Horse poo and motorbikes

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mperson01

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I'm posting here for a second opinion. I've been having a facebook debate with a motor cyclist who popped up on a friend's feed saying that he wished all riders would would stick to bridle paths, as there are plenty of them. I did point out that apart from the fact that there aren't plenty of bridle paths, and that roads have to be used to get those there are, but his main gripe seemed to be that his brother had hit a horse poo on a blind bend, and fell off said bike. Therefore all riders, if they really MUST use the road should get off and immediately clean up any poo. My question is, for those particularly who ride bikes and horses, is poo in the road especially dangerous, or is this the first ever known accident due to a poo? Is it senaible and good practice to do this? Also, as a driver, I suggested that excess speed (but not speeding)may have played a part, but was quickly shot down for sterotyping all motorcyclists as speeders. Is it the case that you can't easily change line on a bike, should such a hazard present itself?
 
If it's round a blind bend you don't really stand much chance, no - theoretically you shouldn't be going so fast that you can't respond if there is a hazard around that bend, but that's not always reasonable and doesn't imply speeding. My gut feeling would be that either hitting the poo (hehe) or changing line quickly could have been his undoing.

So yeah, it is pretty dangerous, but you're taught in IAM training (and probs basic training too, but I'm too old to remember!) that hazards like that are part and parcel of country roads and as a motorcyclist it's up to you to ride carefully. I wouldn't dream of expecting farmers to wash tractor mud off the road and that's a far bigger hazard.
 
I'm sure it is a hazard, but it could have been a pothole, fallen branch, oil, squashed animal they hit.

The thought of getting off a horse to clear horse poo on a blind bend doesn't bear thinking about. I do clear up any around my neighbours even though we are on a bridleway.

I hate that argument about you should stick to bridleways, you should have heard the uproar around here when the BHS tried (and almost succeeded) in getting a footpath upgraded to a bridleway. Why do you need more bridleways was one question I was asked!
 
I have heard that fresh horse poo can be slippy for bikes. However it would be really dangerous for horseriders to have to dismount and clear up poo on the road, you certainly wouldn't be in full control of your horse while doing that which I'm sure would be against the highway code. Horses should stay over to the left by the curb (therefore any poo is at the edge of the road) and bike riders should therefore be able to avoid the poo easily. We all share the road and we should be considerate each other.
 
It would be very slippy for a bike to hit poo, however no bike should be going that fast that they cant take evasive action. Its not poo I find the worst, its flipping gravel/pebbles. It looks like a normal surface till you hit it!
 
As horses are most likely to be pooing in country roads where there is already an abundance of mud at various times of the year, I don't think his request is reasonable. I understand that it must be dangerous, and I definitely sympathise, but I just don't see a practical or realistic solution. As Pebble101 said - that hazard could have been anything. We can't remove every single hazard from the roads every second of the day. Horse poo is another of the inevitable risks of modern life.
 
A manhole cover is FAR more slippery for bikes than a steaming pile....

As a biker & also a rider, I ride according to the road, the conditions & the weather.
As said above, part of basic training is to a, think ahead, b. plan the ride, c. Be observant.

Also taught is when riding on country roads, be aware of large machinery, moving livestock and other items which can block the road or leave the road in a dangerous condidtion.

OP, your mate would get this on a bike forum: 'Poor obs mate' from any seasoned rider. (poor observation)
 
Agree that the bike should be able to change course without being in danger of coming off/ having an accident and agree that that could easily have been mud, rubbish, a fallen branch etc etc so not really an argument to be had there
 
If he doesn't like horse poo on the road, I'm sure no one would mind if *he* stopped to pick it up? :p

Where does he expect us to put said poo though? I'm not sure my pockets would be big enough :p
 
I would agree with others that there are far more hazardous/slippy stuff on the road then horse poo for motorcyclists.

I find the mentality of some folk and thinking its easy to just hop off etc quite ridiculous :p
 
I don't have a bike now, but I used to. Your friend's friend is just looking for an excuse to hide his own mistake in my opinion.

