horse kicking out when lunging

[ducktails]

Have had such a pap day up the yard.

My horse who I have only had for 2 months injured her self 3 weeks ago and has been on box rest.. She has been given the all clear now and is due for turn out friday once the anti biotics are finished..

we have been walking her out in hand to try help her out with the boredom and this evening she kicked my other half in the nether region

We had only just left the yard and obviously had go turn around so I decided to take her in the indoor school and lunge her for a bit I was pretty fuming by this time.. anyway I just walk her for a while and then as I ask her to move away when she drifts in the circle she turns her bum in and gives me a mouthful of sand

She gave a couple more protests throughout the lunging including one pretty big rear.. I know its a lack of respect for me but what can I do to sort it?? How do I teach her that is wrong when she does it??

any info welcome.. sorry for the lack of grammer just frustrated

 

[ha903070]

Unfortunately I know how you and your other half feel, our young horse (a foal at the time) was on box rest and in-hand walking and she kicked me in the hip when I was leading her. Luckily she calmed down when she got to go back out but in hindsight we should have taught her some more manners at that time.

We did learn some parelli in hand with her and it seemed to help as she was so young and gave her some commands to focus on.

However it probably wasnt enough, and she is now a big 17hh mare and still displays naughtiness towards me handling/lunging. She kicked me again this winter same fashion as before.

I ended up having to get my instructor to come and give me 'leading lessons' with her, which started with him doing the leading as I was terrified of her. I can now 'control' her and have some more confidence growing but its ongoing and she still tried to challenge me.

She has always kicked out on the lunge. We dont do much of it with her she is safer to ride and works bettter. Groundwork/leading work has helped but its ongoing and I have to keep on top of it - she is dominant.

If it carries on i'd suggest some help as I let this go due to her being a baby but as I realise now its caused worse problems for me in the long run. Good luck.

 

[sandr]

I'm afraid my horse would feel the end of my fist / lunge whip if he kicked out at me.
Box rested and bored or not, its downright rude and dangerous.

 

[ha903070]

I wish it was as easy as that, I tried both the above and found it creates more aggression or fear from the horse and no respect. There's no easy answer.

I agree with the rude and dangerous part.

 

[Bens_Mum]

Not helpful maybe but please be careful. I tried to get my 17h gelding to work from the ground and he demonstrated similar traits (rearing, kicking out!).
I was encouraged to be firm and put pressure on him to make him do it and he came straight at me reared over my head and kicked me in the chest.
It was very controlled and I wasn't badly hurt-more terrified but I am very wary now.
It was definitely a matter of him being in charge not me but I didn't realise how dangerous Parelli etc could be before this. Sorry to be negative but I maybe naively had never had it occur to me that that sort of work could be dangerous.
Hope she is better tomorrow and your OH is ok

 

[tasel]

My horse used to do that, too... and all I can say is loads of groundwork exercise.

Leading - for starters. Lead your horse on a loose lead rope, and when you stop, she should, too. An energetic, almost startling stop would help. If not, a light pull normally does the trick. If she goes on, make her stop and back her several steps backwards to where you want her to be. Do that really often, and it works wonders.

My horse also used to buck and twist her legs towards you. If you can capture the moment, aim to have the end of the lunging whip (the cord bit) brush her tummy. That worked for mine, and from then on she bucked into other directions but me. Nowadays, if she bucks, I just do a calming "Shhhh..." noise, and she calms down.

 

[NR99]

I think the key here is that you feel threatened and therefore she threatens you, this will spiral into much worse behaviour if it is not dealt with, I think maybe you should invest in having someone there to give you confidence from the side of the arena or even lunging her first to show you how to stand your ground and not let her challenge you and it will all become easier. Good luck.

 

[ducktails]

Cheers everyone.. some points that scare the life out of me but some that are very interesting.

