Horse loading problems - runs of horse box

[Abbeyandersonflynn]

Hi, so my big ID gelding has now decided that he will happily load on to a 3.5ton or lorry but wont stay on. As you turn him to tie him on he bolts back off it and runs away. He travels fine once loaded and walks of fine once we've arrive to where ever where going. what can i do to stop him bolting of ?

Thanks

 

[AdorableAlice]

I am impressed a big ID will even go into a small box.

I think a dually and ground manners is the way to go to deal with what is a very dangerous habit/bad behaviour.

How is he in a lorry.

 

[Abbeyandersonflynn]

Hi, i first thought that it was to small but i got some one to video him going in and theres plenty of room for him to fit in his bum in no where near touching the back of the box.

I have just bought a dually for him the other week and unfortunately dont have a box of my own to practice with him. think ill need to hire one for the day and just have him walking on the ram and then backing him off and getting further on it and doing the same until he learns not to run off.

He is the exact same in a lorry runs back off but travels fine.

 

[Damnation]

Ground manners and a good pressure halter/bridle/dually.

Does he get away from you when he bolts? What does he do when he actually bolts? Does he go to his mates? Back to his field? His stable? Eats at a grass verge?

I my eyes you have change this reaction in his head. There is obviously a desirable outcome for him when he bolts out, i.e you let go and he grabs a few handfuls of grass, he gets away from you and gets to fly around having a jolly etc.

Once you have figured that out, you then need to make bolting a "bad" experience for him. I.e, he tries to bolt but doesn't get let go of or the pressure halter kicks in and makes it uncomfortable for him, he doesn't get that desirable outcome.

Groundwork is key here. Is he bolshy on the ground? Bargey in his stable etc?

This is the trouble when people won't enforce proper ground manners all of the time. Things like, moving back when the stable door opens not having to push past them, making them wait for feed instead of sticking their head in the bucket before you put the feed down, letting them drag you to grass etc. It is all about the horse respecting your space otherwise these behaviours can escalate and with half a tonne of animal equipped with feet and teeth, those poor manners are not an option for me. Once the headcollar is on their head, they should behave. End of.

 

[Abbeyandersonflynn]

Ive not dried the dually yet as i said ive just bought it the other week. When he bolts of he runs into his stable not back to all the other horses who are in the field.

With regards to ground manners he is absolutely fine very respectful, doesn't come in your personal space, does back away from stable door to let you in etc.

I dont know if hes had a bad experience loading in the past but wouldn't say his ground manners are to blame as the only time he isnt being respectful is when to comes to loading

 

[Birker2020]

I have just bought a dually for him the other week and unfortunately dont have a box of my own to practice with him. think .

You don't need a lorry/trailer to practice loading. I know that sounds stupid but you need to set up a small enclosed area (use jump poles and wings to set up a make shift lorry set up) and practice with the dually on the ground. Ask him to walk in to the 'enclosed area' and stand. Praise him if he is stands. Then turn him (as if to unload) and make him stand still. If he barges off you need to apply pressure accordingly but remember to let go immediatley he stands still.

I am really lucky because with all the problems I had loading my horse, not once has he ever worked out that when he follows me in the trailer he is able to back out if he chooses as I always load on my own. He is so good now that once he has walked in I will walk between him and the partition and down the rear ramp and shut it (standing to the side just in case he discovers he can reverse out). He's never reversed out in 12 years thank goodness. I went down the Monty Roberts route and he was used as a demo horse for problem loaders in front of a crowd of over 800 people at Solihull Riding Club approx 3 years ago now. I use the dually to load although the last dozen times I have not needed it and just load and unload in a normal headcollar.

I never did get to the route of why he stopped loading, although I suspect it was a fright with a pig at a show centre.

 

[Abbeyandersonflynn]

Oh that sounds like a good idea! thanks i will defiantly try that. Im not going back out in the horse box until the 10th of April so that give me some more time to practice.

Love Monty Roberts think he is amazing with what he does with horses and the issues they have. Would love to take flynn to a demo if hes doesnt stop trying to run off and Monty Roberts came up to Scotland.

 

[LHIS]

You've just missed his current UK tour, though looking at the venues the furthest north he came was Cheshire.
I'd go down the dually route - though make sure you watch the DVD that should have come with it first.
You could also look into getting an IH trainer out (see the website) to help you if you need it (only you can judge this).

