Horse out on loan... but needs new saddle, who pays?

Aragon56

Aragon56

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My horse is out on full loan and the arrangement seems to be working out pretty well so far, only 3 months in but she seems settled there and the loaner gets on well with her. The loaner pays full costs except we split the insurance 50/50 every month as we have an arrangement that I can still visit and ride her every so often.

My dilemma is that the loaner has just started having lessons and her instructor thinks that the saddle is too small for her and tipping her forwards. Her knees go slightly over the knee rolls too; I'm quite small so the saddle has always been fine for me but I can see what she means.

The saddle has always been a bit contentious as although it was fitted professionally by Bridlepath International just over 3 years ago it wasn't long before it started slipping slightly to one side. It's been reflocked twice since then and I had another recommended saddle fitter look at it last year, who said that the tree was broken. I've no idea how or why this happened as to the best of my knowledge it's never been dropped etc. He reflocked it for me and did his best to patch it up and said it was ok to carry on using, as overall it fits my horse well (she has a really flat back so was tricky to fit in the first place).

The loaner wants to get a new saddle which will fit her better, which I wouldn't have a problem with as clearly my current saddle isn't perfect, except I wanted to trade it in to help pay for it. Her saddle fitter has said that she is worried about her riding with the current saddle in case it damages Meg's back, and also that she can only buy the saddle off us if the tree is sound as legally she is not allowed to otherwise.

I've been in contact with the saddle makers Ideal about getting the tree fixed, but who should pay for repairs and any new saddle that we end up getting - me or the loaner?

Originally I said I was happy for the loaner to get the saddle fitter out and just get a new one which I would buy as I'll only have the same issue whenever I have the horse back, but really a new saddle with a larger seat is of no benefit to me because the old saddle fits me fine, and I'm only going to be riding once every 6/8 weeks or so. It's just the old saddle happens to have a broken tree and I can't PX it for a new one as it currently is.

Struggling to think of the best solution without annoying my loaner but I also can't afford to spend £500 or so on a new saddle just so it fits her better. The loan contract we have is a standard BHS one and I'm fairly sure I added a clause about any financial issues with the saddle being split fairly. The loaner was aware that the tree was broken before taking on the loan too. Any suggestions, or has anyone been in this position before? Thanks :)
 
Well tbh if I had a horse on loan and wanted a different saddle I would, after checking with the owner that it's ok, buy a saddle for it myself. Likewise, if someone had my horse on loan and they asked me if it was ok, I would be OK with them buying (and having fitted) another saddle that suited them better than mine. I wouldnt expect the horses owner to buy something to suit me, nor would I want to replace a perfectly good saddle with something no good for me, for someone else.
HOWEVER, your saddle is not a perfectly good saddle, I'm having a hard time getting my head around the fact that the saddle is still being used with a broken tree, it needs fixing or binning, not using if it's broken.
 
-I+ think if it had been that she only wanted the saddle to fit herself better then she should buy a new one herself. However it doesn't sound like the saddle fits the horse anyway and I personally wouldn't be using it with a broken tree... Why not sell the saddle on Ebay or something if the current fitter doesn't want it, then buy a second hand one (having had it fitted obviously)? I would have said overall that borrower should buy a new one (and then she keeps it after lease ends) but since you ride the horse as well still, think you should probably contribute / buy it outright.
 
From a slightly different perspective I loaned a horse for a year than came without a saddle.

I knew it wasn't going to be a long term loan so I got a saddle fitter out and bought a second hand saddle that I knew i could sell on at more or less the same price at the end of the loan. It was my saddle and I was very clear with the saddler no new saddles and a brand that held value well.


If the horse had come with a usable saddle and the loaner wanted a different size, style etc, then I would say it was for them to pay as it's their choice but then they keep the saddle after.

However as your saddle is broken then it's currently not suitable which complicates matters. If it can be fixed I would pay and the the loaner is in the same situation as before.