BB I do definately agree with you that its dangerous that is why I am desperate for help... I have only had this horse 6 weeks and I am certain its a show of power on her behalf made worse by the fact she has been stabled solidly for 3 weeks but it is not how I want my horse to behave. I am not afraid to teach right for wrong and dish out a few telling off. Just so I know for the future though would you have struck her accross the arse? I did not give in when she bucked into me on the circle but it was unerving... she is unaware of my space..

How do I create the divide between mine and hers??? The vet found the same when he came she squashed him up the wall. I must say though she is normally very very good to lead and although sometimes "marish" not dangerous.

 

[ducktails]

Nicki I know you are right and I am not too proud to admit it she is way to big to be throwing shapes! It has been my intention since buying her but she got kicked.

I have lunged her since the start and she was responding to my voice before she got kicked.. she has however once kicked out at me before.

For those more experienced, in the future when she falls in on the lunge what should I do and then in return is she kicks out at me what should I do???

 

[sandr]

I am by no means an expert, i suffer hugely with nerves, and for a short while, my horse took the p*ss out of me, rather like yours is doing now. I managed to get a very good instructor who showed me to take a deep breath and stand up to him. Horses need leaders, not friends.
Yes, as soon he he starts to snake towards me, he get an almighty wallop on the shoulder with the whip, never go for the face, but the shoulder, then drive him away by cracking it behind him, smacking if you have to.
I don't want to sound like a horse beater, but they need to learn who's in charge, and since i stood up to mine, we have a much better relationship, he respects me as his 'leader'.

 

[sandr]

Where abouts are you?

 

[ducktails]

Lichfield.. bout 20 miles north of Birmingham..

 

[Bowen4Horses]

QR
sounds like a nightmare for you. poor you.

i can't help with the kicking stuff (i'd poo my pants and cry in the corner...) but i can tell you about my lunging...

i wrote a post on here a while ago entitled 'help, i'm the world's worst lunger' as my usually wonderfully behaved horse went CRAZY on the lunge and kept running towards me. i thought i knew how to lunge, i'd always done a good job in the past... but i couldn't work out how to get him out of my 'space'. i tried pointing the whip at his shoulder, like i thought i was meant to... but he just ran into it, then when it hit him, he went mad, thinking i'd hit him...

anyway, to cut a long story short. i got my instructor to watch me lunge, and tell me what i was doing wrong. she is an ace lunger... it turns out i was just doing very small things wrong (eg looking at the wrong part of his body) and when he came towards me, my first instinct was to stop him treading on the lunge rein... which meant i'd step back or shorten it (without even realising i was doing it). literally after 5 mins with my instructor i was able to lunge him well, control his speed, and stop him running towards me etc... now, when he comes towards me, i step towards him and say 'out' and he listens. i think i was just giving him the wrong cues.

have you got someone that can watch you and give you some tips?

good luck with it all! xxx

 

[ducktails]

Clipclop..

I will get a lunge lesson as soon as her leg is given the thumbs up.. It would be nice to rule out any mistakes I am making before completely blaming it on her..

 

[Bowen4Horses]

[ QUOTE ]
Clipclop..

I will get a lunge lesson as soon as her leg is given the thumbs up.. It would be nice to rule out any mistakes I am making before completely blaming it on her..

[/ QUOTE ]

good luck! the funniest thing about my little lunge lesson was the fact my instructor had to stand directly behind me (so horse only saw one person...) and wrap her arms round me to hold the rein... it was like a giant cuddle....!

 

[Brandysnap]

Hi ducktails,

From an outsider's view, which is all a forum friend like me has:

a) You haven't had the mare long - so she's not settled, you don't know each other
b) She's unfortunately been confined to box rest shortly after you had her.
c) You were 'fuming'. Oh dear, maybe not best attitude...more questions on this theme, i suspect, if this thread continues.

(How exactly did she sustain her injury? Good thing is that vet says ok to turn out when antibiotic course finished? So no suspected tendon/ligament injury? So why box rest?)

