Horse Over Jumping - should I buy?

[Cubbini]

Hi all - I’m looking for some advice please. What are your opinions on buying/owning a horse that overjumps? I feel that although I’m a competent novice there is still work to be done on my seat and balance in general. My concern on owning one like this is that I could lose balance and become unseated (The horse in question can go a whole lesson without over jumping and then the next time do it regularly, or just add in the odd one that catches you off guard!)

Background: I’m on the verge of buying a horse however it’s very apparent that he over jumps both SJ and XC. He is not what I would class as typically green, he’s been jumping for many years (is 13 years old) and it doesn’t seem like a confidence issue. He does not over jump by much margin either it just seems to be his style that he is very bouncy. He is not rushing the fence although can hang in the air so would not be the fasted on the clock. The horse is brilliant in every other way and I feel would be great especially for my main main focus areas of Dressage with some hacking (jumping would not be my main focus).

The seller feels the horse should be top money but would this be regarded as an issue? The horse has competed BE roughly 10 times, has had very mixed results but has won one event and is rated 4star. It has unseated other riders.

Would you buy a horse like this?

Also if you own one what advice or training would you suggest?

 

[be positive]

Hard to say without seeing him but a few alarm bells would ring with a 13 year old that is inconsistent I could suspect something physical such as hocks just starting to show wear and tear which may show up in the flexion tests at vetting, as for whether it will suit you if it has actually unseated more experienced riders I would be a little worried your confidence could suffer if it continued but for hacking and dressage it should be ok if genuinely sound.

As for whether I would buy/ recommend a client to buy it depends on the whole picture not just this one issue but I would definitely get it vetted.

 

[Cubbini]

Hard to say without seeing him but a few alarm bells would ring with a 13 year old that is inconsistent I could suspect something physical such as hocks just starting to show wear and tear which may show up in the flexion tests at vetting, as for whether it will suit you if it has actually unseated more experienced riders I would be a little worried your confidence could suffer if it continued but for hacking and dressage it should be ok if genuinely sound.

As for whether I would buy/ recommend a client to buy it depends on the whole picture not just this one issue but I would definitely get it vetted.

Thanks for your reply, that’s really helpful. I also forgot to mention I’ve seen previous videos of him 5-6 years back and he was also overjumping back then. He has a tendency to throw the rider forward. Current owner always jumps with a neck strap.

 

[be positive]

Thanks for your reply, that’s really helpful. I also forgot to mention I’ve seen previous videos of him 5-6 years back and he was also overjumping back then. He has a tendency to throw the rider forward. Current owner always jumps with a neck strap.

If you want to pm a link to a few details/ advert/ name and possibly a video I will give you my opinion if that is any help.

 

[Auslander]

Is very difficult to say, without seeing what he does. If he is ballooning his fences because he is a naturally extravagant jumper who is used to jumping bigger, he shouldn't be unseating experienced riders. If he's crawling into fences and then having to heave himself into the air, as he doesn't have enough momentum to jump efficiently, that would be unseating. A confident scopy horse who pops in a big jump is fun, but one who doesn't have his heart in it, and has to make a lot of effort to get airborne is really not very pleasant to jump
What do you mean by "rated 4*"?

 

[Flicker]

I agree with all the very sensible replies above.
If you do really like him and if he vets sound, there is a lot of work you can do to become more confident and able to sit his big jumps. With new horses, I always start with poles and small grids first, until I have more of an idea of how they approach fences (I must add that I am a very novice jumper and very lacking in confidence so it takes me a loooooong time to get comfortable over fences). Have a word with your trainer about how you could go about adapting to his quirk, if he is ticking the box in every other respect.

 

[kathantoinette]

Reading that you need more work on your seat and balance in general and then reading further down that this horse has unseated riders, in my opinion I don’t think the horse is for you.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think it's very hard to say without seeing the horse and seeing you ride, unfortunately.

At the moment, I think any horse who has completed BE and who is ridable for a novice will be £££- if this is his only issue, I don't think the owner is unreasonable asking for a fair chunk of cash for him. I get the impression you think she should be asking for less money because he overjumps, but I don't think that is necessarily the case given the current market and the fact that events will be starting up soon.

If you are mainly interested in dressage and hacking, you will probably be able to find a nice horse who is cheaper and perhaps jumps more sensibly/normally. Is there a reason you're particularly interested in this horse?

 

[Cubbini]

If you want to pm a link to a few details/ advert/ name and possibly a video I will give you my opinion if that is any help.

Thank you for the offer, it's really appreciated. He's not officially on the market at the moment, he has been offered to me through a friend so I don't have a link to send you.

 

[Cubbini]

Is very difficult to say, without seeing what he does. If he is ballooning his fences because he is a naturally extravagant jumper who is used to jumping bigger, he shouldn't be unseating experienced riders. If he's crawling into fences and then having to heave himself into the air, as he doesn't have enough momentum to jump efficiently, that would be unseating. A confident scopy horse who pops in a big jump is fun, but one who doesn't have his heart in it, and has to make a lot of effort to get airborne is really not very pleasant to jump
What do you mean by "rated 4*"?

It's hard to describe without being able to share a video with you all. He doesn't balloon as such, it happens randomly at different style fences, even if he's already jumped it OK previously. Also he's not crawling either, but steady paced.

I agree with all the very sensible replies above.
If you do really like him and if he vets sound, there is a lot of work you can do to become more confident and able to sit his big jumps. With new horses, I always start with poles and small grids first, until I have more of an idea of how they approach fences (I must add that I am a very novice jumper and very lacking in confidence so it takes me a loooooong time to get comfortable over fences). Have a word with your trainer about how you could go about adapting to his quirk, if he is ticking the box in every other respect.