 

[Tnavas]

Are you able to practise loading with the ramp on a raised loading bay. Means ramp and floor of truck are level. I had a horse once that did the same as yours, I think he just got confused with the pressures on the head collar as to whether he was expected to go back or turn. Once going back got a fright because the ramp was there.

We solved the problem by having the ramp on a raised area, only took a few goes at practising. We then put up the doors at the back and left him untied to explore. Along with some additional ground training - this is one of those times when 'Turn on the Forehand' is a very useful lesson to teach.

 

[JennBags]

A friend of mine has exactly the same problem - the horse loads OK but as soon as he's on, whips round and bolts off. He's fine in another friend's Equitrek trailer, but bolts off my lorry and won't even go into an Ifor.

Like yours, his ground manners are actually very good. She's been getting him over it by firstly using a rope halter and teaching him pressure and release - he picked this up quickly. Then it's just a case of repeating it - making the lorry a nice place to stand - so when he gets on, he gets a bucket of nuts, and a nice calm atmosphere, and when he's off, he's kept moving around. Then it's just a case of repeat repeat repeat.

Good luck, it's so frustrating having loading problems.

 

[Birker2020]

Love Monty Roberts think he is amazing with what he does with horses and the issues they have. Would love to take flynn to a demo if hes doesnt stop trying to run off and Monty Roberts came up to Scotland.

I went onto his website and there is a form you can fill in to request your horse be used as a demo horse. If they think your horse warrants the help, or they are short of a horse for a certain demo then they will ask you to attend. Of course when I went with my best mate my worry is that he wouldn't load! But he did, although it took us about 20 mins that time! I was ready to hack up if that had been necessary as I was desperate for an answer.

What Kelly Marks found with my horse was that he was a little reluctant to go into an enclosed space and didn't like feeling restricted. She led him into a fenced area (similar to what I have suggested you do with your horse) and he really wasn't keen. In the end they had him loading on and off a lorry, and the same with me loading him, but of course a lorry is a long way off a trailer. They reckoned the trailer was too small for the horse, but unless at the age of 16 he had suddenly started growing a few inches I knew this wasn't the reason as he had loaded great for over seven years previous to all the problems I had had with him. In the end I put a radio in the trailer for travelling, and gave him more ventilation and this did the trick and he has never looked back. In the past eight or nine months the longest he has taken is about 90 seconds, and the quickest is following me in immediately. Thrilled to bits.

 

[Bernster]

I'm trying to make it a good experience for mine as he was a tiny bit hesitant to load a couple of times. I tie up a bucket along with the hay net, with a few grass nits and carrots, so when I load I get him to start tucking in then I close the partition and ramp. If yours is a foodie, might that work?

Agree applecart re the loading practice and dually, that works well.

 

[atropa]

Hmm..I would make doubly sure he's not just testing you and behaving badly. Mine is another who has lovely ground manners, but she absolutely will test me if she can whilst loading. The first time I tried myself to get her into a 3.5T box, she refused to walk up the ramp for about an hour. A more experienced person came along and she walked straight up. Turns out she was just enjoying all the fuss I was making over her putting even one foot on the ramp.
Once we got her on, she would barge back out if I let her, I had to be firm with her and she soon settled. I would just practice loading and unloading if you can, make him stand at the top of the ramp whilst you're unloading until you are ready for him to move his feet. Try not to show any tension or stress as this makes things worse.

 

[wench]

Barging out is a very awful thing to deal with.

As someone has said, every time they get away, they are getting a reward. However, dependant on the horse, making sure they don't "get away" whilst in the trailer can be increadibly dangerous.

You could tie horse up solid so he can't pull away and get out. Chances are if he knows he can pull back to get out, he will pull back tied solid, and at best wreck the headcollar, at worst injured horse and a wrecked trailer.

If you genuinely think he's being naughty, rather than scared, you could get someone to fasten him in as soon as he's on, so he learns that he can't "get out" of the situation he doesn't like. Trouble is with this is, if he is actually scared, you could end up with even worse problems that above suggestion.

 

[Abbeyandersonflynn]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions! I thought about someone being in the horsebox as I enter to quickly fasten him in but also thought about what you said how he could hurt him self or damage the box or a person.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m9m3gB9eYxY

This is a link to a video of Flynn loading coming back from the beach and him loading first time. Going however took 3 attempts so I don't know if he's just being cheeky.

