Horse Intelligence

Penny Less

Penny Less

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Where would you put the horse on the scale of intelligence against other species( not including us)

Mine is. Apes
dogs
Cats
Dolphins
Birds i.e. parrots etc
Horses


think rats should be In there somewhere but not sure where

Think I may have set myself up here as totally thick !
 
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I'd put horses fairly near the bottom. Compared to many other large mammals I would say they are not the sharpest tools in the box. Once in a while I meet a clever horse but that's infrequent.
 
Lots of variations there (birds for example, look at the difference in intelligence between the raven and the hen) and intelligence is hard to measure - calculating intelligence is different to emotional intelligence, self awareness etc. Also there is a strong correlation between proportional brain size and measurable intelligence. The Sperm Whale has the largest brain in nature, and we know very little about them.

I have guinea-pigs and horses. I would say they are about equal in intelligence! ;) I don't think horses are hugely intelligent, but they appear more stupid than they are because of their flight instinct. Remember the horse that spooks at shadows is the one that survives the time that shadow turns out to be a mountain lion. I think cattle are more intelligent than horses, sheep less!

I also don't think dogs are as clever as cetaceans, elephants etc. They are not natural problem solvers, in the way an orca is, for example.

Also this quote always gets trotted out, but it's a goodun so I'll go right ahead.

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons.
 
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I teach a class called Individual Differences, which is the psychology of personality and intelligence. Intelligence, as a concept, is intended to look at the differences between different humans in terms of how well they perform on different things, such as language, spatial skills, mathematical skills etc. There's a whole lot of controversy about how good an idea it is to compare people in this way, given that someone can rank poorly on a standard intelligence test but be an exceptional artist, while at the same time someone else can have an IQ of 150, but be unable to interact socially.

Given it's a fairly poor tool in terms of comparing different humans, it's even weaker when you try to compare species. Each species has its own ecological niche, within which it is expert if it has not become extinct. So humans are irredeemably stupid trying to operate in a bat's natural milieu, given we can't operate by echolocation and we're useless at moving around in the dark and hanging upside down to sleep. We're also pretty stupid in a horse's ecological niche - we're not sensitive enough to detect predators, water and food sources by smell, we're completely hopeless at surviving for long periods of time on nothing but scrub grass, and we can't see in the dark.

If you want, you can use a similar concept of intelligence to compare *between* individual horses - some are clearly better at operating in their environment than others, although a lot of that is how much we handicapped them by our management.

If you want my opinion, horses are extremely adaptable, manage to survive our poor management and lack of understanding of their behaviour and needs, and, seeing some of the horses in e.g. Prince Fluffy Kareem, are exceptional beyond most human abilities at surviving in very adverse circumstances.

Now if you'd just like to get me started on the evidence base for "horsenality", everybody can get out the popcorn and it will be even better than Monday night telly :D
 
Cheers Brightbay, that explains what I was thinking far better than I could have said it. Breaking out the popcorn and looking forward to the next episode on "horsenality".

My horses know a huge arrange of commands (for lack of a better word), both verbal and physical and their ability to remember and learn new ones is simply awesome. I know memory is a horse survival tool, but it is certainly something we can use to our advantage and to the max.
 
We're only just learning to appreciate the value of emotional intelligence in creating a true AI :) While horses might not be able to memorize 1000+ human words or use a computer, they have the same emotional intelligence as parrots and dogs. Everyone remarks on how hypersensitive certain parrot species are to their owners and horses are no different. It's how they manage to thrive in the totally alien living situation we put them into. From an evolutionary perspective they're highly successful creatures and one of the few animals that humans have forged a working relationship with.
 
fattylumpkin said:
We're only just learning to appreciate the value of emotional intelligence in creating a true AI :) While horses might not be able to memorize 1000+ human words or use a computer, they have the same emotional intelligence as parrots and dogs. Everyone remarks on how hypersensitive certain parrot species are to their owners and horses are no different. It's how they manage to thrive in the totally alien living situation we put them into. From an evolutionary perspective they're highly successful creatures and one of the few animals that humans have forged a working relationship with.
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Well said!
And equally impressed by Brightbay's explanation.
Love the Douglas Adams quote, though I doubt the mice really are the most intelligent of all!
My offering...the particular intelligence of the native pony :D the smaller they are, the more evil their schemes!
 
Having had a mare who displayed the ability to read, I think some horses are very clever. She also appeared to choreograph high speed intricate dances for herself and two field mates. She was also fantastic at opening bolts and letting herself out when there was something specific she wanted to do :)
 
My Welsh sec A is definitely sharper than your average dog, no question about it. He's extremely sharp as an animal goes let alone a horse. He learns things almost instantly with very little repetition, and he's just so trainable. I had an Anglo-Arab who is on a par, intelligence-wise too. They were a right pair together...
 
