horse hates being groomed/rugged, touched etc

[axe1312]

hiya, when grooming or touching my horse he will turn and try to bite, and kick, and will have his ears back, swish tail, and move around. being rugged he swishes his tail, puts his ears back and sometimes will kick out depending on his mood, sometimes also is fine being rugged. he is the pack leader in his field and nobody goes near him, dont if thats any use. hes been on painkillers, that havent made a difference, so its not pain. which leads me to think its behavior, trauma, anxiety, aggression, dominance etc. any advice? i only want him to feel happy, and when he acts like that its telling me hes deeply uncomfortable

 

[Barton Bounty]

Ulcers? Danilon or bute aggravates ulcers

 

[sbloom]

Painkillers only work on certain types of pain, it can only eliminate those. If there's no pain now then maybe it was in the past, I put money on ulcers which are always secondary to something else so the something else needs fixing too. We do see that many horses that are unhappy emotionally (feeling unsafe etc) will get physical pain eventually just as we do, and vice versa, and pain from ulcers (or anything else) can then make all the fascia tense and irritable so becoming reactive all over.

Horses in the wild have complex interrelationships and not the simple hierachy of dominance that so many talk about, dominance might be part of this pain/unsafe pattern too.

 

[axe1312]

Ulcers? Danilon or bute aggravates ulcers

oh, hes on bute. are there any other signs? my yo said he definatley doesnt have ulcers

 

[Horseysheepy]

He doesn't sound a happy chappy at all
Is this the horse you have been having issues under saddle with?

 

[nagblagger]

How can a yo say he doesn't have ulcers?

 

[Barton Bounty]

oh, hes on bute. are there any other signs? my yo said he definatley doesnt have ulcers

I wouldn’t take someone elses word for it, those are all signs of ulcers , I know from experience

 

[sbloom]

oh, hes on bute. are there any other signs? my yo said he definatley doesnt have ulcers

How does she or he know? It used to be thought that horses had to look poor, tucked up etc to have ulcers but they can look any which way at all. The only sure fire way to be sure is to scope, but you could at least try an ulcer friendly diet and to look at how you manage him, an unnatural life can be a big factor in ulcers but equally it can be triggered by an injury, which may be something sudden, or something that's been caused by a long term way of going.

 

[maya2008]

My first bet would be ulcers. Painkillers can cause them or aggravate them. Only way you can know for sure is to get the horse scoped by a vet.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Sounds like ulcer behaviour, I would get the vet out asap. We've had a horse exactly the same on our yard, same behaviour in the stable, bucking when ridden, really unhappy lady. She had a scope and yep, ulcers! Has been successfully treated now and she's a different horse. You really need a vet to check this poor horse, he sounds absolutely miserable and in a lot of pain.

 

[ycbm]

If it's not ulcers, afaik bute does not help with nerve pain and the last thread we had about a horse like this turned out, if I remember right, to have issues with the neck identified on x ray.
.

 

[sbloom]

He doesn't sound a happy chappy at all
Is this the horse you have been having issues under saddle with?

Having looked back I would assume so, and ALL this is part of the same pattern. I know you've got a physio etc but they're not seeing what are now screaming out as issues of pain/discomfort and dysfunctional movement. I posted in both your other recent posts about how he moves and would encourage you to see all this as part of a bigger issue that you need to get to the bottom of. Take the pressure off, see it as a learning experience, perhaps learning some groundwork etc to help him, but I would definitely say to get a second opinion from another bodyworker, you'll also need a good vet and take "he's ready to go back to work" with a pinch of salt.

There are too many professionals who deal with pain who don't look at movement and these patterns at all - find the pain, fix it, if you can't find the "seat" of pain then there's probably no problem, sending horses back into ridden work that are NOT ready to be ridden at all. Either the patterns of movement led to issues which triggered ulcers, if it's that, or something else triggered the ulcers and caused the horse to move in a compromised way giving the difficulty bending and the tail asymmetry.

I would definitely go back to the vet.

 

[maya2008]

Just had a thought… if not ulcers could be pssm. It often causes ulcers in itself, but causes painful muscles and general low level pain which can cause the reactions you describe.

 

[axe1312]

He doesn't sound a happy chappy at all
Is this the horse you have been having issues under saddle with?

yes it is, the physio and vet and others have looked at him. he is unbalanced and pulls from his front end rather than pushing from the back

 

[axe1312]

How can a yo say he doesn't have ulcers?

dont know, she just said he isnt showing the signs. he isnt girthy, isnt any more sensitive on the belly, if anything his belly and bum and his best parts, he has no issues with bucking or anything when ridden, just unbalanced

 

[axe1312]

I wouldn’t take someone elses word for it, those are all signs of ulcers , I know from experience

hes no girthy, and he doesnt buck. what type of ulcers is he showing signs for?

 

[Barton Bounty]

hes no girthy, and he doesnt buck. what type of ulcers is he showing signs for?