Please comment and let me know after watching the video how I could improve loading him as I know am not great at it. Thanks

 

[atropa]

OP that's the same box I hire! You must be fairly local to me, is your horse up for sale on the local FB groups by any chance?
No comments on your loading technique as I'm by no means an expert and that looked to go okay to me, will leave that for more experienced posters.

 

[Abbeyandersonflynn]

Oh what a small world! Lovely horse box really easy to drive. Yes he was but my dads decided he wants to ride and go hacking so is going to take him. Which is great didn't really want to part with him.

 

[chloecathcart]

Ground manners and a good pressure halter/bridle/dually.

Does he get away from you when he bolts? What does he do when he actually bolts? Does he go to his mates? Back to his field? His stable? Eats at a grass verge?

I my eyes you have change this reaction in his head. There is obviously a desirable outcome for him when he bolts out, i.e you let go and he grabs a few handfuls of grass, he gets away from you and gets to fly around having a jolly etc.

Once you have figured that out, you then need to make bolting a "bad" experience for him. I.e, he tries to bolt but doesn't get let go of or the pressure halter kicks in and makes it uncomfortable for him, he doesn't get that desirable outcome.

Groundwork is key here. Is he bolshy on the ground? Bargey in his stable etc?

This is the trouble when people won't enforce proper ground manners all of the time. Things like, moving back when the stable door opens not having to push past them, making them wait for feed instead of sticking their head in the bucket before you put the feed down, letting them drag you to grass etc. It is all about the horse respecting your space otherwise these behaviours can escalate and with half a tonne of animal equipped with feet and teeth, those poor manners are not an option for me. Once the headcollar is on their head, they should behave. End of.

Late to this but I'm struggling with my mare bolting off with me when I try loading her in the trailer but she is the total opposite of what you describe on the ground and when it comes to ground work. Complete sweetheart with manners, can touch her anywhere, move her off and away very well but once you ask her to do something she's unsure of or doesn't want to do she goes backwards. Struggling with this as last time I tried loading she bolted off on me, back to her mates. What can I do if she doesn't show any disrespectful signs on the ground other than these moments?

 

[eggs]

Late to this but I'm struggling with my mare bolting off with me when I try loading her in the trailer but she is the total opposite of what you describe on the ground and when it comes to ground work. Complete sweetheart with manners, can touch her anywhere, move her off and away very well but once you ask her to do something she's unsure of or doesn't want to do she goes backwards. Struggling with this as last time I tried loading she bolted off on me, back to her mates. What can I do if she doesn't show any disrespectful signs on the ground other than these moments?

I had a tank of a WB who would load perfectly onto a 7.5 ton lorry but then just turn around and bog off down the ramp before I could tie him up. His ground manners were pretty good and well established.

For him I practiced loading him with a bridle to give me more control, make him stand to have a tiny feed whilst he was tied up (I had bungees in the lorry so I just needed to click one to his headcollar which was on over his bridle) and the partition closed. It only took a couple of times doing this and it broke the habit of him tanking back down he ramp.

 

[WestCoast]

Late to this but I'm struggling with my mare bolting off with me when I try loading her in the trailer but she is the total opposite of what you describe on the ground and when it comes to ground work. Complete sweetheart with manners, can touch her anywhere, move her off and away very well but once you ask her to do something she's unsure of or doesn't want to do she goes backwards. Struggling with this as last time I tried loading she bolted off on me, back to her mates. What can I do if she doesn't show any disrespectful signs on the ground other than these moments?

This is a behaviour I’d get professional help with. An experienced professional can often pick up very quickly warming signs of when a horse is going to go backwards/spin and stop the behaviour before it starts. Often by the time they are spinning/going backwards it’s a bit late to stop.

 

[canteron]

Someone lovely on here gave me this advice.
Load with a pressure halter and a long rope - preferably one that is heavier than a lunge rope.
Dont fight to stop the horse getting off (this is where having a long ‘lunge’ line works) but immediately make the horse do small circles, backing up, coming forward etc, consistent but calm, and the only time the horse gets to stand still is on the lorry.

It took several weeks, practicing 5 times a week, but this worked for us and at least we have a method now!

