Horse kicking when mounted

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Twiglet

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Have got a 6 yr old ISH x WB who has never been the best to mount (back, teeth, saddle all checked and all fine). He is fine to tack up and under saddle, he can just be a pain to mount - from a fixed mounting block he'll swing his quarters away or go backwards.

So a few months ago implemented a new tactic of mounting from a moveable stall - every time he moved, I moved the stall, so he learned that it didn't get him anywhere. He's definitely got better, and is now relatively quick to stand - although he has developed a new habit of kicking out at me when I'm standing beside him to get on. I think it's a bit of a frustration thing - it annoys him immensely that he can't 'get away' from the stool (that's the point!) and as he can be a bit of an opinionated dumbblood teenager, I think this is a reaction to it.

I'm not sure how to improve the situation though - last week he aimed a kick at me that would have caused a lot of damage had I not got out of the way in time. I smacked him with a schooling whip, accompanied with a lot of growling, then took him in the school for a bit of a reminder of groundwork (backing up, moving away from pressure, generally reminding him he is not in charge), before trying to mount again - and he was fine.

Next day I went to mount and again he tried to kick. It's his default reaction to things he doesn't like - he regularly aims them at the yard dogs (he's going to be interesting to take hunting!) and in the field if he's not getting his own way. He's not a nasty or stressy horse generally - quite the opposite - but does have a bit of a temper on him.

I'm not sure where to go from here....do I ignore it and hope it stops (and work on my reaction times!)? Or use the whip (I'm not talking about beating him here!) which seems to annoy him all the more. Or any other mounting tips?

Sorry for long post!
 
My warmblood did that, and he had back problems. Not trying to worry you as there could be another explanation. But I would be inclined to rule out pain, before passing it off as being naughty.
 
Thanks. I can try another back person but he's been done quite recently and all was well....he's also working better than ever under saddle, which makes me think he's not in pain. He's also tried to kick when annoyed at things like sheath washing (ok, I understand that one!) and when he was stressed at a comp. It's not a habit I want him getting into.
 
Twiglet said:
Thanks. I can try another back person but he's been done quite recently and all was well....he's also working better than ever under saddle, which makes me think he's not in pain. He's also tried to kick when annoyed at things like sheath washing (ok, I understand that one!) and when he was stressed at a comp. It's not a habit I want him getting into.
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My Boy was checked by a back person, who thought he was fine.
I wasn't convinced so put him on a bute trial and he totally changed. So vet decided he needed x-rays which showed ligament damage and mild kissing spines. That type of problem will only show up on x-rays.
For quite a while he was fine under saddle, but always hated being mounted.

But like you say could just be a youngster trying his luck. It's always difficult to tell really. I'm not one to jump to the conclusion that it MUST be pain. But for the sake of a few hundred quid might be worth getting x-rays done. You'd spend that getting back people and saddle checked anyway.
 
Out of curiosity - what is he like if you mount from the wrong side? or have to re-mount while out on a hack? Perhaps this is a partly excitement /anticipating reaction??

I used to ride a mare who would cow-kick as anyone mounted, and having ruled out pain etc etc we put it down to her establishing that it was a sure-fire way to put off riders. I used to ignore it and mounted quicker (I had the advantage I could mount from the ground) and she soon stopped doing it with me, but would still try it on with anyone new.

Good luck
 
NO excuse, ever, for a horse aiming a kick at you. Don't care if he's sore, he should not be aggressive towards people. There are other ways of expressing himself; this is just bad temper and should not be tolerated.
 
timefort said:
Out of curiosity - what is he like if you mount from the wrong side? or have to re-mount while out on a hack? Perhaps this is a partly excitement /anticipating reaction??

I used to ride a mare who would cow-kick as anyone mounted, and having ruled out pain etc etc we put it down to her establishing that it was a sure-fire way to put off riders. I used to ignore it and mounted quicker (I had the advantage I could mount from the ground) and she soon stopped doing it with me, but would still try it on with anyone new.