Just like any other vehicle you ride (drive) within your ability to see hazards before you hit them or take the consequences.
 
totally negligible risk compared to cow muck, which is far more common and spread all over the road! Likewise the bits that dribble off the muckspreader. That's almost like butter from a slippery perspective. Try asking a farmer to clean the road when they move the cows for milking and they'll give the appropriate response.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
A manhole cover is FAR more slippery for bikes than a steaming pile....

As a biker & also a rider, I ride according to the road, the conditions & the weather.
As said above, part of basic training is to a, think ahead, b. plan the ride, c. Be observant.

Also taught is when riding on country roads, be aware of large machinery, moving livestock and other items which can block the road or leave the road in a dangerous condidtion.

OP, your mate would get this on a bike forum: 'Poor obs mate' from any seasoned rider. (poor observation)
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Ah! Poor obs lol. Most definitely.

As another biker, I was always taught that you must be able to stop in the distance that you can see ahead. If you are on a straight road, and you don't see the poo, it's poor obs. If you go round a corner and there's poo on the "racing line", and you are unable to avoid it, then you are going too fast for the conditions/ amount of visibility you have at that moment. On a blind bend, that poo could be a tractor doing 5 mph, or a broken down vehicle, or the actual horse.
 
It's approaching harvest time, let's hope he rides sufficiently sensibly to avoid the golden ballbearings that fall off the wheat trailers.

You're on a bike, you're vulnerable to all sorts, the only way to stay alive is to keep well aware of what is on the road ahead.
 
I've been riding motorbikes since 1977, raced off road and even been a despatch rider in my time too and the most things that have nearly had me off weren't horse poo but wet leaves, black ice, mud from tractors and diesel dumped on the road by heavy goods vehicles and buses as well as swanning round the corner on a country lane to come face to face with a sea of fridges, freezers and cookers fly tipped in the middle of the road.
I did encounter a bad section of road one night, coming home from Smallfield round the Outwood Lane in the dark (narrow, twisty, very dark country lane) in January I hit a cow poo slick, often referred to as a countryside oil slick. The resulting tank slapper on my Yamaha FZR1000 was a performance that would have qualified for a position in Strictly Come Dancing, nearly had to change my trousers when I regained control..................
In all those thousands of miles riding I have never slid on horse poo and there's plenty round here, infact, it's a damn sight easier to see and avoid than diesel or black ice
The so called biker lacks experience in riding by the sounds of it as most seasoned bikers will encounter all the above and worse, it's what riding bikes is all about
 
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A friend of mine is a scientist and needed some v fresh horse poo to take to work one day. She stopped in the middle of the road with carrier bags and collected it to take back to the yard!! So it is doable but she got some v strange looks
:lol:
 
I ride a bike and yes horse poo could take you off the bike but so could lots of other things you find all over the road

It's unfortunately just one of the many hazards bike riders face on the roads.

Hence why must if not all biker are extremely observant.

Although if I did come off my bike due to horse poop is be pretty angry to so I assume he just letting off steam

I imagine the accident prob could of been avoided had the said biker being paying more attention although shading in trees can hide all manner of nasties lurking on the road

A lot of non horsey people don't think horses should be aloud on road as they are a danger , which technically they are I guess.
 
mperson01 said:
I'm posting here for a second opinion. I've been having a facebook debate with a motor cyclist who popped up on a friend's feed saying that he wished all riders would would stick to bridle paths, as there are plenty of them. I did point out that apart from the fact that there aren't plenty of bridle paths, and that roads have to be used to get those there are, but his main gripe seemed to be that his brother had hit a horse poo on a blind bend, and fell off said bike. Therefore all riders, if they really MUST use the road should get off and immediately clean up any poo. My question is, for those particularly who ride bikes and horses, is poo in the road especially dangerous, or is this the first ever known accident due to a poo? Is it senaible and good practice to do this? Also, as a driver, I suggested that excess speed (but not speeding)may have played a part, but was quickly shot down for sterotyping all motorcyclists as speeders. Is it the case that you can't easily change line on a bike, should such a hazard present itself?
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I haven't read any replies because I don't need to. His brother came off because he was riding beyond his vanishing point. That is...he was taking the corner at a speed which meant he could not have come to a stop under breaking by the time he the road in view ran out. If a motorbike rider can't manoeuvre around or stop in front of an obstacle in the road, he needs to seriously re-think the manner in which he rides his bike. Ask your friend who he would blame if his brother had gone around the corner to meet a tractor or car emerging from a side road???