 

[BigRedDog]

Someone lovely on here gave me this advice.
Load with a pressure halter and a long rope - preferably one that is heavier than a lunge rope.
Dont fight to stop the horse getting off (this is where having a long ‘lunge’ line works) but immediately make the horse do small circles, backing up, coming forward etc, consistent but calm, and the only time the horse gets to stand still is on the lorry.

It took several weeks, practicing 5 times a week, but this worked for us and at least we have a method now!

This. I have the same problem, pony goes on then whips round and tanks off. I don’t use a pressure halter but use a pretty long rope. Load and then if doesn’t settle he is allowed to come off slowly and calmly. Eventually he now goes right to the far side of lorry starts eating hay and I can clip him on.

To start with me it could take 10 loads/coming off before calm enough to clip on and shut partition. This weekend we had 2 loads/coming off - third one calm, clipped on and off we went.

 

[Love]

This may not be helpful at all but thought I would mention just in case.

Mine experience of this is with a trailer not a lorry but my gelding worked out that he could back out of the trailer before we were able to get the back bar on (not fast, but he is determined to back off). If I try and hold on to him inside to stop him backing out it makes him 10x worse -hes 17 and absolutely knows what pressure and release is but trying to force him to stay on makes him panic.

I now load him with a lunge line. If he backs off, I don't try and stop him but I make sure that I never leave the trailer (so he doesn't learn he can pull me out of it - hence using a lunge line as its long enough for this) and as soon as he stops we load straight back onto the trailer, no hesitation. Sometimes he gets the message straight away, others a few attempts but he soon realises that he always ends up back on the trailer with his tasty haynet. Once the back bar is on he will stand on the trailer all day, travels like a dream and unloads calmly and politely.

Its just one of his quirks that we are working with.

 

[maya2008]

We did this with a pony who had a fear of the lorry. Exact behaviour you describe. I set aside lots of time, and we fixed it in a couple of days. Left it wide open so no fear of being trapped and had a long line with bridle on. Led pony on, treat, off. So I was removing her from the scary thing before she had a chance to react - smooth on...treat...off. Gradually we stopped for a couple of seconds longer, distracting her with treats...then a little longer...little longer. It had to be a high value reward (carrots for her) as a bucket of feed did nothing. As she became calmer, and stopped rushing off, I'd walk on, stop and count for a second or two, then treat. Repeat counting a second longer...and longer...until she would walk on, stand calmly (treat only for calm standing at this point) then walk off. We stopped there for day 1. On the second day we introduced the partition, again going very very slowly. You don't want them to panic at any stage, so have to watch their body language very very closely. Slight emotional discomfort is what you're going for - so you make progress but can overcome with the treat. That pony is now in a new home and loading fine, but they have taken the partition out for her as she prefers not to be confined.

 

[Kaylum]

Yes thats how we do it. Give your horse a lick before you walk on. Walk your horse on have someone stood with a lick ready to distract. Once stood nicely with lick tie up. Untie walk off. Give lick. Do this until horse is happy. They soon learn.

 

[Annagain]

My old boy used to do this. He was fine if I had help but if I was on my own, the second I left his head, he'd shoot off backwards and leg it back to the field - only ever leaving the yard, he'd load himself to come home. You could almost fell his delight as he laughed at me. Loading him with a lunge line helped for two reasons - one was i could softly jiggle the line as I went to the back (inside the trailer) while talking to him and he took some comfort in feeling my presence. The second was that if he legged it, I could let go of the end I had and grab it closer to him as it got pulled past me so I still had hold of him. Once he realised he wasn't able to get away, he started doing it less and less. He's retired now but he travels to the vet now and again and never does it any more.

An over the door bucket with a handful of feed in it over the breast bar also helps keep him occupied while I go to the back.

 

[Carlosmum]

I had one who would rush off the trailer front ramp, when unloading. Horse and I agreed he would come off backwards. Probably not very helpful in your situation!

 

[sollimum]

Yes thats how we do it. Give your horse a lick before you walk on. Walk your horse on have someone stood with a lick ready to distract. Once stood nicely with lick tie up. Untie walk off. Give lick. Do this until horse is happy. They soon learn.

This is what I did and then left the lick in the trailer. So lick is only given as a reward in the trailer and that's where it lives and it now doesn't appear out of the trailer and we keep practising going into the trailer and then sadly leaving the lick and trailer.