Horse sensitive to hoof pick?

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spotty_pony

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As title. I have posted before about my boy possibly showing signs of Shivers however after having the vet out to have a closer look she didn't seem to think it was much to worry about - she picked his back legs up high like a Farrier would and although he waved them around a little bit, he wasn't too bad and she said it was nothing to worry about. Since he have lost our grazing due to the bad weather, he has become a lot stiffer. He goes on the horse walker everyday for a leg stretch but if he hasn't been out of his stable and stretched his legs, at the moment I am finding it almost impossible to pick out his hind feet. :( Two days running he has kicked me in the hand due to what seems to be involuntary, jerky actions - which seem to be made worse when I actually make any contact with the hoof pick. I am confused as to what to do as I don't want to tell him off for kicking out - as I am pretty sure he can't help it and it is only a recent thing he has started doing. (I've owned him for seven years)

Just wondering whether they could be a bruised or whether it is a sign that he has thin soles possibly? Or would this sort of reaction still point in the direction of Shivers/some kind of neurological or nerve problem? He is sound and is currently hunting 2-3 times per month and it doesn't seem to be affecting his performance.

Anyone else experienced this as I can't say I have ever experienced anything quite like this myself with any other horse. I think I am going to have to get a second opinion from another vet, but if exercise seems to lessen it then I am going to have to find some alternative turnout arrangements for him.

Sorry for the long post! Any advice much appreciated - is there a resident vet on HHO by any chance?!
 
If he is sensitive to you picking his feet out, he could have thrush, it can make them very sore. Is there any smell at all when you pick his feet up, like sweaty feet? I he is sore, he won't want to stand on one foot while you pick out the other.
My horse has behaved like this before and at one point he couldn't lift his back legs for me to pick them out. He also snatches them up high before relaxing them down and somethimes waives them about, and also does like an involuntary kick. He sometimes quivers the leg he's holding up.
So this could be two problems?
 
If he is fit and hunting regularly standing in for a long time could just be making him stiff, going on a walker is not proper exercise in my view, he should be ridden each day as well to prevent him getting stiff as well as keeping him fit enough to hunt.

I would ask for a referral to a good physio, he may just need some muscles stretching and a good session may relax him and release any tension, his hamstrings could be tight which can cause snatching.

His reaction to the hoofpick may be due to thrush, something that is easy to find, it would be worth treating him as if he has it getting his feet in good condition and the frogs really healthy.
 
muff747 - No it isn't thrush. There is no smell or anything in his feet at all, they are dry and clean inside. His bed is always kept immaculate as I am a bit anal about it! :o Your horse's symptoms do sound very similar to mine though so yes, there might be another problem there.

be positive - I meant to say, the horse walker doesn't compensate his daily work, he is also hacked out/schooled 5-6 times per week so he is getting plenty of exercise. The walker is just an additional extra.

legendary frazzle - He had his back looked out in October so not that long ago although I may consider getting my Chiropractor out again to have a look. His conformation behind is very upright and he is slightly croup high so I don't think this helps the problem.
 
We've got a horse with Shivers at our yard. He's also had very sore feet so he's been lifting his legs more than usual. Poor chap was almost hopping from foot to foot at one point. I Have been reading up on it because we were concerned about the level of care he was(wasn't) getting. I believe that if you make then back up a few steps it will trigger the leg lifting response if they've got shivers. Might be worth trying if the vet hasn't already done it.
 
Yes, he has always been very upright behind - he is slightly croup high and his hind legs are very straight and so his hind leg action is quite choppy.

With the Farrier, he can be a bit funny to shoe behind (another symptom of Shivers) but my Farrier is aware of this and is very patient with him. If he has been in and not been exercised before he is shod he is usually worse as he is stiffer.

He is actually very good at rein back - it doesn't cause him to 'shiver' anyway and he is happy to back up both in the stable and when ridden.

I lunged him today for the first time in ages so that I could get a proper look at how he is moving. He was very stiff behind to start with and flexion behind was very limited but as he warmed up, he began to move better. I waited and picked his feet out after exercise (I hated doing that) but he is obviously not comfortable having them picked out when he is still stiff - and as as predicted he was fine with his hind feet after exercise.

I have stopped feeding the Barleys Rings at the moment as Barley can be known to make Shivers worse so I have upped the Alfa A Oil instead for now and will see if there is any improvement.

I have a vet coming out next week to sedate him for clipping so I might ask her for a second opinion to put my mind at rest more than anything!
 
We have one who had a sore back which first farrier fought when she kicked out and pulled her hoof higher with her then almost killing him.
Decent farrier (family) lifted and simply held a few inches lower when she protested and she was absolutely fine with it, so was nothing to do with feet at all. She is very quick to connect with jumper on in summer meaning hidden wormer etc, so hoofpick connected to pain I should imagine wouldn't take long.
 