If not and your horse needs a new saddle then I might try and be there for the fitting and see if there is one that suited you both then I would say it makes sense for you to pay. But only if it is something you would be happy to use at the end of the loan.

I don't like the idea of 50/50 as then it gets complicated about whose it is at the end. One or the other should pay and then own the saddle.

I would share the fitting costs though.
 
I currently have a horse on loan who came with a jump saddle only... For my own benefit i went out and purchased a dressage saddle as i hate schooling in a jump saddle! I didnt expect the owner to pay for it as she provided me with a perfectly good saddle... The added benefit for me is that it will fit my own horse when he returns to work this autumn, if for whatever reason it doesnt i shall simply sell it on. But i agree with the others... Why on earth are you happy to ride and let your horse be ridden in a saddle with a broken tree... It makes no difference if it fits the horse perfectly its broken therefore it will not equally distribute the riders weight... I would bin it and cough up for a new saddle for the horse afterall i would prefer my horse to be in something comfortable :)
 
Blunt answer is that I personally would never use a saddle with a broken tree. So your horse needs a new non-broken saddle pronto. That said, I see your dilemma about the larger rider needing a bigger seat and that may not be suitable for you, so why don't you suggest 50/50. There is a solution of getting a seatsaver as they can certainly make a saddle seat smaller. Flat backs tend to suit thorowgoods rather well so you may be able to pick one up cheaply secondhand.
 
If the saddle really has a broken tree - why the hell is it being used at all. definately not god for the horse. Either get the saddle fixed and then part-ex, or get rid of it al together. Check your insurance to see if the tree is covered, you may be able to claim.

Either way the saddle needs sorting
 
Agree with the others. if it was just for rider's benefit she should buy it, but it sounds like it will benefit your horse and you too so I'd say you should. You'll only have to buy one when you get the horse back otherwise. Surely it's better to shell out now when you don't have the added costs of keeping your horse too?

When I had to buy a new saddle I got a credit card with 12 months interest free on purchases, bought the saddle and cut it up (the card that is, not the saddle!). I then divided the cost into 12 equal payments and set up a direct debit for that amount. Once it was paid off I closed the account. One year 0% finance on a new saddle was a massive help. You can't do it too often though or your credit rating suffers as you're too good a customer in a way, you don't provide them with any income!
 
I wouldn't want someone using a saddle with a broken tree on my horse! Getting the tree repaired will cost a fair bit so unless it's a very good make I would just bin it or offer it cheap to a saddler. Personally I would suggest that either you buy a new saddle that will fit you and the loaner will just have to make do or she buys one to fit her. I wouldn't want to go halves as it could cause problems later on should she not want to loan your horse anymore.
 
I loan with no contract and I would buy everything I need. Wouldn't even ask their help, save for their opinion etc

If you would want to keep said new saddle when if/when the loan finishes, then you could buy it. Otherwise you might be in the situation where you have no saddle anyway!

I wouldn't go halves though, you might not get your money back if the loaner keeps it! X
 
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I personally would never knowingly ride in a saddle with a broken tree because of the potential damage to horse and rider, neither would I allow someone to ride one of mine in such a saddle so to that respect the saddle is of no use and should be binned. That gives two options, either you buy a saddle and keep it if and when the loan ends or they buy it and keep it. I don't think going halves is a good idea as it can get messy with who owns what etc.
 
If loaner wants a saddle that fits her for the horse she pays for it. The saddle then remains her property along with any other tack she buys for the horse.

This was the Case with Stella I bought her saddle bridles rugs etc and they belonged to me not her owner.
 
I have a pony on loan and have bought her a new saddle as I wanted to show her and she came with a synthetic...I bought her a leather saddle which even after a few fittings didn't fit (she is an Exmoor and very tricky!) and have since bought a number of saddle pads to use on her - all of which I have paid for. Her owner does visit and rides her in whatever I am currently using!
 
I think it best for one of you to buy the saddle - if you both pay part towards it then what happens at the end of the loan?