Good luck
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Interesting - from a fixed mounting block he's fine to mount from the offside. I really think it's because he's not so bright, he doesn't associate it with being mounted.

He's heading for 17.1hh now so mounting from the ground isn't as much of an option unfortunately :p
 
Cortez said:
NO excuse, ever, for a horse aiming a kick at you. Don't care if he's sore, he should not be aggressive towards people. There are other ways of expressing himself; this is just bad temper and should not be tolerated.
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Yes, thank you, this is why I'm posting.....

(and I don't agree that if it was pain he would know to express it another way).
 
What's he like after you've ridden him for 20 minutes, can you dismount and remount easily or does he still kick out. I would be inclined to have a schooling session and get on and off several times during the session.

My current horse is a bit tricky to get on as he's impatient but he's getting better and I try to give him a treat if he stands still.

Also have you ruled out ulcers? What is he like to brush in the girth area? If he's showing discomfort it could be that the tugging when you get on is annoying him?

Just a few things to think about.
 
I think maybe your horse is trying to tell you something. I know of a horse that started doing this, he had supraspinous ligament damage. May be worth getting him checked by a vet rather than a back person.
 
dixie said:
What's he like after you've ridden him for 20 minutes, can you dismount and remount easily or does he still kick out. I would be inclined to have a schooling session and get on and off several times during the session.

My current horse is a bit tricky to get on as he's impatient but he's getting better and I try to give him a treat if he stands still.

Also have you ruled out ulcers? What is he like to brush in the girth area? If he's showing discomfort it could be that the tugging when you get on is annoying him?

Just a few things to think about.
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Scoped for ulcers (as is a windsucker) - to be told his stomach was 'textbook'. Fine to groom, to girth, tack up etc.

Have tried getting back on during or after schooling or out hacking and he's ok - it's like by that time he's in the working mindset.

He passed a 5 stage vetting 11 months ago, flew flexion tests etc, and was awkward to mount then too.
 
Is your girth elasticated at one end only? If so, it could be allowing the saddle to slip slightly as you mount or even pinching slightly. I presume you tighten your girth after mounting which would make the saddle more secure when you mount a second time.

Just a thought!

I agree that kicking out at you is not acceptable, but horses usually only react from pain or fear so if this is the only way he can get his message across, it is understandable. Finding the cause is preferable to punishment.
 
Shouldn't be kicking at you even if its pain... so I agree with using the schooling whip to discourage him.

Have you considered getting a thermal scan done on him? Can show up problematic areas. Have you considered using an animal communicator? I have done on several occasions when I have had a problem, and they have helped me get to the bottom of the issue.
 
Tammytoo said:
Is your girth elasticated at one end only? If so, it could be allowing the saddle to slip slightly as you mount or even pinching slightly. I presume you tighten your girth after mounting which would make the saddle more secure when you mount a second time.

Just a thought!

I agree that kicking out at you is not acceptable, but horses usually only react from pain or fear so if this is the only way he can get his message across, it is understandable. Finding the cause is preferable to punishment.
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Is elasticated both ends, comfort girth.

I'm not sure, it does seem to be a bit of temper where he's concerned. He's enormously laid back about the majority of things but does have a bit of an attitude streak, which I'm putting down to his age - he was a very pleasant and amenable 5 year old but now he's growing up he seems to question things a lot more!
 
Don't mean to throw the 'cat among the pigeons' but Twiglet did ask for suggestions.

Try going on the Monty Roberts website; he has some good tips/advice for mounting problems.
 
Cortez said:
NO excuse, ever, for a horse aiming a kick at you. Don't care if he's sore, he should not be aggressive towards people. There are other ways of expressing himself; this is just bad temper and should not be tolerated.
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I agree with this when people listen to what the horse is trying to tell them, the horse has been moving away from a static mounting block, so a mobile one has been used instead-IF this horse is sore it has been trying to tell the rider.

I would speak to vet possibly try a bute trial but they dont always work as some horses have remembered pain.
 
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