HORSE HEART PROBLEMS - Help please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mellissa]

Hello there,

My horse was diagnosed on Thursday evening with Atrial Fibrillation of the heart

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He is an eleven year old Belgium Warmblood showjumper standing 17.2hh. My Vet said it generally occurs in big athletic horses with big hearts and that he will not be able jump the bigger tracks without running out of petrol (he has his newcomer second rounds in June)

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His heart is irregularly missing a beat, and his resting heart rate last night was 52 beats per minute.

He has been booked in next week to go to hospital for treatment with nasogastric applications of quinidine sulphate. I have been advised that side effects are depression, colic and liquid toilet. The drug is toxic and can cause cardiac arrest. It is supposed to "start" the heart back into its normal sinus rhythm. It may or may not work.

I am understandably very worried, just wondered if any of you out there have had this problem, had the treatment and what the outcome has been.

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[AmyMay]

God sounds awful.

Good luck for the procedure.

 

[Tia]

Please don't panic. Many horses have heart problems to which their owners are never aware.

I had a big 12 year old Selle Francais on my yard in England - he had exactly the same as your horse. He was graded as 4 out of 5 for severeness. He went for some tests and treatment. His owner was told to be careful with him for a while. She was and about 7 months later the vet re-checked him and moved him down to 1 out of 5. She was then allowed to carry on as normal.

It's not all doom and gloom.

 

[mellissa]

Thanks Amy May.

Means alot

 

[mellissa]

That is interesting Tia. Kevin is Belgian Warmblood but his parents were actually Selle Francais- his father was the great international Pachat II and his mother was an international horse by Fleuri Du Manoir.

Does make you wonder if it is in the breeding...But his siblings have all competed internationally so they must have been ok?

This just awful. I do not know if it is going to work and I am having awful worries about losing him.

They did not give him grades- did the horse you were speaking about have a murmur?

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[Tia]

Murmur and aterial fibrillation. I don't remember the breeding of the horse but same as you I know that it's relatives had competed at high levels.

Please try to remain positive. I know it's incredibly scary, it was for me when the horse I knew was going through it, and he wasn't even my horse. But it did turn out well in the end and also in a relatively short space of time aswell.

VERY best of luck to you.

 

[mellissa]

Thank you Tia. It is such a minefield- the heart is something you panic about.

Thanks for your advice.

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[AmyMay]

I have to say - and not jumping on the bandwagon as my little horse is simply not in the same class as yours. But Amy aparently has an irregular heart beat. It was picked up a few years ago when she was being checked for something.

It's never caused her any problem.

Just trying to give you something positive.

 

[mellissa]

Thank you Amymay. Do you remember if your horse had a second degree AV block or A Fib?

I see she is going to have a baby- you must be really pleased good luck with the foal. I do not have that option with mine, so if it does not work I suppose I will take up dressage.

Thanks, it is good to hear from others who have had heart problems in their horses.

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[Nari]

(((Hugs))), I hope it all goes well.

 

[kick_On]

Can you confirm whether your horse has murmor or atrial fib, or both?

If it is just a atrial fib, the treatment is dramatic, but if they can get the rid of fibrillation you'll get your horse back. If you have a murmor aswell treatment and outcome is guarded
Many racehorses and i've also known eventers to get atrial fibrillation and after treatment they continue with there original jobs.
And lead very healthy lives, so if your vets can sort out fib you'll get your horse back no problem.
Just be warn treatment is horrible and horse will need a bit of time to recover after treatment, mine was in vets for a week and i got back a hat rack back, but horse made full recovery. We hunted next season (hedgehopping proper) plus lots of hunter trial etc... never had problem with heart afterwards plus had condition dropped for exclusion clause in insurance policy aswell a couple years later

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Amymay. Do you remember if your horse had a second degree AV block or A Fib?

[/ QUOTE ]
No - it was never mentioned - the vet just commented that her heart beat was slightly irregular (almost in passing actually), bit it was not something for me to be concerned about.

 

[mellissa]

Thank you very much kick-on. It is only a-fib without a murmur. The ECG showed complete absence of p-waves and the wobbly line showing fibrillation.

I have kept a record of his heart rate each day, on Friday the pause was still there, and saturday but sunday and monday it was not. His heart was jumping around (like bongo drums), and each day this week the pause is back.

Upon initial discovery the pause did not go away even after my trotting him up and down (my heart was though!) and then my vet went and got the ECG machine.

My Vet says I can still work him until the treatment, he will just tire quicker. However, his resting heart rate was 52 bpm and I just cannot do it! I am going to hack him at the walk later as he is used to being worked 6/7 days- but I am so aware of his breathing it is so horrible.

I am so pleased you have experience of the treatment- I have been trawling the internet (not the best thing to do) and I am more worried each day. My Vet requested I am not to be present as he says Kevin may thrash around and the ECG will be going all over the place. I understand all the side effects and this makes it worse.

Really pleased for you it worked out, did you horse get colic? Did he take on the first try?

My Vet said if he does not convert by the third attempt (getting toward toxicity) he will come home and they will try again in two weeks.

We qualified for Blue Chip for the first time, his treatment is on Tuesday when we should be there!

 

[kildalton]

Keep us informed as to how you go. I've written papers on human A/F! Murmurs occur because of incompetant heart valves and in animals are graded according to severity. You don't necessarily have to have valvular problems along with the A/F.

 

[mellissa]

Thank you Kildaton- if you need any further research let me know and I can give you information as we progress. Bit like therapy for me I think! Do not know quite what to do with myself right now.

