Horse pins ears when leg aids are given?

[deoni12]

My 5 year old horse pins her ears back when a leg aid is put on. For example she will canter out of her own choice, but if you then ask for it yourself she will pin her ears and sometimes throw her head round like a girthy horse! She seems to do it in anticipation too and is worse some sessions than others, but does do what you ask. She doesnt do it on the lunge which makes me think theres something wrong. Likewise she is better with voice aids but still anticipates your leg. She is forward going so I have never used much leg with her anyway but I think she used to be ridden in spurs in last home. She will also do it on the ground if you push her side to move her over. Jumping she is off though and I have no brakes and no leg aids are used = no angry faces??

She is not nappy and usually forward going. I'm wondering if she doesn't want to work, but I'm sure there is something up as she will canter by her choice and has had physio and saddle done many times in the year and a half I've owned her, has anyone else experienced anything similar?

 

[putasocinit]

Maybe she is in pain, do you use spurs maybe they hurt, or just the pressure you are using might be stronger than is required, definitely would call it a form of resistance.

Sorry just seen further on your post maybe her previous home hurt her with the spurs and she remembers it

 

[Pigeon]

When I first got mine he would do this, I think he was quite weak and found work in the school hard, which was partly the problem, and also he didn't really understand what I wanted. I did get him checked out and all was fine, with him it was a resistance/unhappiness at what was being asked rather than a physical problem, though I probably would still get vet or physio out to have a look. Also might be worth looking at feeding a gut balancer.


Are you certain you're not restricting her in front, and not using your leg too strongly? I would try riding using voice aids backed up with the lightest leg aids, and then gradually stop the voice aids, and see if she's happier.

 

[deoni12]

When I first got mine he would do this, I think he was quite weak and found work in the school hard, which was partly the problem, and also he didn't really understand what I wanted. I did get him checked out and all was fine, with him it was a resistance/unhappiness at what was being asked rather than a physical problem, though I probably would still get vet or physio out to have a look. Also might be worth looking at feeding a gut balancer.


Are you certain you're not restricting her in front, and not using your leg too strongly? I would try riding using voice aids backed up with the lightest leg aids, and then gradually stop the voice aids, and see if she's happier.

Hi thanks for your reply. Definitely not using strong leg aids as she is very forward going and have been careful about it just in case. My old instructor rode her for a while when we first got her and thought she was just grumpy but I think there is more to it! Though tried the usual saddle and back checks multiple times. Mine is only young though so she might just be like yours, unhappy and weak etc due to her age and lack of schooling?

We had some dressage lessons last winter where she learnt to leg yield and turn on the forehand (all in trot) and she was ok then, its often just when you ask for canter, but say a week later or jumping she will be cantering herself to the point that you can't stop her. Showing earlier this year she was warming up very strong and in the ring was very hard to slow...then when we had stopped and it came to out individual show and I asked her to canter she wasnt happy. Basically she will canter on her own terms and jumping she's off. I'm wondering if it could be related to her seasons and pain in her side as she does it on the ground too, or if she might be just being nappy? someone suggested she is still young and not very well schooled so she might be unbalanced, but that doesnt explain why she will still decide she is having a canter some days and is very strong. She does understand leg aids.. I'm just so confused!

 

[Pigeon]

Is she off when you do up the girth/put on rugs? I've always had geldings but perhaps try her on regumate or something? It does seem odd that she does it on the ground too. Physio found nothing? I would worry about something gastric/mare issues, perhaps review her diet.

It sounds almost like she's not accepting the leg, maybe just doesn't know what it means? I would say loads of groundwork with her, lots of yielding (use your hand to signal leg yield, turn on the forehand, walk pirouette etc, so she knows to yeild to pressure) and hacking to help with the nappiness. How does she react to leg aids on hacks?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Mine used to do it and she is just basically a horrible crabby witch.

She used to do this when I asked for canter

But she is over that now thank god. Nothing wrong with her, just doesn't like being touched anywhere at any time and lets you know! She is also very clever!

 

[Embo]

My gelding has started doing this since I've uppped his schooling. For him I think it's just resistence, as he isn't girthy or sensitive around his tummy. That, and my riding has improved so my leg aids are now in the correct place so it feels different for him lol.

It's funny as he will pin his ears back and sometimes turn his head to give you evils, but only the first time you ask for the transition. After that, he settles and just gets on with it.

 

[4April]

Do the usual back, saddle and teeth checks.
you could try someone lunging you and in a saddle and without. So your not putting your leg on in canter?
Maybe he doesnt like spurs.
Some horses have quirks.
Fat and fibre diet to supply low release energy for him and promote hind gut efficiency.

 

[deoni12]

Is she off when you do up the girth/put on rugs? I've always had geldings but perhaps try her on regumate or something? It does seem odd that she does it on the ground too. Physio found nothing? I would worry about something gastric/mare issues, perhaps review her diet.

