Horse presenting strange symptoms almost narcoleptic-any ideas?

[SaharaS]

First of all, I feel i should say I keep mine alone in a yard by my self, so am hoping 'HHO rent-a-yard/big sister' is ready for a strange one!

You'll all know what I mean by 'knowing' your horse, in that you could sense somethings not right when to someone else all is apparently fine...well its one of those, but this morning, even my not very horsey Mum, who is visiting even picked up on how my 4yr old tb was 'aged' her quote exactly was 'sedated 48yr old donkey' rather than his usual wildly up for everything madly exciteable 4yr old self.

Please bare in mind also I have had a horse go thru a colic op for impaction & twist, she survived 6 years but with 8 colics a year minimum..so I'm very quick to spot colic...(if not you could say paranoid)...I've lost one 3yr old filly to grass sickness and an8yr old tb to Equine Atypical Myopathy...so what I'm trying to say is yes paranoid,with good reason,but also I am open to reading the signs & spotting things a bit keenly.

So skip back a month, my tb started going out not just with his mum, but also with his aunt, my 26yr old tb mare..alpha mare, but fair, kind & great to teach manners,so as the month has progressed,I've noticed a massively amazing change in him, which I'm still hoping to put down to her 'boot camp' but the last three days he's been far from his cheeky self and almost too quiet.

Last night I was unnsure if he was presenting colic signs...so was he to be fair..his colic experience has only been pre gelding, when he got a bit too worked up when he realised what his 'apendage' was for and had so much fun that he coliced..he simply lay down & nodded off occasionally jerking head up & poking nose into belly then going quiet again...so not your typical signs, but he did this twice while we waited to have the snip- vets even remarked how subtle he was.

Anyway... last night, he ate up his supper, but had come in very lethargic & exhausted looking..had stood by gate nodding off & was a job to get him in...he usually canters in jumping the puddles & stands waiting for me to catch up ..instead of diving into his hay after his supper, he had a bit of a grumpy tummy, tiny dark dropping, moist but very firm, ok gut sounds one side but not alot the other.He wasn't interested in hay. I walked him out, grumping at contact with tummy stopped, eye mucous membrane came back to a happy shade rather than a worrying bright pink..he still wouldn't eat his hay & literally went into sedated trance stuper mode the second I got him back in..swaying & nodding hard to keep head up..rested it on my shoulder & nearly nailed me into the ground he was so relaxed leaning on it - normally I'd have lost an earring at least & some hair!I checked them again at midnight and he'd poo'd (still tiny foal sized not 15.2hh poos) but was chomping (albeit slowly) on his hay..every chew was an obvious effort but he seemed happy.

I did them earlier this am and he dived into his breakfast but again turned into sid the snail(on dope) the second i tried to walk him out...rather than unbacked tb he'd turned into leadrein superstar. When we eventually got to the third field, he just stood there waiting to come in(yes there is grass-the 2 mares shot off to eat it-not too much but not struggling to graze) he called for my other gelding really worriedly(not usual as gelding is mean to him) so I quickly turned him out, but it made on ods, he still stood there still& solemn in the muddy gateway in the shade...usually he bronchs off jumping the springs & any nettles and does a loop de loop of the hill field...so this is NOT him at all. He then walked one heavy hoof at a time to the others(about half hour of standing later) and gradually mooched a bit and thought about eating a little grass.(usually is hoover mode grazing while trying to canter to th point of kicking himself in the chops!)

I'd already decided he wasn't right so called to speak to vet. She said another horse in area had similar symptoms over weekend and he picked up on bute but had just taken his bloods as the second the bute wore off, he dropped again. So he had 2 bute and only 4 hours on did he seem a bit brighter...still snail like, but a bit more his cheeky self. Ate up this eve as expected & attacked his hay slowly, managed a cheeky face, but is still slow motion. next step is see how he is in the morning, but knowing how he's been, I'm pretty much sure he'll drop back again after the bute wears off as he really isn't himself. Any ideas?similar experiences? are you the other lady with the same symptoms in her horse?? OFcourse I worry about Swamp fever as that was showing as depression/lethargy on one doc I read..his vital signs were all over the shop membrane wise..this afternoon they were yellowy pink, white this am & reddy pink last night..he is a sod for letting you look tho.


