Horse riding and 'talent'

slumdog

slumdog

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Right, me and oh had this conversation so thought I'd bring it on here to see what you thought.

With any other sport you have to have some degree of talent, take football for example. With football you can learn to play and you can improve, but it takes some degree of natural talent, running or hand/eye co-ordination for example.

Now horse riding, because its a sport with an animal who thinks for itself (the physical element is down to the horse) do you think there is a degree of natural talent involved for the rider or do you think success is all 'learnt' talent, good basic training, lessons, background etc. Can you 'learn' to be a talented rider? If you think riders are naturally talented what talent do you think they actually have? Do you think that the top riders of the world would be as successful and talented as they are if that had different backgrounds?

Just bored while oh watches top gear and wondered what you thought. Hope that makes sense!
 
I suspect it depends on what area of the sport you're looking at. If you think you can get on a four star horse and it will carry you round Badminton you almost certainly will be killed!
There was that TV programme with Carl Hester and some woman (can't remember her name) but she could 'ride' - he gave her a lesson on one of his dressage horses and she had a nasty fall as she couldn't find where the buttons were to stop!

Lots of footballers 'learn' their skill - Beckham's parents made him play constantly when he was a kid, same for tiger woods and the williams sisters - if you practice something hours a day from age 3 is it learned or natural?

I do disagree that the physical element is down to the horse - if it isn't a partnership and you aren't helping each other - you probably won't be sucessful in any horsey field.

If I won the lottery bought loads of the top horses and had consitant lessons from top instructors for several years I'd hope I could get some good results at the top level - but I'd still say it was a combination of my (small) natural talent and several million £'s of learned talent

Also bored watching top gear!!!!!
 
Good question!, there are so many factors that come into play and it is a really interesting subject. In my opinion talent, money and dedication seem to be required in equal measure, without money you would struggle to find the horse power training and equipment required, but then are talented riders talented because they are dedicated and strive to improve themselves?
 
Polos Mum said:
When I say physical element I mean that literally, every horse has a limit and no amount of riding can make a slow racehorse fast (mine lol) or a horse that just can't jump, jump. But when it comes down to the rider getting the best out of the horse that's where talent comes in. I also think that people confuse experienced and professional with talented, not always the same thing lol!

I'm off to google that Carl Hestor programme now lol
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Polos Mum said:
I suspect it depends on what area of the sport you're looking at. If you think you can get on a four star horse and it will carry you round Badminton you almost certainly will be killed!
There was that TV programme with Carl Hester and some woman (can't remember her name) but she could 'ride' - he gave her a lesson on one of his dressage horses and she had a nasty fall as she couldn't find where the buttons were to stop!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrR-mBbNcm4
 
Yes I think talent has a lot to do with it especially in dressage when it comes to an ability to 'feel' and be in tune (not everyone can do that well), but also things like good judgement, patience for training, even temperament (well, it would help) cool under pressure, etc, and also I should think your physical stature has an impact. Sure you get riders tall, short, larger and thinner etc but they all need to be able to balance etc and some people just can't. My mum is an extreme example in that she literally does not even have the balance to ride a bike!
 
Thanks ffionwinnie - that's the one I was thinking of!

I think it's a useful example of when people tell me dressage is the easy sport as you 'just sit there'! I don't know the horse but I'm assuming it wasn't one of Carl's most tricky ones!
 
I had this discussion with someone on Twitter during the Olympics! She seemed to feel that a kid taking council-subsidised riding lessons in Hackney had just as much chance of getting to the Olympics as Zara Phillips.

I think some amount of natural talent - balance, co-ordination, sensitivity, strength, pigheaded determination, focus - is necessary to be a top-flight rider. I also think a lot of those aspects can be trained in, if you're having lessons with the absolute best instructors and horses from before you can walk.

If you're having an hour a week on a riding school pony, it's very unlikely that your natural talent will have the opportunity to develop.
 
aHHHH this clip didn't show her comming off it just cuts to them being inside. When it was on TV there was a good few seconds of her cantering round and round faster and faster which him saying 'just relax' and 'take your leg off' and the horse going faster and faster until he ducked round a corner and she did not !
 