Agree with Brightbay's excellent post.

I find it surprising when people say that horse's are not very intelligent as after 50 years, I'm still in awe of their complexity and sophistication.
 
I think they are intelligent until I call them to come in for tea and they are in the far field. They come to the nearest corner of the far field and stand there looking helpless, not being able to work out they need to go 40 yards away from me first to go through the open gate between the fields to come in. Sometimes they'll have a little run round and one of them finds the gate and then they all follow through but other days they just look at me as if to say 'we can't come in there's a fence in the way' and I have to go in and fetch one through the gate. They've lived in there for years, you'd think they would have worked it out be now.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Agree with Brightbay's excellent post.

I find it surprising when people say that horse's are not very intelligent as after 50 years, I'm still in awe of their complexity and sophistication.
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Me too :D
Also, mine has demonstrated on quite a few occasions that he knows how to go around obstacles to get food on the other side ;)

I think, with horses especially, and in contrast with dogs, we train them from when they're very small to be completely obedient and show no initiative at all. Remember, we punish them for "anticipation" in schooling or in lunging, we stable them and get upset if they work out how to get out. We use electric tape to make sure they're in the least interesting and stimulating paddock in case they injure themselves. We train constantly to have them waiting for our instructions but never taking the initiative or second guessing us. They always have to go over the jump, we punish them for taking the sensible option of going around. We punish them for detecting something we can't see or smell and reacting to it by spooking or trying to escape (the sensible option for a horse).

And then we say they're stupid. Well, we've put quite a lot of effort into making them that way...

I am delighted to say that my horse is told he's the smartest horse in Scotland pretty much every day, and he constantly shows initiative, good sense and quite an established sense of humour. I do spend quite a lot of time rewarding him for being creative, interesting and interactive though ;)
 
Gloi said:
I think they are intelligent until I call them to come in for tea and they are in the far field. They come to the nearest corner of the far field and stand there looking helpless, not being able to work out they need to go 40 yards away from me first to go through the open gate between the fields to come in. Sometimes they'll have a little run round and one of them finds the gate and then they all follow through but other days they just look at me as if to say 'we can't come in there's a fence in the way' and I have to go in and fetch one through the gate. They've lived in there for years, you'd think they would have worked it out be now.
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Yep, this is mine. If I open the gate to the next paddock where there is much longer grass and more shelter, his fieldmate shoots through like a racehorse on speed; mine then grazes alongside him but the wrong side of the fence until I physically show him that the gate's open. We joke that he's not really sure he's allowed in there and wants to play safe but actually I think he's a bit thick...

ETA - it's not just horses though - friend's dog sat at a closed gate waiting for her to open it even though the fences on both sides had blown down in the wind...
 
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Having just taken on a young adult rescue dog I find it very frustrating that it takes him so long to get the idea of what I want compared to how quick a horse learns as long as you're clear with your instructions.. Having written that I recognise that I probably need to be more clear with what I'm asking from the dog:D
 
Brightbay said:
I think, with horses especially, and in contrast with dogs, we train them from when they're very small to be completely obedient and show no initiative at all. Remember, we punish them for "anticipation" in schooling or in lunging, we stable them and get upset if they work out how to get out. We use electric tape to make sure they're in the least interesting and stimulating paddock in case they injure themselves. We train constantly to have them waiting for our instructions but never taking the initiative or second guessing us. They always have to go over the jump, we punish them for taking the sensible option of going around. We punish them for detecting something we can't see or smell and reacting to it by spooking or trying to escape (the sensible option for a horse).

And then we say they're stupid. Well, we've put quite a lot of effort into making them that way...
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Excellent post, very true. BUT, horses are, for the most part, willing for this to happen and that is what I see as the key to their success in some spheres. It doesn't work with oxen. "Throw myself over hedges at breakneck speed for YOUR benefit? LOL, jog on pal!" "A battlefield? Looks chuffing dangerous to me mate, you're on your own!"
 
OK, Clever Hans couldn't actually do mathematics, however he was very good at reading subtle clues from body language. So maybe not clever, but quite impressive in it's own way.

Corvids seem to be very high on the animal intelligence list. Plus cephalopods are more intelligent than they seem at first glance.

I think that having hooves holds horses back. It's a bit tricky to make tools etc... when you can't hold them. ;)

ETA - BB, please share your thoughts on 'horsanality.' :p
 
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