Horse lowering head BEFORE a fence..

[Jessinaround]

So, when jumping particularly SJ from any canter horse will dip/lower his head BEFORE the fence, occasionally even touching the rail he dips it that low before take off.
I don't jump mega 90 is probably our limit when training. The main problem I'm finding is that when he dips his head that low it pulls my body forward with the contact and I'm up and over his neck and if he goes in deep which is his forte this is awful as I'm already ahead of the movement, so you can imagine how awkward it is for the both of us! He will lower/dip his head regardless if he goes in deep or takes a long one. I see so many horses with such a steady head whilst jumping and I can't figure out what, if anything we can do about this.
He's a former racehorse who had a decent career over fences, I can imagine that will play a factor in this however surely not all to blame? He's a genuine kind horse and has never said no at a fence.
He's not the type of horse that will take you into a fence, so dropping the contact isn't really an option? Or is it ? His canter isn't perfect, he can revert to being long/flat at times but really hes the same with the head dipping thing from any canter.
I'm all ears, I'd be keen to know if anyone has had similar and or what we can possibly do about it ? It's certainly something I haven't seen before.
TIA

 

[AmyMay]

This is a rider and schooling issue.

Do you have a trainer?

 

[ihatework]

Do you have video to demonstrate what you mean?
I’m not sure I’d be willing to comment before seeing it as the written word here could be completely misinterpreted

 

[Jessinaround]

This is a rider and schooling issue.

Do you have a trainer?

Yes, I have at least 3 lessons a month with various trainers and sadly it’s not been picked up, when I’ve mentioned it I generally get the response that they prefer the horse to have a look? I’m very keen to try and work this out and work on myself if that is the main issue?! I haven’t seen anyone else jump him other than a few years back when a friend mentioned they had nothing infront of them over a fence!
Id really appreciate if you could tell me why you feel it’s a rider/schooling issue in a little more detail please.

 

[shortstuff99]

Horses do drop their heads to be able to see/ judge the fence properly so it might be linked to vision or something similar.

 

[ycbm]

Yes, I have at least 3 lessons a month with various trainers and sadly it’s not been picked up, when I’ve mentioned it I generally get the response that they prefer the horse to have a look? I’m very keen to try and work this out and work on myself if that is the main issue?! I haven’t seen anyone else jump him other than a few years back when a friend mentioned they had nothing infront of them over a fence!
Id really appreciate if you could tell me why you feel it’s a rider/schooling issue in a little more detail please.

The first point about it being a schooling issue is that you are jumping and your hands need to be ready to release his neck as he goes over the fence. If he is pulling you out of the saddle when he drops his head then it doesn't sound as if you are able to release him to jump the fence. It's pretty normal for horses to drop their heads immediately in front of the fence, it's a sight thing, they do it to judge the distance to the fence and height of it..

Welcome to the forum from the ranks of the lurkers into the posters.
.

 

[Jessinaround]

Do you have video to demonstrate what you mean?
I’m not sure I’d be willing to comment before seeing it as the written word here could be completely misinterpreted

I’ve just been trying for 20 minutes, sorry unable to post a video, It would really help!

The first point about it being a schooling issue is that you are jumping and your hands need to be ready to release his neck as he goes over the fence. If he is pulling you out of the saddle when he drops his head then it doesn't sound as if you are able to release him to jump the fence. It's pretty normal for horses to drop their heads immediately in front of the fence, it's a sight thing, they do it to judge the distance to the fence and height of it..

Welcome to the forum from the ranks of the lurkers into the posters.
.

Thanks ever so much! Yes, you are spot on, I do grip on the reins, I’m struggling to find a happy medium. I’m continually trying to be softer, however I find I revert back to gripping without realising, annoyingly! Any pointers?
I’m very critical of my riding and I’m so keen to improve, he’s a such a willing chap who looks after me very well it’s the least I can do.

 

[Maddie Moo]

I’ve just been trying for 20 minutes, sorry unable to post a video, It would really help!

Can you upload it to YouTube (as private) and then post the link on here?

 

[ester]

Yes direct uploads of pics or vids on here are not good, better to use a 3rd party option and a link

 

[Jessinaround]

https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0e7mwfavECs6edK7hWAQ9C1Ag

 

[humblepie]

No helpful comments but lovely horse.

 

[AmyMay]

Looks fabulous And not at all what I was expecting.