I honestly get fed up of motorbike riders blaming stuff like this on other people. It's actually really quite easy to be safe on a motorbike. Your life and the futures of other road users are at the mercy of a bikers right hand and brain. I say "futures" of other road users because while many drivers do cause motorcyclists to come off and be killed, excessive speed by the rider is often a contributing factor and the blame should not IMO always lie fully on the shoulders of the driver. There are thousands of drivers alive right now, living with the nightmare of remembering a collision with a bike in which the biker died. All it takes is for bikers to be a little more intelligent in their riding and drivers to be a little more observant.

OP...am I on your facebook? If I am, direct me to this thread as it sounds like your friend needs to hear a dose of reality.

I am sorry his brother came off his bike, but it is entirely his brothers fault. Dan and I have had up to 9 bikes in the garage between us and done literally hundreds of thousands of miles and trust me...we know how to have fun, but it is absolutely possible to do it safely.

Ask your friend if his brother understands the concepts of "in slow - out fast" and "riding to the vanishing point"?

Finally...Are we to make trees clean up their leaves in the autum/drivers stop and clean up their diesel spills etc? He's upset and being defensive...but the best way he can help prevent his brother being in an even worst state one day is to open his eyes and give him some constructive advice!
 
Floxie said:
hazards like that are part and parcel of country roads and as a motorcyclist it's up to you to ride carefully. I wouldn't dream of expecting farmers to wash tractor mud off the road and that's a far bigger hazard.
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This said it for me, however it's also nice to see a lot of common sense replies from horse and bike riders alike, here :)
 
I ride a bike and can honestly say that I'm perfectly capable of missing any poo in the road. I don't ride particularly slowly but I do ride to the conditions of the road. Most horse poos are towards the kerbside and we really shouldn't be riding anywhere near the kerb, we're taught to ride in the middle of the carriageway just like a car would. I bet he was riding like a ****. A wet road after a long dry spell is particularly treacherous, you can see the oil sitting on the surface.
 
mperson01 said:
Also, as a driver, I suggested that excess speed (but not speeding)may have played a part, but was quickly shot down for sterotyping all motorcyclists as speeders. Is it the case that you can't easily change line on a bike, should such a hazard present itself?
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Yes, please don't assume that all motorcyclists go at excess speeds. Although I haven't ridden a motorbike for a couple of years I did for some time before and never broke the speed limit (even though on a plenty fast enough bike, I'm not talking a 125)! No you cannot change line on a bike that quickly, especially if its wet for example or on a bend for obvious reasons. Swerving on a bike is dangerous, especially if there was loose gravel on the road. I don't hack but when I used to, since I come from a motorbike-owning family I was told very early on to move onto the verge should they need to do a poo, then its off the road. Pretty simple and nicer for everyone concerned anyway. Obviously not always possible but at least try to do it at the side of the road and not right down the middle.

With regards to stuff like cow crap on the road and mud from tractors - I actually believe its illegal to leave lots of it on the road for the very reason motorbikes / cars could slide in it. My local farmer carries a broom about with him and brushes the worst of it off the road (on the exits from fields normally), it doesn't normally go far down the road.
 
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Thanks for all your replies, which were pretty much the same as what I made to said person. But I can only reply as a car driver, not a motorcyclist, so thought i'd ask here. I know as a driver, I don't take bends any faster than what I can see, even if that means down the back lanes, doing 15 in 60 zone. It sounds slow, but I saw my daughters car after it hit a tree at 40 (again in a 60). That was a combination of excess speed ona wet road and inexperience. I did make the point about there being the possibilty of any hazard, but was shot down as being sterotypical. I was then a bit annoyed about then being told that i should pay for farm rides every time I wanted to ride out, as everyone who rides horses has loads of money! I'll link this thread to the fb conversation!
 
mperson01 said:
. I was then a bit annoyed about then being told that i should pay for farm rides every time I wanted to ride out, as everyone who rides horses has loads of money! I'll link this thread to the fb conversation!
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They're just being idiots. Kindly point out to them horses were on the roads far earlier than motorbikes. And I'm sure none of us would choose to ever ride on the road but we sadly dont all have off road hacking on our doorstep.
 