Oh shut up + get back to topic BS!

Right, blunt view is that the mare is off her tits at the moment, cos she's stressed to her poor eyeballs, bless her. I'd give the mare a month, turned out, to settle in her new environment, and new friends, before i'd start with a hack with a friend on a horse she knows from her own herd, and take it quietly.

But my most important suggestion is to get the advice of BHS or ABRS trainers, or anyone else who you trust.

Hope this helps, BS x

 

[kellyeaton]

ya mine now and again decides he is giong to buck in my face i just tap his front legs with the lunge whip he soons goes back on to all his four hoofs!

 

[ducktails]

Hey BS,

Everything you are saying is right sort of.. She has definately had enough of being boxd up and I was fuming because she kicked my Boyfriend and was generally being a cow however i was not fuming in the sense of pulling her around, more in the mind set of grrr if you know what I mean??? Although I would say that if I ever arrived at the yard in that mood I probably would not attempt to ride or lunge for fear of taking it out on her.. geez sorry now who has digressed hehe..

Anyway update.. the vet came today and gave us the all clear so this morning we sedated mildly and turned her out... BS she was on box rest because of an infection to the extensor tendon which was not diagnosed until she had already been in for a week with a kick to the knee!

Before turning her out the vet suggested we take the sting out of her by lunging her.. soooo take 2 and it went much better.she did stop and turn her bum on me but by just positioning my self towards her rear and not getting too infront when she stopped I was able to send her on. I then found the trick to stopping her from swinging her bum was to just keep driving forward. Now I am sure this is not the end of the battle but it is nice to have an argument that I win and by the end she was lunging nicely without any threatening behaviour.

With regards to turning her out for a month?? Do you really think this is the thing to do she is only 6 and is a horse that very much needs work. I know we are still a while away from that bond but by leaving her unridden do you think I will just create more problems?

 

[Brandysnap]

Hi again ducktails (love the name!)

Great news that she hasn't a more serious problem with tendon/ligament, etc - not that infections can't be very serious (oh dear, digressing again!). I mean - great news that vet has given her the all clear.

I personally have a morbid dread of the words 'box rest', as they all come out of their prisonment, totally barking mad, and it's us lot who have to hang on to them, risking life and limb!

Totally agree with your self-taught lungeing technique, ie staying at her hip area and driving her forwards - you've cracked it!

My reason for saying turn her out for a month is that this, to my mind, is the safest way for everyone (especially bearing in mind she hasn't a tendon or ligament problem).

I was taught (back in 1723)

that the safest way to turn a horse out after being stabled for a long while was either on good grass (so he/she gets there head down - but what of risk of sudden change of diet?) or poor grass, so they have to rummage, so it keeps them occupied.

Either way, turning out helps prevent danger to male bits from an extremely fresh horse when lungeing... (and all our heads!)

I also believe that horses are at their best when kept as naturally as possible, and also believe that all horses should live out (with shelter/rugs, as appropriate).

Re your question in your last para - i actually think that a spell in the field does them good, + helps them to chill out. Suspect you're both feeling under pressure right now. Chuck her out, let her do what horses do, bring her in for a quiet hack next week with a quiet friend, maybe? There's no rush, my friend. Just enjoy getting to know each other, you've got years of friendship before you.

I've never known a horse yet that didn't work better when us humans think along these lines. I bought a barking mad TB 4 year old, my trainer couldn't get near him! We were both despairing. So she said 'you're just going to have to sing to him'!! Louis Armstrong's 'We Have All The Time in the World' was out at the time, so i sang it in time with his bucks!!! Horse turned out to be best i've ever had.

My best advice still has to be to pay for a GOOD local trainer, who can set you on the right lines. It's money very well spent.

Good luck, thanks for asking me more, with my best wishes, BS x

(PS: Alternative is say to vet - ok, you lunge her then..... + i'm not paying you to do it!!) (

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