 

[Jessinaround]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/08a04nh7tXFvV0SKE-Xg5O8ZA

I can’t seem to get the video to work however here is a screenshot of what he does, like I say he is very willing boy and will pop over everything even after doing this but I really struggle to ride it and I don’t want to p him off anymore!!

 

[SEL]

That's quite an odd bob down of the head - not what I was expecting from your post either!

Have you ever had eyesight checks?

 

[ester]

Video worked for me. I think it’s quite cute but will leave it to others for suggestions

 

[SEL]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/08a04nh7tXFvV0SKE-Xg5O8ZA

I can’t seem to get the video to work however here is a screenshot of what he does, like I say he is very willing boy and will pop over everything even after doing this but I really struggle to ride it and I don’t want to p him off anymore!!

Video worked for me just took a while to load up.

Does he do that on grids too?

 

[Jessinaround]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/08a04nh7tXFvV0SKE-Xg5O8ZA

I can’t seem to get the video to work however here is a screenshot of what he does, like I say he is very willing boy and will pop over everything even after doing this but I really struggle to ride it and I don’t want to p him off anymore!!

Sorry, my mistake, I meant the screenshot I’ve just taken and uploaded, I can’t seem to upload that particular video.

 

[scats]

Does he do it in the daylight aswell?
It might just be a quirk of his. I’ve known some cracking jumpers have slightly unusual techniques but it works for them.

 

[RachelFerd]

Video doesn't look very unusual at all - suspect you are riding with too short a rein, causing him to pull you forwards. He makes a nice shape and looks careful - far preferable to something that hollows and jumps upside-down.

 

[teapot]

Out of interest does he do it if you loose jump him?

 

[dottylottie]

i don’t think it looks particularly unusual, he certainly looks keen and willing! lovely boy you’ve got. obviously it’s difficult to say from just a short video, but could it be that you’re keeping hold of him to keep him in line, and he’s saying “okay im here now, get off!”? obviously ruling out any issues with his vision, as that was my first thought from your description, i’d stick a neck strap on, give him a bit more rein and see if he’s less inclined to do it.

from the video it certainly doesn’t look like there’s anything going on making him reluctant to the fence, which makes me think it is a schooling/training issue

 

[Jessinaround]

Thanks all for your input, it’s much appreciated!
Yes I completely agree regarding the gripping of the rein/ length of rein, it’s something I’m so aware of. I am chipping away at it however sadly I revert back to gripping which is highly frustrating for me and my poor boy.
I’m relatively new to jumping, I’m trying to figure it all out and want to, I haven’t quite found auto pilot and I clearly cannot multitask my boy is worth his weight in gold putting up with me, I know that much! I’m very lucky to have him.
We haven’t had his eyes checked, they get the once over at his yearly MOT, with no concerns.
Down a grid I want to say he doesn’t do it as severely. I haven’t loose schooled him over a jump, so that’s certainly worth trying too.
I think the worst I can show is the screenshot below

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share.icloud.com

 

[LEC]

Is he an experienced horse who is used to jumping bigger by any chance? If he is I suspect it’s just his way of measuring the fence

 

[marmalade76]

https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0e7mwfavECs6edK7hWAQ9C1Ag

I think that's a lovely jump

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Hm. If I had to pick on a few things it would be the release. You do need to give him more of a release, IMO. Also, try to stay over your leg a bit more on the backside, and not come back down onto the saddle/back of the saddle so soon.

Honestly though, you have a lovely horse and you both look alright! Just some tweaks and you'll be golden. Such is riding!


As for his technique, I have seen the odd horse that does this, I'm not sure why that is, I've always just assumed they're "measuring and loading data"

 

[ycbm]

Is he an experienced horse who is used to jumping bigger by any chance? If he is I suspect it’s just his way of measuring the fence

This. I've seen photos and videos of GP horses doing i in front of very big fences. My cleverest ever jumping horse used to do it too, it was really unnerving when his head dipped in front of fences.
.

 

[Alibear]

Far better than I could ever do. I just wondered if a neck strap would help so you could hold that more than the reins.

 

[marmalade76]

This. I've seen photos and videos of GP horses doing i in front of very big fences. My cleverest ever jumping horse used to do it too, it was really unnerving when his head dipped in front of fences.
.

My little horse's whole body used to drop down when we jumped bigger hedges, it made what we were jumping look even bigger.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

My little horse's whole body used to drop down when we jumped bigger hedges, it made what we were jumping look even bigger.

Coiling the springs before take off?