Horse lame after shoeing - pics

[reen2020]

Please could I have your thoughts on my horse's feet?

I've unfortunately had to change farriers a few times due to moving around. Had a new one today (6 weeks since last shod) and he is very lame, even in walk. I haven't had this happen before - is it most likely to have been a case of taking too much off? How long would you expect to see an improvement - have obviously kept him in tonight, off the hard ground.

Any general insights into his feet would also be appreciated, aware they are far from perfect but am the first to admit to lack of knowledge in this area. Event line on hinds will be from having had the back shoes off for a few months.

First 6 pics last night, then 4 from tonight post shoeing.

 

[AmyMay]

Hopefully you’ve rung the farrier and vet for advice. We’re you advised to give Bute?

 

[Slightlyconfused]

You need to speak to the farrier and vet, could be anything.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Do you have a pic of full horse stood up? They look all kinds of funky angles, which may look better if you can see more angle of pasterns etc.

Poss he reshaped too quickly and horsey is now sore from a different kind of pressure on rest of body.

 

[Frano]

Speak to the farrier. Possibly nail bind. Or did he cut the toe back to much.

 

[Patterdale]

If very lame instantly from farrier leaving it’s usually nail prick - nail in the white line.
If ok instantly but gradually becoming lamer over hours then usually nail bind - nail too close to white line.

Either way I’d have the farrier straight back out.

 

[lynz88]

Agree with others - chat to farrier and could be nail bind. On another matter, I would personally be keeping an eye on those low heels...

 

[ycbm]

To be blunt, but you did ask, the feet are a problem, especially the back ones. I hope your new farrier really knows what he's doing and can improve them. The backs, looking at the bullnose on the front profile, are a shoe-in for negative coffin bone angles. I'd be very wary of back pain, SI and hock/ PSD issues if that's the case and it isn't resolved soon.
.

 

[reen2020]

Thank you all - yes having Bute and farrier back.

@ycbm I appreciate the bluntness! He has had those feet x rayed and coffin bones on the edge but ok; extremely thin soles. He also definitely has an old pelvic racing injury and I'm very careful with him but maybe this is the push I need to do a full work up and see whether he needs any extra medical support. Usually he's sound and happy and I do as much strengthening work with him as possible.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm no expert by any means but those nails look quite high up the hoof wall to me, does anyone else think this or am I wrong?

I'd be looking at giving him a chaff like Healthy Hooves molasses free to support his feet although this will take months to see any difference, I would also be treating them with some hoof moisturiser in the mean time.

I'd be worried about the rings on his hooves too. This can be an indication of previous laminitis so I'd drastically cut down on his turnout space by strip grazing him, especially with the October flush of grass next month and the crazy weather we've been having, next week is set for rain so lots of grass in these warm conditions.

Don't despair though, there is a lot you can do to remedy the situation. x

 

[ycbm]

Thank you all - yes having Bute and farrier back.

@ycbm I appreciate the bluntness! He has had those feet x rayed and coffin bones on the edge but ok; extremely thin soles. He also definitely has an old pelvic racing injury and I'm very careful with him but maybe this is the push I need to do a full work up and see whether he needs any extra medical support. Usually he's sound and happy and I do as much strengthening work with him as possible.

You've no idea how pleased I am that your vet did x rays. I have seen too many horses standing camped under with bull nosed feet whose vets say "he's not lame there's no problem"

Weak heels and thin soles are a tough combination because the soles make barefoot so difficult to use to fix the weak heels.

If he hasn't had one I would add a Cushings test to the investigations, just in case that would explain the thin soles.

Is his diet tuned for foot health? Low sugar, high copper/zinc, no added iron/manganese?
.

 

[katsa22000]

Yes the weak soles are such a catch 22 as makes it so difficult to take his shoes off. I'd love to and my old TB was barefoot but this one struggles much more. I had wanted to give it a go last winter which is why he had the backs off for a while but just couldn't cope as then he also gets sole retraction which compounds the thinness.

I hadn't heard of a cushings/ thin sole connection, thank you. That's an easy enough test to do.

Feed wise he is on Spillers, will attach composition and be very interested in any expertise as regards mineral levels. I've considered doing grazing analysis but again as have had to move around a bit it hasn't happened yet.

Over time I've become a bit reserved with supplements but open to rave reviews of any foot health ones that have made a difference. Balancer has biotin but does also contain manganese.

Re nails yes I had the same thought last night and think that was a big factor - worst foot was the one with that one really high up nail. He's been reshod this morning with smaller nails and lower down and is much happier thankfully.

 

[lynz88]

I use the Forage Plus Winter Hoof & Skin (I do for the [albeit minimal] vit e addition) on my barefoot tb and keeps him sound. As soon as he's run out his sole goes crumbly and he becomes footy. I don't bother with biotin as I understand that horses can make their own if fed the correct building blocks

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Looks like his took the toe back considerably which to be honest they needed it but when it's that drastic some don't cope.

Hopefully he will do a better job than the last farrier has because they were not great before.

 

[katsa22000]

Looks like his took the toe back considerably which to be honest they needed it but when it's that drastic some don't cope.

Hopefully he will do a better job than the last farrier has because they were not great before.

Could I ask what you mean by a better job? In terms of in conversation and practically with new farrier what I should watch out for? I just quite often see a comment on threads about needing to do a better job but without specifying exactly what should be prioritised - just trying to learn!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Could I ask what you mean by a better job? In terms of in conversation and practically with new farrier what I should watch out for? I just quite often see a comment on threads about needing to do a better job but without specifying exactly what should be prioritised - just trying to learn!