It requires natural talent same as any other sport. But, because its not as accessible & is more expensive, even at a grass roots level, only a small % of people with natural talent ever get the chance to fulfill their natural potential. I don't mean all top riders have to be loaded. But if a child is born with a natural talent for a cheaper (& therefore more common sport) like football, swimming, hockey etc, its something that they will get to try whatever their background, & there's the chance that talent can be spotted. Riding isn't like that. And because its more expensive, even a child who has had the chance to discover a talent won't get chance to fulfil it without support.
 
I think that natural talent definitely does come into it but I think bucket loads of determination can however make up for it. Just because you are naturally talented doesn't mean you will go any further if you dont have the determination. If you have both then I think you are off the the best start! I think there are loads of influencing factors when it comes down to making it to the top though... good horses and plenty of money are 2 that spring to mind! It doesn't matter how much "talent" you have if you cant get lessons from top instructors or get out competing.

Nicky Chapman looks completely out of her depth from the word go! I guess this is another example of just because you can "ride" doesn't mean you can ride top class horses!! Probably why a lot of novices end up over horsed!
 
Always lived by the saying "money can't buy you talent"

Some people can spend thousands on lessons and will never really get passed a certain level.

Whereas naturally talented people can progress quickly and sometimes with minimal training.

You can buy the best of everything but you still need the talent of keeping the horse between you and the floor :D
 
RCP Equestrian said:
Always lived by the saying "money can't buy you talent"

Some people can spend thousands on lessons and will never really get passed a certain level.

Whereas naturally talented people can progress quickly and sometimes with minimal training.

You can buy the best of everything but you still need the talent of keeping the horse between you and the floor :D
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^^ This. There is imo as with any other sport a ceiling for the talent of the rider - some riders are lucky enough to have the 'sky' as their limit, some others I know actually should not be on a horse's back at all sadly .
 
A week ago, I would have agreed that our top sports people required at least some modicum of talent.

However I am 3/4 of the way through Matthew Syed's book Bounce and, following the many studies that he cites, no longer believe in talent at all. Top results are obtained after many 1000's of hours of practice. That's all.

It was another thread on the Competing & Training section that recommended the book and it is a bit dry, but fascinating.
 
Littlelegs said:
But, because its not as accessible & is more expensive, even at a grass roots level, only a small % of people with natural talent ever get the chance to fulfill their natural potential.
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Agree with this. There are plenty of talented riders sitting on the sidelines or battling round novice classes with poor horsepower.

At the top level, you definately need talent. At the lower levels of affiliation, you need parents or a partner or a well paid job! And plenty of free time!

Even in other sports though, a lot of it is about how early you started and developed basic motor skills. In athletics, there are a lot of examples of children of top athletes also doing well - and it can't all be down to athletics but must also be down to nurture and doing sport early from a young age.

Maybe its more a question of lack of talent - some people will never do very well in any sport if they lack talent, or the talent to develop the skills needed.
 
Talent. I've watched riders who have excellent horses and the resources to access exceptional trainers and yet they will never progress beyond competent.

In comparison, sometimes, I 've seen a youngster riding with such natural empathy and intuition that if they had those same resources - and the necessary drive and determination, they could be very gifted riders.

Horse's themselves, do respond to talented and intuitive riders even when they don't have the technical skills to match.
 
One of the best trainers in world once told me , three things define sucess in horse sport talent , dedication , money . If you have two of the three you can succeed if you have all three you have a huge head start.
I think this is spot on.
However the great thing about horses is that they can be enjoyed in so many ways by lots of different types of people doing all sorts of different things.
It's just too narrow with horses to only consider the type of talent that the top competitor has.
 
horserider said:
Horse's themselves, do respond to talented and intuitive riders even when they don't have the technical skills to match.
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I think the same debate can be had for horses themselves. There are plenty of very scopy horses that don't have the heart for competing and so don't get very far (on paper and to look at you'd think they would be world beaters) and also plenty of slightly oddly put together heinz 57 horses that really have the will to do well (especially in eventing!)