I would suggest that the loaner buys the saddle and retains / sells on / you can buy it if you like it at the end of the loan.

The old saddle needs chucking by the sounds of things
 
I'm slightly shocked you have been told you have a saddle with a broken tree yet continue to use it!

My suggestion would be that you advise your loaners to purchase their own saddle for the horse, be that new/second hand/synthetic. They will own the saddle and then if/when the loan finishes they can either use it for their next horse or sell it on.

You then have your saddle returned to you. You then decide whether to have repaired at your cost and keep it for when the horse comes back, sell it or whatever.
 
If I loaned a horse that the owner still expected to ride then I would expect the owner to provide the tack. A broken saddle that's too small won't do.
 
I disagree with whoever suggested you put the broken saddle on Ebay. It's obviously not a good thing to do, and the buyer may well demand a refund anyway. If you are going to sell it, get it fixed first - or better, just bin it.

Deciding on what saddle to get for the loaner is tricky though. If you are going to buy a saddle you should get one that is of use to you when you take the horse back - either because you find it comfortable and would use it, or at least can sell on without losing much money. I don't think you should be persuaded to buy something that is perfect for the loaner if it doesn't meet the criteria above. And going 50/50 will be hard as at some point you have to sort out ownership - either one of you buys the other out, or sell and split the difference.

Personally I bought my old horse (who is on loan) a good Ideal GP to take with him - it is a 17.5 which should fit most people. It cost £300 on Ebay plus £30 flocking, and I thought that was a small price for knowing that he has a good quality and safe saddle. I expect if it comes back, I could sell it on for about the same amount again. If his loaner suddenly decided she must have a special jump or dressage saddle she is welcome to buy one herself. But for an all-rounder type loan horse, a decent GP is perfectly suitable to send with them. If I were you, I would offer something like this - and limit the amount you are prepared to pay - it shouldn't cost more than £500 for a decent second hand saddle.
 
Agree with everything above. Bin the old saddle, it it an vet bill (or worse) waiting to happen.

I have a loan mare who came with the worst saddle you have ever seen! I was happy to buy a new saddle, but didn't want to pay a lot as I was told the one she came with fitted. Anyway, the owners paid for it in the end as they felt bad the saddle they sent was wrong (novices who trusted and bought the saddle off a "friend") so in your case I would say you need to pay for the saddle as the one sent with the horse isn't suitable, but again you dont want something that is too big. I would suggest loaner buys the saddle and if and when the horse comes back to you, you buy your own.
 
I have a horse on loan who came with his own tack/rugs etc. His owner had his saddle checked before he came to me and it was found that it had a broken tree. I paid for it to be mended because I was the sole person who would benefit from it. It was also a goodwill gesture to the owner because she was essentially giving me her horse and all the bits that come with it.

If it is a long term loan then I believe it is up to the loanee to buy a new saddle. Short term - def. the owner's responsibility.
 
Do you know for sure that the saddle really has a broken tree? One of the well known saddlers around here seems to see an awful lot of saddles supplied by other saddlers which she says have a broken tree! I was told that the only way to tell for sure is to have it stripped right back.

Assuming that the saddle really does have a broken tree then it should not be used. I think you would need to get a new saddle for your horse that fits you. If the loaner is not happy with that saddle then should should get another at her cost.

The length of the seat should really be determined by the horse's confirmation. I am 5'8" and one of my horses is in a 17" saddle and another is in an 18" saddle.
 
If it doesn't fot the horse you buy it, if it doesn't fit the rider, rider buys it -simples :)

Either way I would have it professionally fitted so that you know it's the correct fit for your horse.
 
so broken tree should not be used and will not be worth a lot for trade in.

I think it depends how long you intend the loan to be for as to who contributes for new saddle. - we had one on loan for a year and owner purchased new (second hand) saddle while we had him as previous one really didn't fit. It then went back with him.
 