Thanks, that's good advice regarding the poles and grid work. This is something that my instructor has also suggested. He definitely ticks all the other boxes.

Reading that you need more work on your seat and balance in general and then reading further down that this horse has unseated riders, in my opinion I don’t think the horse is for you.

Thank you, this is my main concern. However the reason I am torn is because I know that jumping is a much lower priority for me, and like I say above he ticks all the other boxes. He is safe, sensible and very honest to a fence, it's just the overjumping that concerns me. I am trying to weigh up whether it's worth the risk moving forward with buying him if I later incur problems with jumping him due to my own confidence issues etc if I were to become unseated. It's a hard decision when he's great in every other area.

 

[Winters100]

In all honesty if I were novice and aware that I needed to work on my seat and balance this would probably not be the horse for me. Did you try him yet? Do remember that when you buy it is always better to have a horse which you are comfortable riding today, not one which you hope that you will feel comfortable with after some lessons. Good luck, and if you do go for this one have a full vetting done by a vet who you know - not the owner's vet.

 

[Cubbini]

I think it's very hard to say without seeing the horse and seeing you ride, unfortunately.

At the moment, I think any horse who has completed BE and who is ridable for a novice will be £££- if this is his only issue, I don't think the owner is unreasonable asking for a fair chunk of cash for him. I get the impression you think she should be asking for less money because he overjumps, but I don't think that is necessarily the case given the current market and the fact that events will be starting up soon.

If you are mainly interested in dressage and hacking, you will probably be able to find a nice horse who is cheaper and perhaps jumps more sensibly/normally. Is there a reason you're particularly interested in this horse?

Yes you are spot on with that. My instructor feels he is on the expensive side.

I would normally take the advice of my instructor but the main reason I am interested is that he has a wonderful temperament. He has a lot going for him but I feel the owner is pricing him much higher mainly for his temperament rather than overall ability. But I guess that is also down to how the market is at the moment.

I am currently the first person viewing him due to being friends with the owner. If the horse went on the open market my instructor advises he would most likely sell at a lower price than whats being offered to me.

 

[Shilasdair]

I would buy him - but I don't think you should.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

I learnt to jump stupidly on my very green mare and it wasn’t fun. She wasn’t sure, I wasn’t sure and 9 times out of 10 it resulted in me on the floor. She would chip in strides, take out strides, cat leap, duck out the side door etc and my seat just wasn’t secure enough. It threw my confidence and took us a looooong time to get to a point where we are both confidently jumping 60cm rounds.

I personally wouldn’t. It’s so easy to shatter confidence and takes so long to build it back, but that’s just my experience.

 

[Melody Grey]

Could it be eyesight related? Does he jump tighter over the fence if there is a clear groundline?
With a youngster, I’d expect the occasional misjudgment. With something established, I wouldn’t so I think there’s a reason. Is it the way the horse is being ridden/ not ridden (!) at the fence?

 

[Wishfilly]

Yes you are spot on with that. My instructor feels he is on the expensive side.

I would normally take the advice of my instructor but the main reason I am interested is that he has a wonderful temperament. He has a lot going for him but I feel the owner is pricing him much higher mainly for his temperament rather than overall ability. But I guess that is also down to how the market is at the moment.

I am currently the first person viewing him due to being friends with the owner. If the horse went on the open market my instructor advises he would most likely sell at a lower price than whats being offered to me.

Given the way the market is, anything that's ready to go out at BE this season with an average rider and is sound will be £££. Have you looked at the price of comparable horses?

A quick look at horse quest shows me that horses with no record at all are in the £10-15, 000 range with some a bit higher. And those with an affiliated record are around £10k more than that as a minimum. I know you say he has mixed results, but equally he has won an event.

How familiar is your instructor with the market at the moment?

Are you and the owner in the same ball park in terms of what he is worth? If you want him for more than £2-3000 less than what she is asking then I think you have to walk away, because it's unlikely she will come down to your price.

Would you be willing to say rough ballpark prices of what you think the horse is worth and what she is asking for? If you are miles apart, then the overjumping is probably a moot point.

 

[Ambers Echo]

What do you mean by 4*?
What's his BE name? People can look up his record. When you say inconsistent do you mean eliminations and falls or just a mix of scores.

A horse who has won at BE and is 'honest to a fence' - ie unlikely to dump you on the XC or have dirty stops - who is also easy enough for a novice to ride with nice paces and a lovely temperament is going to cost a lot of money. And you will be paying a significant premium for a proven jumping horse. Lots of horses can jump 90/100cm fences but the ones that jump anything they are put at consistently - ie go clear at BE - are much less common and therefore expensive.

The overjumping would not bother me at all if he was consistently clear. My horse ballooned fences randomly all the time but she was fantastically confidence giving as you always knew she would jump us out of trouble if anything went wrong.

 

[Ambers Echo]

ETA - I would not expect overjumping to affect the price - assuming it's just a scopey horse pinging for fun. This horse not being marketed at novices who might find it unsettling. If you love him and can afford him, then by all means buy him. But it's not a 'fault' as such. Just might not be the ideal match for you. The hotse i mentioned above did used to literally jump me off till I got used to her! But I adored her so we worked through it.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Have you ridden the horse?
If yes, have you jumped the horse and did he overjump with you?
Were you able to sit it if he did?

 

[Squeak]

Usually I find if I'm wondering 'if' and 'but' with a horse then it's not the one for me and I've never regretted having walked away from one of them.

 

[stormox]

I dont think 'overjumping' matters - especially if the horse is wrong at a fence and takes off further away rather than chip in I think its a good thing!! Dont forget on a longer stride a horse has to bascule higher to clear a fence than if he's too close.