9tails said:
I ride a bike and can honestly say that I'm perfectly capable of missing any poo in the road. I don't ride particularly slowly but I do ride to the conditions of the road. Most horse poos are towards the kerbside and we really shouldn't be riding anywhere near the kerb, we're taught to ride in the middle of the carriageway just like a car would. I bet he was riding like a ****. A wet road after a long dry spell is particularly treacherous, you can see the oil sitting on the surface.
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Until you start advanced training, in which case, you are taught to use road positioning to give you better observations of the road ahead...but I know what you mean and even riding "the lines" as it were, a rider that can't see poo in time to avoid it is not going to be the best kind of rider to be using those lines, so again...would be riding outside of his/her limits.

I've made mistakes on the bike...I have pushed a bit too far beyond my abilities, but I have only done it with a clear road in front of me and no oncoming traffic...where I know the road and just want to improve on the last time I did it. There's nothing wrong with riding motorbike enthusiastically, so long as it is done safely!
 
I don't think riders realise that horse poo is a hazard to bikers, it's really slippery, particularly on a dark night when the rider is negotiating other traffic and hazards on the road. Split oil is worse but even so, it can be a problem to bikers.
Not sure what horse riders can do about it though, but its still good to be aware.
 
MerrySherryRider said:
I don't think riders realise that horse poo is a hazard to bikers, it's really slippery, particularly on a dark night when the rider is negotiating other traffic and hazards on the road. Split oil is worse but even so, it can be a problem to bikers.
Not sure what horse riders can do about it though, but its still good to be aware.
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Yes it absolutely is. I have certainly posted from the standpoint that as a rider, you HAVE to take your own safety into your own hands as, as much as we don't want to come across horse poo, mud, leaves, diesel spills etc on the road, we can't control them. What we can control are the choices we make to punch it down a gear, break ahead of the corner (engine breaking where possible) so that we are going in at a speed that allows us wiggle room for the unexpected. The scary thing about the OP's friend is that he is defending his brother, potentially at the cost of his brothers own future safety. When Dan hit diesel and came off at 85mph...he was fine, but the 15+ riders that saw it all told him that he could have handled it better, he didn't actually do any wrong, just made the wrong choice in terms of direction to avoid the diesel. He was grateful for the feedback and learned from it.

When I've done something a little unwise on a bike, Dan and my other very experienced biking friends have not held back in telling me and teaching me how to do it properly.

If all the OP's friend does is placate his brother, he will learn nothing. Next time it could be diesel, leading him into a tree or a truck. I have lost too many friends on bikes to not take this really very seriously.
 
This question is one that has filled my days with many a good laugh. I get the point yes, but it's just a little silly really.
 
I trust you skipped all the posts before the flippant reply? Because it does seem a little dismissive directly after GG just mentioned losing friends on motorcycles.

Expecting riders to clear up poo seems a little silly to me, but the subject and the hazard doesn't, as a motorcyclist. I'm actually a bit ashamed to admit I hadn't thought to try and swing pony's bum onto the verge, but I certainly will now (try, at least, he doesn't have the best manners r.e. bathroom habits, another source of shame!).
 
Floxie said:
If it's round a blind bend you don't really stand much chance, no - theoretically you shouldn't be going so fast that you can't respond if there is a hazard around that bend, but that's not always reasonable and doesn't imply speeding. My gut feeling would be that either hitting the poo (hehe) or changing line quickly could have been his undoing.

So yeah, it is pretty dangerous, but you're taught in IAM training (and probs basic training too, but I'm too old to remember!) that hazards like that are part and parcel of country roads and as a motorcyclist it's up to you to ride carefully. I wouldn't dream of expecting farmers to wash tractor mud off the road and that's a far bigger hazard.
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I must point out that farmers do have to remove their mud from the roads .
 
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