So to briefly summise...I'm not a troll.nor a bored teen/aliens net member...I do ramble tho.. As for the boy...teeth done, wormed, just right condition wise, fed according to work(growing youngster) on a basis of as much as he needs but as little as I can-ie he's not stuffed to the hilt for the hec of it. all are fed little & often usually 3 feeds minimum.Feet fine & good, is barefoot, not lame, sound, all limbs seem ok, not visible scuffs/punch up marks etc Not rugged as he's a tough cookie & is in at night, light sheet on if bad rain in day.... no need for saddle fitter/back lady to start saddle bags at ten paces as he's not yet backed.!;-) They all get adlib hay.Other mares are also 'showing worried' signs towards him, so not just me.His mum was in season 2 days ago, but he doesn't cover her..oh and we have springs in the field which is next to a river.. so the wet bits are unavoidable & not easily inspectable as they appear randomly as they fancy..wondered if it could be poisoning at all?
Laduree macaroons for all who've read this far..hot choc fudge pud for any helpful replies! ..

 

[lhotse]

Temperature normal? To be honest, I think I'd be getting some bloods done to see if that can shed light on anything, Maybe a viral infection.

 

[kimky]

prior to my horse having a colic op she showed odd signs very similar to your horse. To get her to surgery to find there was a lot of problems with her liver. I would strongly advices to get some bloods and ask the vet to specifically check the liver. Sounds like it could be the problem best of luck x

 

[SaharaS]

Yes temp was fine, but was worried I'd been able to take it without a trip to a&e..he's got an inherrant mistrust of anything near his bottom since he parted company with his balls so is usually a 2 girl task (he's not a lover of men either!)

Thank you Kimky...seriously hoping for a simple viral infectionrather than anything colic or liver related..tho you'll know why from my op..is your horse ok now?hope so..how long did it go on before the colic and how long did you think it had been brewing?....am wondering if he had eaten something i field or even the haylage(dry wrapped)...paniced a bit over swamp fever & all the rest so might as well panic over everything elsexx

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

You're describing the signs of a horse with impaction colic who is in pain. I would get the vet, since the bute and walking hasn't worked. It sounds as if his gut is slow moving rather than completely blocked. Hopefully there is nothing serious causing the colic and he recovers soon.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Does he have a temperature?

If nothing obvious i would gets bloods done

 

[Murphy88]

Have to say my first thought would be mild colic, probably due to an impaction. I would suggest a vet visit to do a colic exam and rectal, and if nothing showed up then proceed to bloods etc. I can think of several cases recently where I have gone out to see horses that were just 'off' that have turned out to have colic, and I will often rectal a horse with these signs as part of my work up.

 

[natalia]

I've just been through this with my 4yr old! Rather than being spooky, sharp occasionally bronking creature he turned in to dope on a rope you have to really kick to get going and stood like a rock to rug up. Called the vet and he has abnormal bloods. Not sure exactly what it is yet, but he's just run another test to find out if viral, bacterial ect. He's had a week of bute twice a day and antibiotics and is much sharper, but still not quite right so waiting for the next step now.

 

[Fimbacob]

Sounds a little like grass sickness to me. I hope

 

[Fimbacob]

Sounds a little like grass sickness to me. I hope its nothing too serious and your horse feels better soon. Xx

 

[SaharaS]

You're describing the signs of a horse with impaction colic who is in pain. I would get the vet, since the bute and walking hasn't worked. It sounds as if his gut is slow moving rather than completely blocked. Hopefully there is nothing serious causing the colic and he recovers soon.

thank you for reply...I get what you mean totally ..tho will try explain better(sorry think you might have miss read my epic easily done as was long even by my standards..) I hope this doesn't sound rude as it isn't meant to

...the walking worked, he had poo'd, before & a bit after then alot by the time when I did the midnight check,and was eating up hay..but then as he was sleepy still next daybut eating & pooing,I called the vet, she said to give bute which DID work with him -we were waiting to see what the OTHER horse she is treating with same symptoms does.(prob my fault not enough punctuation as I was venting, sorry!) he is having bloods today...He's pooing the normal amount just in tiny parcels..I'm leaning towards liver/virous issue in my mind, praying not another with colic/grass sickness or EAM as I've already lost 3 to these

 

[SaharaS]

Does he have a temperature?