The toes look long and under run heels so your last farrier probably wasn't trimming the toe back enough.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

To be blunt, but you did ask, the feet are a problem, especially the back ones. I hope your new farrier really knows what he's doing and can improve them. The backs, looking at the bullnose on the front profile, are a shoe-in for negative coffin bone angles. I'd be very wary of back pain, SI and hock/ PSD issues if that's the case and it isn't resolved soon.
.

Agree with you looks a bit like my mares feet before I got the barefoot trimmer, looks underrun and the lines are coming down at a sharp angle instead of a straight line to the heels as explained in this video.

Some of the toes are too long too.

What is it with some farriers these days, they should not be making poor trimming/showing like this. I mean we pay enough for the treatment of shoeing, they are qualified and should be doing a better job than some are doing like in my recent mares issues, which will take a year to improve and get her feet to the best we can.

 

[Landcruiser]

I apologise in advance for the next 2 paragraphs:

They are weak, under run feet OP. The toes are far too long, the heels are squashed and stretched forward and doing nothing to support the horse, meaning that all dynamic forces are also wrong. I imagine a shot of the sole would show poor, contracted frogs, soggy weak heel bulbs, maybe a bit of thrush and white line disease. Possibly the new farrier doing something a bit different was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it would have happened at some point (and probably been called "navicular" and you'd have been advised to add wedges to the mix). The horn quality looks poor but I've seen worse. This has been caused by incorrect trimming over a long period, plus questionable nutrition, amongst other things.

The spillers food is unfortunately like junk food. Molasses, cereal meal, genetically modified soyabeans, all sorts of other stuff I wouldn't put near a horse. Alfalfa isn't great either. OP of you are serious about helping this horse you need to educate yourself about what a healthy functioning foot looks like, and how to feed and manage a horse to achieve it. This is a good place to start: https://hoofgeek.com/

I'm not judging OP, I'm just speaking as someone who set out with horses 15 years ago with no clue about hooves, feeding, any of it. I just had a gut feeling that shoes weren't the way to go. 10 years later I was trimming my own and competing barefoot and winning too. It's a long journey with some very steep learning curves and slips and trips and wrong choices along the way but it's worth it, and it's just good sense to know what you are looking at when you look at a hoof, and to know as far as possible how to maintain hoof health.

 

[nikkimariet]

These need some serious intervention, please don’t go back to whoever has been doing them previously.

 

[paddy555]

Could I ask what you mean by a better job? In terms of in conversation and practically with new farrier what I should watch out for? I just quite often see a comment on threads about needing to do a better job but without specifying exactly what should be prioritised - just trying to learn!

:

They are weak, under run feet OP. The toes are far too long, the heels are squashed and stretched forward and doing nothing to support the horse, meaning that all dynamic forces are also wrong. I imagine a shot of the sole would show poor, contracted frogs, soggy weak heel bulbs, maybe a bit of thrush and white line disease. Possibly the new farrier doing something a bit different was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it would have happened at some point (and probably been called "navicular" and you'd have been advised to add wedges to the mix).

The part I have highlighted is the most important point. The lack of support. If you look at your first pic. it is a good example as to how far forward the foot is. The support that the heel gives is way way forward. The whole foot is too far forward. The whole foot needs to be much further backwards so it is actually giving support underneath the horse. The horse is "behind" it's foot.

much of the rest of LC's description of problems follow on from that.



If you don't want to remove the shoes then I would do a lot of reading about barefoot in order to learn how a correct foot should be. (not suggesting you remove the shoes) then next time the farrier is out (armed with a lot more knowledge) ask him to explain the feet to you, does he think they are good/bad have problems and how he is going to correct them. You will then have a better idea as to where he is going.

Take identical pics after each shoeing of the horse standing square and a straight sideways view with the camera on the ground. That way you should start to see improvement in the angle.

I use equimins Advanced complete and get excellent hoof quality and growth.

 

[sbloom]

Do also bear in mind that how the horse moved affect how the hoof grows too. So often, especially seen clearly in barefoot hooves but also applies to shod, improving the horse's posture and way of going improves the feet, equally progress with posture can be held back by poor hoof balance, most usually negative HPA behind.

 

[reen2020]

hi all just wanted to update in case any interest - finally found a lovely farrier who is completely on the same page and was first to suggest taking shoes off for at least 6 months. they came off today having had a chance to grow out a bit after that disastrous last shoeing - I felt liberated when the last one was off! he's happy out in the field so will give him time and then see how he copes with riding. I also put him straight on the equimins supplement that was suggested + extra biotin. thank you all for your comments - I knew there were issues but had struggled with non-communicative/ dismissive farriers and appreciate the time everyone took to reply.

 

[reen2020]

Hi again - forgive me for resuscitating this thread! I wondered whether anyone would be up for some feeding advice?

Message received re Spillers (and actually basically every other brand!) and I've been today and spent half an hour looking at every label in the feed shop. I left with Dengie Meadow Grass just as a base and Coolstance Copra + Linseed for conditioning (horse is a poor doer in winter but has good turnout with great grass atm having just moved onto rested field and gets ad lib hay). Have people had success/ not with this kind of feeding approach? I really want to get it right to give him the best chance of growing quality new feet and quietly hoping with the right support his thin soles could improve too.

Re balancer he's on the Equimins Advance Complete but have also read good things about Pro Hoof (e.g. Rockley recommendation)

 

[Barton Bounty]

Copra and linseed will be perfect for weight gain and conditioning for winter!