Thanks for all the feedback so far. I knew that I would get slated for stating that I'm using a saddle with a broken tree - however the saddler who reflocked it for me said it would be ok to carry on using, I asked him numerous questions at the time. He is someone that I trust as my instructor uses him but I appreciate that it may have been the wrong advice - to be honest until I started googling it properly today I didn't realise the damage it can do.

I'm hoping that I can get the saddle tree fixed as it is a really decent saddle (otherwise I'd bin it), but like eggs has mentioned until it's actually taken apart I don't know how bad or even if the tree is broken. I always thought you'd be able to visibly see if the tree is broken and you definitely can't.

I agree that one or or the other needs to buy a new saddle, a 50/50 split won't work. I'd be happy to buy the saddle off the loaner at the end of the loan. At the moment there is no forseable end date to the loan - it's definitely not a short term thing, otherwise I'd foot the cost. But when I'm only riding the horse a handful of times a year and paying half the insurance I just thought that I shouldn't have to pay for a new saddle that will fit the loaner better than it does me.
 
Depends who wants the saddle when the loan is terminated... We always replace if necessary and then keep the saddle. If the owner wants to keep the saddle afterwards they then either buy it off us or pay for it up front.
 
When my boy went out on loan we had a similar problem to this: she was (er, um) quite a "large" girl and the saddle I'd provided just didn't fit one jot. She was keeping him on livery at a yard which was also a riding school, and I WISH I'd gone up and sorted the thing out myself, because being a riding school, they "found" a saddle which the YM thought fitted, and used that. I didn't actually get to see the saddle on him for a while, but when I did I really did wish I'd asked a saddle fitter to do the job properly - it was all very difficult because the loaner had bought the saddle.

So what I'm saying OP is that YOU, as owner, need to be fully involved in this process and especially so if you retain the right under the loan agreement to ride the horse as well.

I would suggest a way forward that you and the loaner go half-and-half on this - get a proper saddle fitter out and you and she both be there so the saddle fitter can see you both ride the horse. Getting something which will suit you both equally won't be easy however. So you may both need to compromise a little. But personally I feel that if the loaner has taken responsibility for the upkeep of the horse, then it is she who should have the main choice in the matter TBH.

The other thing is that before you get a saddle fitter in; personally I'd suggest getting your horse's back looked at before you do anything else. Using a saddle with a broken tree :( isn't exactly the best thing that you could do for a horse's back.

Then build a bleddy great bonfire and burn the saddle that's got a broken tree!!! Get rid of it from the face of the planet. OR if you feel that there may be a manufacturing issue here, then retain it and pursue the matter with the makers. I bought a saddle for my cob a few years back and it had what I considered to be a manufacturing defect........ so don't discount this if as you say you can't find any other explanation for why the tree broke.
 
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If its a quality saddle it's tree can replaced .
I forget what it costs I have had jumping saddles trees changed a couple of times when horses grew .
You could then keep your saddle for riding the horse and the loaner could buy a addle that suits her ( and the horse of course ).
 
We had a pony on loan and the saddle she came with didn't fit so I purchased two more! I personally wouldn't use a damaged saddle on a pony's back. We have had issues with other pony, she came with a saddle that slipped and as a consequence she has become a bit touchy about being saddled. She was also overweight which didn't help matters. I've gone to basics with a saddle pad til she becomes more comfortable and loses more fat.

I think the fair option is to buy a saddle between you then come to an agreement that at the end of the loan you get the saddle valued and the person keeping the saddle pays half the amount to the other person.
 
Yep after reading this I agree I need to be involved in the saddle fitting process! She is due for a back check next month so I'll get it sorted at the same time. I want to tell the loaner to not ride again until it's sorted to be honest...

It's an Ideal saddle and cost around £500 second hand (but in good condition). Don't mind paying whatever it costs to fix the tree - if it can be fixed and used again, and it doesn't cost more than it's worth! I can always hang onto it for my other semi retired horse who it also fits, as long as the repair means that it's alright to use in future.
 
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