Horse Panicking/Laying Down Update

Ginger Bear

Ginger Bear

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Feel a bit of a muppet for not figuring this out earlier but following on from my post last week..it's not his mouth or the bit..it's having the girth done up!! I came accross some info while researching his problem & read about cold backed horses.. I have had his back checked by Steph Appleton & she can't find any problems so yesterday I put his saddle on & walked him round without it done up - no problem. Took the saddle off put the bridle on walked him round - no problem. Took the bridle off, put the saddle on & did the girth up one hole (it was so loose it wasn't even touching him) walked him & he panicked & rushed forward, gradually did the girth up bit by bit - no problem after he had had it done up on the first hole. I read some info on horses that just don't like the girth being done up & sometimes they panic & lay down. I thought about the cold backed thing but he never dips away when I mount, when I brush his back, put his saddle on or hose him down. Psychological maybe?? thanks for all your previous posts..
 
Ginger Bear said:
Feel a bit of a muppet for not figuring this out earlier but following on from my post last week..it's not his mouth or the bit..it's having the girth done up!! I came accross some info while researching his problem & read about cold backed horses.. I have had his back checked by Steph Appleton & she can't find any problems so yesterday I put his saddle on & walked him round without it done up - no problem. Took the saddle off put the bridle on walked him round - no problem. Took the bridle off, put the saddle on & did the girth up one hole (it was so loose it wasn't even touching him) walked him & he panicked & rushed forward, gradually did the girth up bit by bit - no problem after he had had it done up on the first hole. I read some info on horses that just don't like the girth being done up & sometimes they panic & lay down. I thought about the cold backed thing but he never dips away when I mount, when I brush his back, put his saddle on or hose him down. Psychological maybe?? thanks for all your previous posts..
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Do you have a link to the information you found? My boy does this. You cannot saddle him when he's tied up - total panic. I have to do it in the stable. Even then, very occasionally he will have a complete panic where he nearly falls over backwards. Again, it's the girth, even when it's so loose that it hardly touches him. It took me ages (with clicker training) to get him to accept the saddle when I first had him. Like your horse he has been checked out time and time again and has three professionally fitted saddles. It doesn't happen with any one of them in particular. Most the time now though you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him. He just stands there calmly loose in the stable whilst I put the saddle on him and gradually girth him up. I think it's the constriction that panics him, as he also freaked with the pessoa on and with side reins on. Anything attached to his girth or saddle really (except for a running martingale. He's fine with that). I would love to find out why he does it. My theory is that something fightening or painful happened to him once such as travelling in a saddle that slipped round, or catching his saddle on something?
 
I think 'girthiness' is one of the classic signs for ulcers. Might be wrong though.

Whatever it is, it's not right/normal so i personally would want to investigate further if it were me.

Good luck, hopefully he's just very sensitive and it's not anything horrible.:)

Trina x
 
Thanks for your replies. Wagtail our horses do the same thing exactly. I have his back checked by an excellent physio & she didn't charge me last time as there is nothing wrong. I think the same, it's the panic with the girth, and agree about a bad memory thing! You'll notice with thelink that i just pm'd you about the section where some horses panic because of the restriction. I don't even think it's a cold backed thing as he has no signs of this as previously said & physio found nothing! Again I also have a professionally fitted saddle & he isn't touchy with his back or when I put the saddle on.

Trina1989, thanks for the info on ulcers, he has no signs of this at all, excellent appetite, never colicy, in excellent condition etc etc..but did mention this as a posibility to my vet & he is certain it's nothing to do with ulcers.
 
A horse I used to have lessons on did this. He was fine with the girth done up loosely, but as soon as you tightened it more, to mount, he'd sink to the floor. He never seemed distressed about it, whereas we were!

He did grow out of it eventually.....
 
It's actually a pretty common problem - lots of horses get past the "panic" stage with work but remain difficult/odd/semi-dangerous to girth up. I once had one panic in a standing stall (I was not warned) when I did its girth up. :eek:

It can be a sign of back pain/ill fitting saddle/ulcers, but it can also be a problem around the area the actual girth goes - muscle spasms, never damage etc. I don't have the reference to hand but I remember reading an interesting investigation of the problem as it related to damage done by an ill fitting/too tightly done up girth. I have definitely seen young horses change "overnight" from having someone slam the girth up one day, particularly if they haven't moved around a bit. The reference mentioned that this can be the horse equivalent of being punched in the solar plexus! Unfortunately, once something like this has happened you have not only whatever physical damage but the horse's fear of a repeat, which makes it tense, which makes it harder/more uncomfortable to do up the girth, which makes the horse even more tense . . .
 