If nothing obvious i would gets bloods done

..no temperature, vet for bloods booked this am...

Have to say my first thought would be mild colic, probably due to an impaction. I would suggest a vet visit to do a colic exam and rectal, and if nothing showed up then proceed to bloods etc. I can think of several cases recently where I have gone out to see horses that were just 'off' that have turned out to have colic, and I will often rectal a horse with these signs as part of my work up.

thank you..interesting to hear others are showing such subtle signs recently...I hope I didn't sound rude to Sugar&Spice above who said similar..its hard to describe on here tho(sure we all know that) vet coming to do bloods so will ask for rectal exam first...

I've just been through this with my 4yr old! Rather than being spooky, sharp occasionally bronking creature he turned in to dope on a rope you have to really kick to get going and stood like a rock to rug up. Called the vet and he has abnormal bloods. Not sure exactly what it is yet, but he's just run another test to find out if viral, bacterial ect. He's had a week of bute twice a day and antibiotics and is much sharper, but still not quite right so waiting for the next step now.

I wonder if you are the other lady my vet was talking about...otherwise there are quite a few doing this...please keep me posted as to what yours is..hope he's ok..mine picked up on Bute too ad is much sharper, but still the edge is not there..(quite nice if he's needing tlc as can be a tricky monkey when he's his usual self)

Sounds a little like grass sickness to me. I hope its nothing too serious and your horse feels better soon. Xx

I hope so too...its very similar to my little girl i lost - I said to mum yesterday, I thought he was shutting down.Lucy was eating & pooing away merrily but just wasn't right - her vet then said i was being neurotic & call back when i had a serious emergency...a week later he was putting her down for GS:-( I'm asking vet for the eyedrop test too..such a flipping worry I tell you!

 

[Fimbacob]

I will keep my fingers crossed for you both. Be pushy to the point of obnoxious to make sure the vet does all the tests you want done and dont let them tell you youre being neurotic! Shame on that vet! If there are other horses presenting the same symptoms, it does indicate something that is contagious. Let us know how it goes.((hugs))

 

[pootleperkin]

With EGS, more likely to have a temp and be very depressed, not eating and runny nose, so fortunately not sounding like a classical presentation of that. ..... Fingers crossed x

 

[SaharaS]

I will keep my fingers crossed for you both. Be pushy to the point of obnoxious to make sure the vet does all the tests you want done and dont let them tell you youre being neurotic! Shame on that vet! If there are other horses presenting the same symptoms, it does indicate something that is contagious. Let us know how it goes.((hugs))

Thank you...this vet is a million miles from the other, thankfully (in miles & skill/tact!) the bad ex vet (ex as in one that needs a barge pole for me to even think of contemplating) also demanded a full £6k upfront on a bank holiday fri before he put the knife in, to save my filly from colic...she was insured & I had a pristine payment record. Three vets threatened to walk if he didn't operate. Luckily the lady at my building society faxed him a copy of my balance & printed a cheque out from my account which she drove over to the practice for me(lucky she was mum of a horsey girl!...and lucky I had enough cash that week!)anyway thats the same ar&ey vet that (partner of a Sussex practice) that told me he was quote "too busy watching the rugby, call back when you've got a really emergency"...when Lucy had grass sickness...the only signs she presented were a tremor in her n/s front leg muscles & shoulder on the sun afternoon (got her in after a thunderstorm), poos were small dark & harder than i would have liked, and the eye lash test..everything else was fine to anyone who didn't know her, but she was obviously 'not right' to me.On the friday we sadly said sweet dreams:-( that was a diff yard 120 miles from where i am now...but only the field across from where Blue was grazing when I lost him to EAM...hence the worrying.