It sounds almost like she's not accepting the leg, maybe just doesn't know what it means? I would say loads of groundwork with her, lots of yielding (use your hand to signal leg yield, turn on the forehand, walk pirouette etc, so she knows to yeild to pressure) and hacking to help with the nappiness. How does she react to leg aids on hacks?

She is fine to rug and tack up but very very occasionally she will do it when you put her saddle on then settles again. She is fine to rug but doesn't like you messing with it eg pulling it up, to the side to adjust it. I just feel theres something to it. She is quite forward on hacks so is keen to canter, so usually she goes from a click, but if shes having a lazy day and you use your leg she will do the face pulling. Could be she is just resisting, but with doing it on the ground etc I don't know!!

In the year and a half I've had her she has been seen by a physio and 2 chiros and had 4 saddle fittings, one included a solution treeless saddle. She had a few things up but nothing major though and it made her slightly off behind and her poll etc. Also at first she went on schooling livery as it was on her ad she needed schooled (she was perfect to hack) and she came with a badly fitting saddle and was rearing when asked to canter, but after back and saddle sorted this has never happened again. She was also broken quite early and jumped a lot before we got her as a 4 year old, but we rode her lightly hacking for the first year and she had a long winter off and a few months off this year too. Probably should have mentioned that earlier but it slipped my mind!

 

[deoni12]

Mine used to do it and she is just basically a horrible crabby witch.

She used to do this when I asked for canter

But she is over that now thank god. Nothing wrong with her, just doesn't like being touched anywhere at any time and lets you know! She is also very clever!

That's interesting thank you. Mine loves a good grooming session or I would be thinking this!!

 

[deoni12]

Do the usual back, saddle and teeth checks.
you could try someone lunging you and in a saddle and without. So your not putting your leg on in canter?
Maybe he doesnt like spurs.
Some horses have quirks.
Fat and fibre diet to supply low release energy for him and promote hind gut efficiency.

Hi thanks I do put my leg on to ask for canter, but usually she is forward so I don't need to. If she is being lazy and I ask thats when she does it. I've never ridden in spurs but I think I remember her old home did. I think theres more to it than a quirk, like pain or confusion as she's generally willing! Her diet is all fibre based and a general supplement, as my other horse is unshod so I applied the same feed idea.

 

[deoni12]

.

 

[BBP]

My guess would be its your riding. Mine does it sometimes and I'm pretty sure its because I sit left hipbone back which pushes his saddle into his right shoulder, blocking him and causing him discomfort. And i either hold too much contact or drop him. Mine like yours is also perfectly willing. If i am particularly stiff in my back he'll pin his ears flat back and even grind to a halt if i so much as think canter, because my body is already blocking him. If my back is supple and not hurting (slipped disc) and I think canter he will do incredible transitions. I hope you don't take it that im being nasty, but even good riders do things without realising.

 

[deoni12]

My guess would be its your riding. Mine does it sometimes and I'm pretty sure its because I sit left hipbone back which pushes his saddle into his right shoulder, blocking him and causing him discomfort. And i either hold too much contact or drop him. Mine like yours is also perfectly willing. If i am particularly stiff in my back he'll pin his ears flat back and even grind to a halt if i so much as think canter, because my body is already blocking him. If my back is supple and not hurting (slipped disc) and I think canter he will do incredible transitions. I hope you don't take it that im being nasty, but even good riders do things without realising.

Thanks. Its just that she does't put her ears back if she decides to canter and does it if my instructor rides! If it was just me riding this would probably be true!

 

[TrasaM]

When I first got mine he would do this, I think he was quite weak and found work in the school hard, which was partly the problem, and also he didn't really understand what I wanted. I did get him checked out and all was fine, with him it was a resistance/unhappiness at what was being asked rather than a physical problem, though I probably would still get vet or physio out to have a look. Also might be worth looking at feeding a gut balancer.


Are you certain you're not restricting her in front, and not using your leg too strongly? I would try riding using voice aids backed up with the lightest leg aids, and then gradually stop the voice aids, and see if she's happier.

Found this very interesting Pidgeon. I was put on a new horse for my lesson this week and he'd flinch each time I put my leg on. Each upwards transition he'd raise his head and shoot forwards. We interpreted this as him bring anxious because of how he'd been ridden and that he associated being asked to pick up the pace with the reins being jerked or tightened. He Almost jumped out of his skin when I asked for canter poor lad. Also he's not that fit I think. Lovely horse so I'm hoping your experience means that he can get over this.
Wasn't my leg aids as I'm quite light and I was put on him to test the RIs theory as I've got, she says, kind steady hands. I've asked if he's going to be for sale hence my quoting your post

 

[TrasaM]

Mine used to do it and she is just basically a horrible crabby witch.