Hum...check for mud fever, just a thought.
Don't want to start making assumptions but know of these symptoms, if he continues to be stiff etc behind, snatches back legs when you are lifting feet then please get him investigated by the vet.
 
Can you post some pics of his feet?

I would put most of it down to being stood in all day. This is going to lead to massive stiffening in the joints, and meaning that his feet are getting even less circulation than shod feed normally do, due to the lack of movement.

I would suggest a proper ACPAT qualified physio rather than a bone cruncher too ;)
 
Hold on, I think I've got some photos of his feet from the summer so will post them in a minute. I normally use a McTimoney Chiropractor if that's any different to a normal Chiropractor?
 
Is he the same when you pick his feet out after he's been on the walker?

Oh, just read he is fine after exercize. In that case I would always do his hooves after he's been on the walker/exercized until he can go out again. Good luck with further suggestions such as Chiro.
 
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If he is sore behind he is going to be reluctant to having his back feet picked up, from experience I really would get the vet.
 
Pics of his feet from the summer are no good! They werent a problem to him then, whereas now they are so we need upto date pics!

And re the chiro - id still want an ACPAT physio - not a mc timoney.
 
Right, I have included some photos of him from the Summer to show his conformation and then a few from Boxing Day meet last week. Will get some up to date photos of his feet. Might even try and get some footage of what happens when I pick his feet up too.

In the summer (showing his very upright hind leg conformation)
IMG_0660-1_zps075b2d17.jpg


Last week at Boxing Day meet:
DSCF0421_zps114bbf50.jpg


And another one from last week, just because he's cute!
DSCF0425_zps3358bc22.jpg
 
What about arthritis in his hocks?
My mare started snatching and kicked me when picking out her back hooves just before her arthritis diagnoses in her hocks. When she is sore she still snatches now, so I give her some have danilon for a few days. Normal it's when she had hooned around on the hard ground/its snowy/Icey....etc

She is stiff when worked until she is properly warmed up.
 
About four years ago, we first noticed slight stiffness and had the vet out who put it down to slight arthritic changes in the hocks so you could be correct. There are so many things it could be... i'm just playing a guessing game tbh. I am unsure as to what to do as with him being sound and generally well in himself I am reluctant to pay out thousands of pounds for tests if it is not necessary - although am more than willing to if needs be. Wonder if insurance would cover it? I've never made a claim before!
 
Yes insurance should cover it but would check if already has hock problems on record. Please get the vet, sounds like hock/suspensory area to me, as I say, I know from experience.
 
How old is he?
Insurance will prop pay for investigations if your vet doesnt put arthritis anywhere near the form but if it turns out to be arthritis in his hocks has gotten worse as you already have a diagnoses then they won't pay for treatment.

X-rays shouldn't cost too much, and then if you can't afford injections(my girl had them and they helped her) then a danilon when needed I.e when in or weather is damp/cold etc will help.
 
He is 13. Now I'm really worried :( if it was suspensory-related then wouldn't he be lame/wouldn't there have been heat and swelling at some point? Alternatively, could it be a trapped nerve maybe with the spasms that occur?
 
Not necessarily. If in both may not show up specifically lame in one or other, just maybe two tenths lame in both. Suspensories and hocks very close together anatomically. If he has hock problems may well be that. Am not trying to scare you but have experience of this from my last boy, symptoms very similar. As I say, please just get the vet, is worth it just to know, better safe than sorry. X
 
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Yes I will do, will see if they can do an examination when I get them out next week. Will I need to ask for an ultrasound scan? Or do I just explain the problem and let them decide what to do?
 
Your vet should know. Explain the symptoms, say due to previous you are worried it could be hock/suspensory area, they will have a look but to get proper diagnosis they will need to refer for further tests, nerve blocks etc etc. am not trying to scare you, hopefully is nothing, if just wee bit of arthritis in hocks that can be managed. Just is best to know Hun. Keep us posted. X
 
Vet will know whatvto do first.

Also say to vet about arthritis will not be covered as its already on his notes so ask for quotes for each test and then treatment if it is arthritis. I.e cost of flexion tests, nerve blocks, then X-rays on hocks, and then any treatment like the joint injections and adiqan.

Six years ago I think the lameness work up (including X-rays and nerve blocks)injections for my mare came to £1600.....I think memory is a little rusty.

Keep us posted.
 
Thanks and yes I will keep you updated. He is being sedated to be clipped next week so I will ask them to do an examination before they sedate him and then see where we go from there. Thank you for all of your advice. :)
 
My lameness work up with x rays, bone scans, nerve blocks etc was £3500 ish earlier on this year, but included two night stay.
 
My little mare started snatching her back feet when her hocks got bad.

I wouldn't be suprised if it was arthritus related, especially if he is better after working, because everything will loosen up. :)

Don't get too stressed, if it is that my girl could still do everything as she did before (she had steroid injections :))
 
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