It doesnt need to contain all symptoms.. just one is enough and your horse is screaming ulcers,

 

[axe1312]

Sounds like ulcer behaviour, I would get the vet out asap. We've had a horse exactly the same on our yard, same behaviour in the stable, bucking when ridden, really unhappy lady. She had a scope and yep, ulcers! Has been successfully treated now and she's a different horse. You really need a vet to check this poor horse, he sounds absolutely miserable and in a lot of pain.

hes had the vet out, she didnt mention ulcers once, yes it wasnt our concern, but he was felt all over, temperature, heart, trot up etc. hes had that done twice in 4 months. he doesnt buck when ridden, and isnt girthy. the vet is out in a week again, as he now has laminitis. i can ask her opinion on ulcers, but so far everyone disagrees

 

[axe1312]

Its doesnt need to contain all symptoms.. just one is enough and your horse is screaming ulcers,

ill speak to the vet on her next visit in 6 days

 

[axe1312]

Just had a thought… if not ulcers could be pssm. It often causes ulcers in itself, but causes painful muscles and general low level pain which can cause the reactions you describe.

what other signs are there for that? and how is that tested for?

 

[axe1312]

If it's not ulcers, afaik bute does not help with nerve pain and the last thread we had about a horse like this turned out, if I remember right, to have issues with the neck identified on x ray.
.

he definatley d0oesnt like his neck touched. what about injected painkiller? hes had that as well, also didnt help

 

[Barton Bounty]

ill speak to the vet on her next visit in 6 days

How about meantime trying a supplement? You could try activated charcoal … or aloe vera juice as a temporary measure

 

[axe1312]

Having looked back I would assume so, and ALL this is part of the same pattern. I know you've got a physio etc but they're not seeing what are now screaming out as issues of pain/discomfort and dysfunctional movement. I posted in both your other recent posts about how he moves and would encourage you to see all this as part of a bigger issue that you need to get to the bottom of. Take the pressure off, see it as a learning experience, perhaps learning some groundwork etc to help him, but I would definitely say to get a second opinion from another bodyworker, you'll also need a good vet and take "he's ready to go back to work" with a pinch of salt.

There are too many professionals who deal with pain who don't look at movement and these patterns at all - find the pain, fix it, if you can't find the "seat" of pain then there's probably no problem, sending horses back into ridden work that are NOT ready to be ridden at all. Either the patterns of movement led to issues which triggered ulcers, if it's that, or something else triggered the ulcers and caused the horse to move in a compromised way giving the difficulty bending and the tail asymmetry.

I would definitely go back to the vet.

how much is a scope?

 

[axe1312]

How about meantime trying a supplement? You could try activated charcoal … or aloe vera juice as a temporary measure

what do they do? he is an horselyx mint lick for healthy hooves, muscles, digestion, coat etc

 

[Barton Bounty]

what do they do? he is an horselyx mint lick for healthy hooves, muscles, digestion, coat etc

None of those will help whatsoever,

Equimins Activated charcoal is only £19 per bag and I would feed two scoops a day as a loading dose for two weeks to see if there is any change.
Aloe vera is similar and settles the stomach too but a bit more expensive

Neither will cure ulcers but if you maybe tried a supplement and saw he had some type of relief it might indicate a direction to go

 

[Glitter's fun]

hiya, when grooming or touching my horse he will turn and try to bite, and kick, and will have his ears back, swish tail, and move around. being rugged he swishes his tail, puts his ears back and sometimes will kick out depending on his mood, sometimes also is fine being rugged. he is the pack leader in his field and nobody goes near him, dont if thats any use. hes been on painkillers, that havent made a difference, so its not pain. which leads me to think its behavior, trauma, anxiety, aggression, dominance etc. any advice? i only want him to feel happy, and when he acts like that its telling me hes deeply uncomfortable

For clarity , you're 15, this is your first horse, your parents are not 'horsey' but it is their decision to call in professionals like vet or physio etc. Did I remember that right?

 

[Glitter's fun]

I went back to read other threads.
So you've owned him since April. He had trouble settling in - you were convinced he was ill & very worried but the YO and your parents disagreed with you.
What is he like ridden now? When we spoke on a previous thread about his lack of suppleness on corners, you were going to get a professional rider to tell you if it was you or him. Did that ever happen?

 

[Hallo2012]

what do they do? he is an horselyx mint lick for healthy hooves, muscles, digestion, coat etc

that will be full of sugar and aggravating his stomach and/or making him bounce of the wall like a hyper toddler, its not a proper supplement just gimmicky marketing.

 

[Surbie]

what do they do? he is an horselyx mint lick for healthy hooves, muscles, digestion, coat etc

If he's already got laminitis and possibly ulcers, personally I would stop the horselyx asap too. He needs less sugar, not more.

I hope you can get some answers from the vet, but I would be feeding ulcer-friendly (and laminitis-friendly) diet right now to see if that makes changes, as suggested by others.

Is your horse on box rest now with the laminitis? And are you soaking his forage?

 

[Bobthecob15]

Scope is around £400-600 minimum probably more. Treatment etc over £2k if it is ulcers. Insurance would cover it assuming the horse is insured