He has had the ECG, but not the Echocardiogram yet so we will not really know of any further problems which may have caused the AF. This has definately occured within the last few months, and my Vet says my horse is a classic case for this problem just to develop (no one tells you that when you buy an enormous show jumper).

Tuesday is the day for treatment. If you know something is going to work (albeit having to put your horse through colic and depression) it is not too bad. But not knowing is the worst.

Thanks to all of your for your kind words

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[JessPickle]

there was a horse at my yard who has something simular no one even knew until just a check up one day. and it has got less severe over the year so I wish you luck and hope all goes well

 

[Fahrenheit]

Good luck, I hope it all goes well, I have my fingers crossed.

I knew an International Show Jumper with a heart murmur, the horse lived until late 20's. Vets always liked to bring vet students to listen to the horses heart beat because he had 'a good example' of a leaky heart valve. Personally I wouldn't call having a leaky heart valve good but I think it was helpful for them to listen to this horses heart.

 

[dressagecrazy]

Only just seen this thread. Have Pmed you back mellissa.

The Quinidine treatment is severe & invasive it does have many risks. So i would urge you to have the treatment done by someone who's fully set up for a Long day & night. They started my horse at 10am in the morning & his last dose was at 10pm then he was monitored every hr. It was a huge wait off my shoulders knowing he was in the best place to have it done.

Even though my horse didnt convert, he has suffered no problems from the treatment.
There is also another method of electrical stimulation to convet A-Fib also its been being done in America & works the same as what we do for Humans. We where thinking of trying it at one point, but because of the Tacycardia he still would be un-rideable. Dont know if Mark has tried it yet or if he ever went down that road.

Also not all horses convert the fist time with Quinidine it can take another go.

Very best of luck will be thinking of you both. PM me if you need to talk.

 

[kick_On]

i was very lucky mine came right on first treatment. The treatment is very servere you really, really don't want to be there. Mine did become colicy after treatment but this through all the drugs and he was at vets so not a problem. He spent a week at vet recovering and only had one bount of colic and that was directly after treatment. I was also restricted to my visits, which was sad but looking back it was for the best. So be prepared for that one, and also he will be poorly when you get him home, but lots of TLC.
After treatment you wouldn't have know there was any problems and he was case iron belly and i had not further problems.
And as i stated a couple years later had condition removed from insurance policy. Every time vets was around yard i did have his heart listen too but never a problem
It's a high risk treatment, but if you don't do, you're left with horse that has to retire really and then you may have to make a decision you don't want to make

Please be brave IMO it's the way to go. The chap who was in charge of mine was also human heart chap aswell. I pray that they get it back on first treatment as the more treatment you get the more likely is that they can't sort and high risk.
Just ask vets what their success rate is and this will prepare you.....
please let us know how it goes and i do wish for the best.
As for recovery it's just lots of TLC and you'll get your old horse back
If you want to know more feel free to pm me

 

[mellissa]

Hello thanks for all your info. I my (stupid) research, I have seen this new electro treatment. However, the thing that worries me is that they have recently done an enormous Clydesdale and previously the only other heavy horse was 730kg. My Kevin weighs around that and I have not the faith unless it is for the tried and trusted. If they gave me the choice- and said we would like to trial it in the UK on my horse I could not do it.

It sounds awful but I am pleased others of you are able to give me their experiences on this- I am out of my depth it feels. I still cannot believe it has happened to my fantastic horse.

I trust my Vets they have looked after my horses for a long time, and in the past four years I have owned Kevin. They have full surgical facilities so he will be in the best place. I am to take him Monday evening, ready for the op on Tuesday. I am worried we will lose him more than anything.

There are no decent online resources that give the full facts on this subject, considering it is apparently so common. If anyone knows of any please pm me or put a message on.


Mellissa XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

[mellissa]

Just wanted to ask you kick on about insurance?

I phoned my insurers on Tuesday morning (NFU Mutual) who said it is covered. Just wondered really how long the insurers would keep the case "open". My vet said there is a risk on the heart converting back to AF in any period of time.

I listen to his heart everyday and am pretty experienced in doing this (I did an equine science degree) in order to check what is right and wrong. The question is; Do you check your horse's heart still everyday- i.e every day for a year or so? Or did you get your vet out every period of time post-op?

All these questions!!


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[kick_On]

For memory after op we started with a montly visit then moved out to 3 month then only every year as vet was doing flu vac so not special visit.
It depends on your own policy but mine you could make a claim on conidition, it was up to vets when they said that they finished treating condition, which i think was after 2 visits by vet for post op check but read you fine print in policy and check with insurance company.
Your vet is right about about AF can come back, in my case the horse had servere lymphic infection which was major factor in AF. Your vet is just pointing out all worst case.
I know it's very very horrible but if possible don't get to hotted up about check heart all the time after op, you'll have long recovery just lots of TLC and you really will know if something is wrong very quickly and there's not alot you can do if you pick up an AF again. I sorry to sound harsh but he either going to be fine and never had a problem or worst case keep going back to AF.
In this case you need to decide further with vets, BUT NOT AT THIS TIME, it's something to think about later
But IMO just conceratrate on tuesady and treat everyday as it come and i do wish you all the best.....
i know i've been there BUT there is light at the end of the tunnel - chin up

 

[Marbs]

Can imagine how you're feeling. Huge vibes for you and your horse and fingers crossed, hope it goes well.