Horse on forehand....extremely so....help please

[jenbleep]

Hello everyone

I know I don't post much anymore but I was hoping someone can reply!

I am riding a 15.2 full tb 6 year old mare for someone in my block of flats (I had no idea she even had horses - I've lived there for 6 years!

) Anyway I have ridden her about 6 or 7 times, lots of hacking and we have been in the school twice.

She is very on the forehand, so much so that her owner has said that she has been pulled out of the saddle a few times

I didn't notice it as much out hacking, but now I have been in the school I can feel it more now - I have never ridden a horse so downhill!!

She is ridden in a hanging cheek single joined snaffle.......now I have asked her owner why she uses this bit and she said because she felt she was strong, and her old instructor said it would help keep her in an outline and she would have more control. My friend and I think that the bit is encouraging her more to drive onto her forehand....and I suggested a french link loose ring snaffle, and I'd be happy to work her in that in the school, however her owner was a bit

about taking her for a hack in that in case she gets strong. Any other bit/noseband suggestions??? I don't mind riding her in something simple and just schooling her to get her off her forehand but I want her owner to be happy as well.

Also, when I have been in the school I have been working on circles of different sizes on each rein, with transitions and direct transitions to encourage her to use her hocks and relax her back. It is going to take a while, as her mouth is hard

But what else could I do?

I only use the school about once or twice a week as it costs £5 so anything I could do on hacks?? Leg yield etc? There is a flat bit in her field as well so I might lunge her once a week as well.

Any comments and suggestions please

Thank you - sorry it's long

xxx

 

[teapot]

Lots of uphill work if you can so ideal out hacking. Walking up them will require more effort on her part rather than trotting and it'll get her fit too. When you're schooling her, you've got to think of riding her uphill, rather then going "ahhhhh man just get off my hands". I used to ribe a cob that was like riding whilst holding a tank in your hands. Lots and lots of forward uphill work trying to get him to engage behind worked wonders in the end.

Schooling on a circle sprialling in and then leg yielding out is a good one as she'll have to start to think about using her hind legs. Asking for canter whilst doing this as soon as you hit the track is another good one.

A loose ring or even something with rollers would certainly mean that she'd have less to lean on and actually have to think a bit. There's also the thought (I used to do this occasionally) of riding with a very loose rein so the horse can't lean against you. Some soon realise that they're not gaining anything (depends on whether she's a quick learner or not

)

Sounds like you're going to have to get the owner on side too otherwise you'll be putting all the hard work in when you ride her, but then she can revert back to being on her forehand when her owner rides her.

 

[sallyg84]

Lateral work could be good as she will have to lift her front at least a little bit to move sideways, but be careful and only attempt in walk. She will probably find it very hard and stressful and will want to rush, try the age old few strides lateral, few strides straight and concentrate on keeping a nice calm rythm.
Also I find with horses very on their forehand, when working try a few rein backs, again try to keep them as calm as possible without letting her get to mouthy.
Also poss some halt transitions, making a real effort to push and create the energy with legs then allowing the hands to let her move forward again, this will hopefully teach her to step from behind and propel herself forwards thus lifting her front end up more.
Hope that is some help! But it will take a lot of time and patience to break her way of going!

 

[jenbleep]

thank you for the reply

Luckily on one of the routes I take out hacking there are two great big hills - where I used to ride was completly flat

so seeing as I'll be hacking 90% of the time thats handy

You hit the nail on the head in regards to what she feels like - I feel like I am carrying two massive weights in my hands!!

Towards the end of the schooling sesh I could feel a glimmer of hope but then she would revert back to leaning. I am going to have to be super quick to reward when she softens methinks

Her owner is lovely - I don't want to stick my oar in too much but my friend rides for her best friend (does that make sense?) so I'm not alone

and I'm sure it will work out. She only rides about once or twice a week anyway at the mo xx

 

[jenbleep]

she is quite behind the leg so our halt transitions were a bit abrupt

but again towards the end she was stepping under when I asked her to halt. Then I asked her to trot sharpish and she jumped into it

but three strides later she was leaning again. I guess it is just going to take time, it took me about 3 months to get Frankie soft and bendy

What do we think about a copper roller snaffle?? To be honest I think I might just try a french link for now but I would like to know peoples opinions

xx

 

[tillyd]

I sympathise! My mare used to be like this - it takes time.
Echo all the above. Give and retake of reins so she can't hang on you.
I think a copper roller would be too strong - i'd go for the french link or a plain loose ring snaffle. If you put a strong bit in you run the risk that she'll just drop behind the bit if she's not truly going forward already, and go over bent, which means your legs will probably drop off the amount you'd have to use them to get her working properly!
Keep it as simple as you can. good luck! - get someone to take a vid so you can see the difference, as it will take a while and can be disheartening (but rewarding when you get it right!)

 

[sallyg84]

Totally agree on the bit, you want something as simple and as kind as possible, with the time in the softer bit she will become more accepting through her mouth. Always try to solve a problem through riding and training not bitting!
Giving and taking if rein good idea. Quite simple solutions that just require a lot of hard work. Active forward going work with as quiet hands as possible will encourage her to think more positively and relax and soften her mouth.

 

[myhorsefred]

I always think that the bit is as kind as the hands controlling it. So if you are soft in your hands, which by the sound of it you are, I would try a waterford. Worked for my hunter type who was constantly leaning when I first had him. And lots of give and retake of reins too, as someone else has mentioned. Also, lots of half halts to get his hocks underneath him and to get him listening.

Good luck. You will get there in the end!

 

[jenbleep]

thanks for all your replies everyone! I am not normally the sort of person that bypasses schooling for gadgetry, I don't mind going back to basics at all and I know that that is where all the answers lie! Good idea about videoing, I tend to get down hearted sometimes so it would be good to see us improve. As I said I did feel a slight softness towards the end, but it is going to take ages!!

I'm going to change the bit to a french link loose ring for our schooling sesh on Wednesday......I will no doubt keep you informed! xx

 

[sallyg84]

Good luck with it!

 

[Natch]

Will she soften to your hands? Frankie already knew how to give to the hand which was helpful, so I just rode leg to hand a LOT and made very clear hand movements that my instructor taught me...

... the best way I can describe that is to take a strong hold on one rein, give, pause a mini second, do the same with the opposite rein, and continue alternating until she gives. Stop immediately when she does give as a reward, and at the same moment really ride forwards with your legs and soft hands. If she falls back onto your hands, repeat. Obviously keep the length of the schooling sessions short enough because she will find supporting herself quite hard to begin with. But having said that once my instructor had me doing this with F she said do it on hacks and all the time so that he doesn't ever think its ok to lean - and 2 weeks later he had got it - no more leaning!!

Hope the same works for you, I know how tiring it is riding a leaning horse!

The other thing another instructor taught me with a different leany horse was to do walk pirrouettes and sharp transitions - as in when I ride halt, I mean halt NOW! etc. You know the way she leaps into trot? That's because she has to make a big effort to lift her front end to make the transition - but you can use that to your advantage as for the next few strides she will be lighter on the forehand!