I saw Milton (showing my age now!) when he was on rest, unclipped etc. (all be it he was a little old then) but he looked like 100's of random little horses we all drive past every day and wouldn't give a second look to!
 
Havent read any replies so dont know what folk have said :)

I believe you do, you also have to have the right attitude towards it all as well ans I believe a certain tenacity as horse will and do test you and some people just cant handle this side of it.

If given the right horse anyone can compete but to be truly good at something natural talent has to come into it. Same with horses, any horse can compete but it the talented ones that do it well :)
 
There is certainly one well-known Olympic dressage rider (not from 2012) who bought their way to the top after an inheritance. I'm not saying that person had no talent but certainly wouldn't have made it to the top without the money, the yard and horses that it bought.
 
To merely do "a bit of riding" doesn't require any talent at all, no more than kicking any ball does but ..... using the ball analogy ... if you wish to progress to keepy-uppey with a football or bosh some tennis - you'll need not only practice but also the wherewithal to deduce what you did good from bad - this is skill and not everyone has it.

You meet this kind of thing in many other walks of life too - some folk are very good communicators, can teach - some can sell more double glazing than their peers - it's all a talent not to mention composing music or making sense out of Chaos Theory.

While you can be perfectly competent with horses to get the balance and learn an amount of classic dressage to control a good one - to excel and make the top ten - you need bags of talent and put in what to most ordinary folk would be mind numbing practice sessions - so the prime requirement for a Number One would be Percy Veerance!
 
Great thoughts on this! Just need to win the lottery now lol! Regardless of natural talent I agree you get out what you put in, and the hours and hours of practise they must do certainly helps. I've been to the performance sales in Caven and Goresbridge and some of the tiny kids that ride there are just amazing!

Makes you wonder though that there must be potential world class horses sat in the field doing nothing and potential world class riders who just can't afford to get anywhere. Isn't it Mary King from a non horsey background?
 
Riding is the same as anything else in life. People start with varying degrees of natural talent. Occasionally a child sits on a horse for the first time and you know they could be very very good (they are often good at other sports as well - gymnastics, skiing, cycling). I say could be good because the talent has to be applied and that takes a lot of hard work, dedication and sacrifice.
Talent can be found in people with non horsey backgrounds, its just less likely that it will get the chance to be seen and they won't have the same support structure to develop it. And then there's the horse.....
 
I am not sure about 'talent' as such, I think a lot of that can be taught.

What I think can't be taught is desire and having a certain type of resilience - the type of person who doesn't get put off by a a bad fall and who can be quite tough on horses that don't make the grade.

Although sports phycologists can help to a degree, I am not sure that the 'grittiness' needed to get to the top can be bought?
 
canteron said:
I am not sure about 'talent' as such, I think a lot of that can be taught.
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You'd like to think so eh. Well I have let at least two self made multi-millionaires have a go on my digger - this of course is a MACHINE! it does exactly the same thing every time you pull or push a lever - but the phrase - "pig with a shovel" comes to mind. And despite knowing how to make millions - many other people seem to be far better at keeping them than me!

What I think can't be taught is desire and having a certain type of resilience - the type of person who doesn't get put off by a a bad fall and who can be quite tough on horses that don't make the grade.
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I once had a long chat to a WW2 fighter pilot - he's not long died so just to survive this long is quite something as the accident rate these guys had was quite enough without the flying bullets! He said in all humility that he never did fear the enemy - only Isaac Newton ( think gravity! ) and that the first time he'd sat in a Spitfire with the engine revving - he'd idly thought of the guy he would kill - the idea that it could be the other way about never entered his mind! The first thing he did on landing was slide back the canopy and throw up - apparantly, very common because of the intense concentration and stress.
 
1stclassalan said:
You'd like to think so eh. Well I have let at least two self made multi-millionaires have a go on my digger - this of course is a MACHINE! it does exactly the same thing every time you pull or push a lever - but the phrase - "pig with a shovel" comes to mind. And despite knowing how to make millions - many other people seem to be far better at keeping them than me!
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Ah, it does depend on the talent or skill (depending on which side of the argument you are on) of the instructor?!
 
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