She used to do this when I asked for canter

But she is over that now thank god. Nothing wrong with her, just doesn't like being touched anywhere at any time and lets you know! She is also very clever!

Lol. fW. She looks like she'd like to eat you!

 

[yaffsimone1]

Mine used to do it and she is just basically a horrible crabby witch.

She used to do this when I asked for canter

But she is over that now thank god. Nothing wrong with her, just doesn't like being touched anywhere at any time and lets you know! She is also very clever!

Haha yes horrible witch I know them all too well....nothing wrong or in pain was just a cowbag and chose when she did and didn't want to work!

 

[yaffsimone1]

If she is being lazy and I ask thats when she does it.

If she does it when she is being lazy and not at any other time maybe she just doesn't want to work and she is saying to you 'get off and leave me alone'....its a mare thing!

Is she in season at the time??

 

[deoni12]

If she does it when she is being lazy and not at any other time maybe she just doesn't want to work and she is saying to you 'get off and leave me alone'....its a mare thing!

Is she in season at the time??

I did think it was connected to her seasons but she has been doing it recently too and def not in season. There is the being lazy thing and is very possible, but she will do it if you press her sides etc to move her over when on the ground, though again can just be her being moody. She is ok on the lunge too. However for example I took her to a show she charged round excited, cantering and me calming her down then as soon as we'd stopped for a little bit waiting to start (showing) and I asked her to trot thats when she started anticipating it she starts with ears back etc. Forgetting all the little details as I havent been riding her much recently but want to sort it before next spring.

When I first got her and went in the school and asked for canter I was terrified as she literally turned to bite my leg, she almost stopped to do it and was evil! But now only puts ears back. I don't know im sure its something, just for options is there anything medial that could cause it? I dont think its saddle/back etc due to her being ok to canter when it's her decision. She isn't very well schooled so could she simply be unbalanced as when she does canter she tends to speed?

 

[yaffsimone1]

I did think it was connected to her seasons but she has been doing it recently too and def not in season. There is the being lazy thing and is very possible, but she will do it if you press her sides etc to move her over when on the ground, though again can just be her being moody. She is ok on the lunge too. However for example I took her to a show she charged round excited, cantering and me calming her down then as soon as we'd stopped for a little bit waiting to start (showing) and I asked her to trot thats when she started anticipating it she starts with ears back etc. Forgetting all the little details as I havent been riding her much recently but want to sort it before next spring.

When I first got her and went in the school and asked for canter I was terrified as she literally turned to bite my leg, she almost stopped to do it and was evil! But now only puts ears back. I don't know im sure its something, just for options is there anything medial that could cause it? I dont think its saddle/back etc due to her being ok to canter when it's her decision. She isn't very well schooled so could she simply be unbalanced as when she does canter she tends to speed?

Sorry i've you've covered this already but how long have you had her and what is her history i.e has she been used for riding school and kids with flapping legs??

You could try this (I did this when I got my ex racer as she wasn't used to legs being wrapped round) when you lunge her leave the stirrups long so they flap / move around her sides and see what reaction she gives. That will help give a good indication of whether its your riding or if she simply does not like leg contact

Its a shame you cant get a photo because the eyes and facial expression will give a good indication of whether its pain or her just being grumpy

If you ruled out back, ill fitting saddle etc etc and its gone from bending round at mounting to ears being pinned could it possibly be learnt behaviour from previous ownership that is slowly getting better?

 

[stormox]

Quite a few horses are like this when you first start using leg-aids. Ive known them cow-kick as well. Basically they haven't learn that leg-aids mean 'go forward'. After all, why should a totally untrained horse connect squeezing with the legs and move faster? They have to be taught. And it seems she has learnt that if she puts her ears back and swishes her tail (and usually they put their heads up) you ease off the pressure. She is probably a bit slow to move from halt to walk too??
You need to be very consistent- if a stronger squeeze doesn't work, try a sharp tap with a schooling whip, or a poke of spurs, to reinforce the leg aid. And make sure you aren't restricting with the hands while you do it- you need a forward reaction- and if its into gallop, great!! Also, practise your trot/canter transitions out on hacks, where horses tend to be more forward going anyway.
Ive broken a lot of horses, and never known one to not get out of the 'grumpy, ears back' attitude.

 

[yaffsimone1]

I meant bending round a canter...sorry

 

[vanrim]

I have a mare who was backed this year and is exactly the same right down to turning round to bite at my feet!. I agree with everything Stormox has said. Some mares seem to be more irritated by the riders leg than others. I find my mare is better at the start if I use no leg but tap her with the whip and use voice aids instead until she is going forward and I can use my leg without her objecting. You also need to try and keep her head and neck carriage low if you can as when the head is up the back is tight and this acts as a block. The "grumpy, ears back" description fits mine to a tee. She even kicks out too and can get in a right temper until she is really motoring forward.