TarrSteps said:
It's actually a pretty common problem - lots of horses get past the "panic" stage with work but remain difficult/odd/semi-dangerous to girth up. I once had one panic in a standing stall (I was not warned) when I did its girth up. :eek:

It can be a sign of back pain/ill fitting saddle/ulcers, but it can also be a problem around the area the actual girth goes - muscle spasms, never damage etc. I don't have the reference to hand but I remember reading an interesting investigation of the problem as it related to damage done by an ill fitting/too tightly done up girth. I have definitely seen young horses change "overnight" from having someone slam the girth up one day, particularly if they haven't moved around a bit. The reference mentioned that this can be the horse equivalent of being punched in the solar plexus! Unfortunately, once something like this has happened you have not only whatever physical damage but the horse's fear of a repeat, which makes it tense, which makes it harder/more uncomfortable to do up the girth, which makes the horse even more tense . . .
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Interesting you mention spasms, as once when he did it in the arena, I noticed he did appear to be experiencing spasms from the girth area right up his sides. He has had the vet, chiro and physio to him and no problems have been found (apart from his hock spavin). He hasn't done it for the last few weeks. I tack him up in the stable and do his girth up really loosely and then walk him to the arena where I do up his girth a hole at a time and walk him a few steps inbetween. Interestingly, he has never reacted at all to me mounting him. No back dipping or panic at all. It must all be about the girth.
 
Tarrsteps - Thanks for that excellent info.. I've had him 2 years & he has only done it twice so it isn't an everyday thing.. just a worry when it does happen! So what should I be doing to check if it's a pin thing or a stress thing?

Wagtail - our horses sound exactly the same! You don't have a tb by chance do you? lol.
 
Ginger Bear said:
Tarrsteps - Thanks for that excellent info.. I've had him 2 years & he has only done it twice so it isn't an everyday thing.. just a worry when it does happen! So what should I be doing to check if it's a pin thing or a stress thing?

Wagtail - our horses sound exactly the same! You don't have a tb by chance do you? lol.
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Yes :)

I have noticed that he has very prominent bumps (those bumps that all horses have about 6 inches above/behind the elbow - don't know what they are called.) But I wonder if he's been really pinched there in the past by someone wrenching up the girth?
 
Hi.
This discussion has made me recall a talk that i recently attended by solution saddles. There was an image in the slides they used that really stuck with me. If a saddle moves around, then often a quick fix is to over tighten the girth. This can lead to tears in the soft tissue that creates little lumps around the girth area (some that you can push your finger up into) from the underlying muscle? poking out (i think - don't quote me :o). If your boy has these then he has definately had his girth too tight in the past and could well be remembering past pain (and have minor discomfort still due to the soft tissue damage). Have a look on this link, it's the slides labelled 14.

http://www.solution-saddles.co.uk/ssbrowsingbook1.html

Hope that helps a bit
Trina x
 
I've had 2 like this. The first was rising 4 when we got her and she was always touchy about being girthed, once dropping like a stone to the concrete floor! years later we found that she couldn't eat sugar/cereals. She did improve with the changed diet but was always touchy, including with rugs, for the rest of her 24 yrs.
The other one is a recent,much older addition to our herd, who has been in a RS, 2 homes ago. She did threaten to bite as you put the saddle cloth on then again with the saddle and even more as you went to fasten the girth. Having read that this could be a symptom of ulcers we now give her aloe vera juice and she is much improved. We also take girthing very steadily (we always have). I don't know what the actual reason was but we certainly have a vast improvement.
I do think that sometimes RS horses have not been treated with much consideration because the staff are in a rush or the students are novices, so I do think that this was a factor with her. The last owner also fed her far too much cereal last winter.
 
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trina1982 said:
Hi.
This discussion has made me recall a talk that i recently attended by solution saddles. There was an image in the slides they used that really stuck with me. If a saddle moves around, then often a quick fix is to over tighten the girth. This can lead to tears in the soft tissue that creates little lumps around the girth area (some that you can push your finger up into) from the underlying muscle? poking out (i think - don't quote me :o). If your boy has these then he has definately had his girth too tight in the past and could well be remembering past pain (and have minor discomfort still due to the soft tissue damage). Have a look on this link, it's the slides labelled 14.

http://www.solution-saddles.co.uk/ssbrowsingbook1.html

Hope that helps a bit
Trina x
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Haven't ever noticed these on my boy but will be checking tonight!
 
trina1982 said:
Hi.
This discussion has made me recall a talk that i recently attended by solution saddles. There was an image in the slides they used that really stuck with me. If a saddle moves around, then often a quick fix is to over tighten the girth. This can lead to tears in the soft tissue that creates little lumps around the girth area (some that you can push your finger up into) from the underlying muscle? poking out (i think - don't quote me :o). If your boy has these then he has definately had his girth too tight in the past and could well be remembering past pain (and have minor discomfort still due to the soft tissue damage). Have a look on this link, it's the slides labelled 14.

http://www.solution-saddles.co.uk/ssbrowsingbook1.html

Hope that helps a bit
Trina x
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Thanks for that link. It is very useful. No, my horse doesn't have that kind of damage he just has very pronounced long bumps at either side. All horses have them just not as pronounced as his (on some horses they are not visible at all). Will try to find a picture.

ETA: this horse has similar bumps behind his elbow http://www.tienquarterhorses.net/stallions/two_id_sweet_jack2.htm
 
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