses was a confirmed rearer, and if she thinks Fraser is not safe, and is herself not willing either to ride him or hack with him again, I would not ask anyone else to. Supposing he did the same again, only this time ran straight in front of a car? It is not safe to have a loose horse careering for two miles across the countryside...
 
Maybe he could go to work in a large riding school that does hacking out in large groups? No schooling, Like a holiday one, forest, beach rides etc? If not, I personally wouldn't pass him on for my peace of mind. Poor you very difficult situation.

Just read your other post, if he kicks bites etc, I'm sorry but pts seem the best option, else he'll get pushed from pillar to post and suffer as he goes down the ladder.
 
Can i ask why his behaviour in the stabke would be an issue for a blood bank? Just curious as I looked into blood banks for Sidney and I know they are out for huge periods at a time in big herds. Not in anyway trying to suggest you are wrong, I was just interested as to why this is an issue?
 
In which case you've answered your own question - you don't want to sell, you don't want to loan, you know the chances of a charity taking it are slim. That leaves you one option.
 
Very good point! The vet said they have to be easy to handle, but tbh I think he is. He is excellent to catch and fine with needles, so I am not giving up on that potential solution just yet. Thanks
smile.gif
 
What a different picture you are painting now your original post suggested he was good but had ditched your daughter and your other half. Now you are saying he bites he's difficult to handle and that others have refused to ride him or ride with him. When you ask for advice people can only give it based on the information provided.
A severe change in personality would be alarming to me, I would try the seperation thing
 
Its worth looking at. I spoke to the manager of one blood bank for about an hour and the only reason we didn't go down that road with sid is that we didn't know how long his foot would cope with no bute and they can't be on any drugs.
From what he told me they live out in herd of about 30-40 horses and come in on a rotation system to give blood then go back out again.
I know its not for some people but i would have been more than happy for sid to go there if it wasn't for his foot issue.
 
It's not that I don't want to sell, I need opinions as to whether I should sell. Whether it is worth sticking him on Project Horses for example, although then I can't do anything about his home after next... I might be able to think more clearly if I hadn't been awake most of the night chewing all this over!
 
You won't find it on google due to the animal rights loonies.
I've not got the number anymore but it was a user on here that gave it to me as one of her horses is there.
Might be worth a post asking for pms of numbers?
 
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