 

[vanrim]

PS Stormox - your post has actually helped me understand what is going on with my mare and made me realise that what she is doing is not that unusual!

 

[deoni12]

Sorry i've you've covered this already but how long have you had her and what is her history i.e has she been used for riding school and kids with flapping legs??

You could try this (I did this when I got my ex racer as she wasn't used to legs being wrapped round) when you lunge her leave the stirrups long so they flap / move around her sides and see what reaction she gives. That will help give a good indication of whether its your riding or if she simply does not like leg contact

Its a shame you cant get a photo because the eyes and facial expression will give a good indication of whether its pain or her just being grumpy

If you ruled out back, ill fitting saddle etc etc and its gone from bending round at mounting to ears being pinned could it possibly be learnt behaviour from previous ownership that is slowly getting better?

I have a picture I can PM of if? she never did it mounting, just when asked to canter she'd almost stop and snap! She's 5 i got her at 4 and hasn't had much schooling but did a lot of jumping before i got her and is very strong jumping. Her old owner had backed her etc and is experienced but on her ad it said needs work on schooling. When I got her she on schooling livery for a month and was rearing etc when asked to canter but after saddle fit and back done she hasn't done this since. I continued getting someone to school her for a bit then just hacked her out and she had about 4 months off over winter. During the year and a 1/2 ive owner her weve had millions of saddle fitters, including treeless to cover all areas, and physios/chiros!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Lol. fW. She looks like she'd like to eat you!

She has had an abscess in a hind foot and every time I change the poultice she wants to kick me in the head. She is such a cow I don't know what I did to deserve a horse like her. She isn't actually badly behaved just crabby as sin (and much worse before the abscess popped).

Haha yes horrible witch I know them all too well....nothing wrong or in pain was just a cowbag and chose when she did and didn't want to work!

She doesn't do that now, but its taken a year!

 

[deoni12]

Quite a few horses are like this when you first start using leg-aids. Ive known them cow-kick as well. Basically they haven't learn that leg-aids mean 'go forward'. After all, why should a totally untrained horse connect squeezing with the legs and move faster? They have to be taught. And it seems she has learnt that if she puts her ears back and swishes her tail (and usually they put their heads up) you ease off the pressure. She is probably a bit slow to move from halt to walk too??
You need to be very consistent- if a stronger squeeze doesn't work, try a sharp tap with a schooling whip, or a poke of spurs, to reinforce the leg aid. And make sure you aren't restricting with the hands while you do it- you need a forward reaction- and if its into gallop, great!! Also, practise your trot/canter transitions out on hacks, where horses tend to be more forward going anyway.
Ive broken a lot of horses, and never known one to not get out of the 'grumpy, ears back' attitude.

Hey thanks for your reply. Wish it was this but the halt to walk transition is fine and same walk to trot. In my 1st few dressage lessons the instructor was trying to get her to move away from my leg instead of taking off. Do you think even though shes been on schooling livery etc she still is a bit confused by it? She has been broken about 2 years now with no other issues really?

Been looking through pictures.. The days I remember her being very strong (as in no stopping her) her ears are pricked forward and she looks very happy. I will practice what you suggest

 

[stormox]

deoni12, how is she when asked to canter when out on a hack? Or following another horse? I think that when you ask for canter she maybe doesn't think you really mean it, and if she behaved while on schooling livery maybe she thought the rider meant business!! Als0a change of scenery might have made her think a bit. I would try what I suggested, also do a lot of cantering on hacks, maybe a few sponsored rides, and- dare I say it- hunting. So she realises cantering can be FUN FUN FUN!!

 

[deoni12]

deoni12, how is she when asked to canter when out on a hack? Or following another horse? I think that when you ask for canter she maybe doesn't think you really mean it, and if she behaved while on schooling livery maybe she thought the rider meant business!! Als0a change of scenery might have made her think a bit. I would try what I suggested, also do a lot of cantering on hacks, maybe a few sponsored rides, and- dare I say it- hunting. So she realises cantering can be FUN FUN FUN!!

Hi On a hack she is generally keen and will be ready to canter so if we are trotting it just takes a few clicks and she's off. In company she was overly strong and overtook the other horses (and kicked out ) and I could not stop her. I haven't hacked out with other horses since then except my other horse and she is always in front of him. On schooling livery she was rearing when asked to canter but she was doing it, she had her back and saddle done and never has reared since. Also in the school somedays she is forward and just canters round if I want trot, but it's when i actually ask for canter she is moody. I will try what you said thank you. Likewise jumping she will be moody initially when I ask, but then she turns very strong, ears pricked and I can't stop so I will definitely work on what you say! thank you.

 

[jl359]

Might be worth considering ulcers?

You could always trial some coligone to see if there is any improvement?