Anyway...nice specialist vet out this am, took bloods, listened to gut sounds & was happy with everything in that respect, tho didn't do a rectal as was certain not impacted (lets hope so) I kept a dropping sample back to show him as well.Eyes & lips were a good colour again, heart fine etc etc..tho he could see he wasn't right. He suggested mild grumbly grass colic was a possibility, but was happy with him now.I'd put him in school this am for a 'rousting up session' but only succeeded in getting horse & self soggy, which made us both more tortoise like. I will know in morning and he was happily munching when i came home for lunch, tho is still a bit soul less for his usual munchkin antics...keeping close eye on the others..they do seem to be clingey but all I've noticed so far is that two (him & eldest mare) are doing smaller droppings...other than that, not alot to go on...thank you for support, will post when bloods back...xx

With EGS, more likely to have a temp and be very depressed, not eating and runny nose, so fortunately not sounding like a classical presentation of that. ..... Fingers crossed x

I'd be very happy with it being a common lazy horse slightly under the weather if at all possible, believe me!As above, Lucy was uber subtle with her EGS but 'commonly' signs should be as you say...so here's hoping.

Vet, looking slightly scared,did point out, I've already lost 2 to very rare medical senarios, lost another after a very drawn out rare colic senario(twist & impaction in two separate places in gut, which they don't normally survive both...and then while recouperating cope with 10 days in intensive scare having another mass in the gut burnt out that he was unable to operate on{bad batch of feed that wiped out a scottish stud of 17 mares & foals as well as my filly getting ill} ) and currently have one being treated for something that vets thought died out 150 years ago & that is commonly only found in heavy's not tbs...so suggested i leave them with a basic common vet manual so they have limited access to weird & wonderful things to get & might chose something dull & mundane next time!Gimme a break please horses!(and not one involving any horse dog or human bones PLEASE!) If I ever win the lotto (if can afford to play again after this!!) I'm donating some to EAM & EGS & AHS research to name but a few.Flipping things...everything crossed!x

 

[tiggs]

I'll keep everything crossed for you, hope you get some results from the blood tests

 

[Jingleballs]

You're describing the signs of a horse with impaction colic who is in pain. I would get the vet, since the bute and walking hasn't worked. It sounds as if his gut is slow moving rather than completely blocked. Hopefully there is nothing serious causing the colic and he recovers soon.

^^^ This - my boy had these signs when he had impaction colic - still producing droppings but much smaller and harder than usual, very lethargic and not interested in food.

The vet (who was beyond useless) insisted that he had a virus and did a belly tap but we pushed for a rectal exam and they found a pretty severe pelvic infracture.

 

[Fools Motto]

Didn't want to read and run;
Nothing really useful to add - Sorry to hear that your youngster is under the weather. I've got my fingers and toes crossed for a very positive outcome and a quick recovery back to his normal bouncing self!

Oh, actually, we do have one colt weanling at the mo who is 'under the weather'.. also waiting bloods back for him. All he has done is going from being a little strong monkey to lead out, to an old donkey having to be dragged out. He has been 'cow paddy' in his stable too. Owner has given him some powder in his feed - name escapes me as the mo! Thats all I can offer, equally not very useful!

Hugs x

 

[LaurenBay]

I would also say colic.

Very recently (as in 3 weeks- a month ago) a Horse at my yard went down with colic. The owner had been saying she had noticed a difference in her Horses temprament prior to this (for a few days) the Horse is an ex racer and whilst she doesn't have a bad bone in her body, she can be very spirited when turning out and bringing in. Her owner described her as being a "Dope on a rope". On the night she coliced, I was there to witness it. I have never seen anything like it, the Horse was running into walls, thrashing around etc... vet came and advised PTS. Owner decided to take Horse to Rossdales and luckily she pulled through without a need for surgery. The owner did notice the difference, but since the Horse was still pooing, she didn't link it with colic at all and thought it was perhaps a viral thing.

The mare is back home now and doing well, owner knows what to look out for now.

 

[SaharaS]

^^^ This - my boy had these signs when he had impaction colic - still producing droppings but much smaller and harder than usual, very lethargic and not interested in food.

The vet (who was beyond useless) insisted that he had a virus and did a belly tap but we pushed for a rectal exam and they found a pretty severe pelvic infracture.

Was he ok in the end?and did they have to operate? I'm sorry you had to go thru that(&horse too) vet was sure it would show in the bloods so will know tomorrow..tho good news, we had a nice big dropping back to his usual size this eve..he said if it was colic, would possibly be a grass colic. The positive difference between yours & mine tho is mine is still hoovering his feed and only had one eve(sat) off his hay tho he did eat it eventually thru the night...that would be the longest his hay has ever lasted for certain!HOpe your boy was ok x

Didn't want to read and run;
Nothing really useful to add - Sorry to hear that your youngster is under the weather. I've got my fingers and toes crossed for a very positive outcome and a quick recovery back to his normal bouncing self!

Oh, actually, we do have one colt weanling at the mo who is 'under the weather'.. also waiting bloods back for him. All he has done is going from being a little strong monkey to lead out, to an old donkey having to be dragged out. He has been 'cow paddy' in his stable too. Owner has given him some powder in his feed - name escapes me as the mo! Thats all I can offer, equally not very useful!

Hugs x

Thank you ...please let me know how he gets on..its interesting to know, evn if its different..you can never know enough!xx (you'll see above am proud owner of huge youngster poo this eve! very proud mum...)

I would also say colic.

Very recently (as in 3 weeks- a month ago) a Horse at my yard went down with colic. The owner had been saying she had noticed a difference in her Horses temprament prior to this (for a few days) the Horse is an ex racer and whilst she doesn't have a bad bone in her body, she can be very spirited when turning out and bringing in. Her owner described her as being a "Dope on a rope". On the night she coliced, I was there to witness it. I have never seen anything like it, the Horse was running into walls, thrashing around etc... vet came and advised PTS. Owner decided to take Horse to Rossdales and luckily she pulled through without a need for surgery. The owner did notice the difference, but since the Horse was still pooing, she didn't link it with colic at all and thought it was perhaps a viral thing.

The mare is back home now and doing well, owner knows what to look out for now.

Glad she was ok in the end..yes can be very scary when they do that..and when they can colic while pretending to be fine dropping wise..proves it occasionally pays to be as neurotic as me!tho I prefer to call it observant I swear they are all trying to turn me grey..my filly Mai mentioned earlier in the thread went for three days 'not being right' but she was so subtle it was untrue-hence the silly vet remarks..I'll always be incredibly grateful for the lady vets quick actions..as she was parked infront of my trailer at the time, she literally took one look over the door at her & ran back to her car, reversed it back & hitched up immediately (and I had my own car & tow bar there!)thats the difference between a vet that trusts an owners judgement and the three who I'd called out over the 3 preceding days...just wish she'd been on call the first time and we could have escaped an op...

Roll on morning and some sensible blood results and lots of nice big juicy poos too please!

 

[SaharaS]

Test results just back..he had/s an infection tho without further tests its hard to know..so trying the weeks antibiotics first. Vet said unclear if it was gut/brain or something simple like an abcess(tho not showing lame or pus in footy at all) or if it was separate to or causing the colic.) so now I'm going to worry that he mentioned brain as well as gut rather than 'an infection'. He did mention tho that one of his liver counts was high & indicated that he hadn't been eating, which I find a surprise as hes never lost is appetite for feeds thru this at all..only the sat eve was he slow to take his hay (4 -6 hours ish as he was nodding off immediately after feed...)and I haven't been stood over him in the field all day ofcourse -we started a new bale of dry haylage on fri which he tucked into and the grass in the field is not lush but isn't so scarce they would be struggling as its a big field & differing terrain & exposure so they tend to mooch around and graze areas down then move onto another bit..but nothing has got over grazed so is still green, if pale(but I know goodness dropping off).
So we have to wait & see & hope the antibiotics are able to do the trick & its nothing sinister lurking...once again fingers crossed.....(and my house needs to hurry up & sell!)

 

[Fimbacob]

That sounds like good news to me! Hurrah! Vets ime tend to prepare you for the worst just incase so dont worry too much about the brain thing. Hope you had big juicy droppings in his stable this morning!x