Horse 'should never have been' in yard where worker died

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ridingsafely

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Nottingham - England - UK: Horse 'should never have been' in yard where worker died

A Horse that kicked a stable worker causing fatal head injuries should never have been allowed in the yard where she worked, an inquest has heard. Lucie Simpson, 20, was struck by the mare, called Treacle, just minutes after helping a vet take a blood sample from its foal at West Bridgford Equestrian Centre. The Coroner recorded a verdict of accidental death.
More details at:
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/homenews/Horse-yard-worker-died/article-474313-detail/article.html
(This is Nottingham – 14 November 2008)
Additional reporting at the opening of the inquest at:
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/homene...il/article.html
(This is Nottingham – 13 November 2008)
 
What an absolute disgrace, looks like that's one riding school (and I use the term loosely) which should be shut down immediately. Why was the horse on the yard at all around inexperienced staff (not wearing hats) and why would you breed from a horse with behavioural issues.
One instance where I hope the parents get a big payout.
 
Ditto siennamum, what a sad story and yes why was it in foal ?? maybe something we dont know but it seems there are too many people still knowingly breeding unsuitable horses WHY
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I'm still confused....where should the horse have been?

Tragic accident though.....and a bit daft of her to go in the stable with a mare and foal. And the reason you should always wear a hat around horses.
 
Its very tragic, but to say the horse should never have been there is stupid. If this horse had a history of kicking out, then no one should have been allowed near it without suitable safety gear.

The mare had a newborn foal and they can be pretty unpredictable. It sounds like she went back in to have a look, which is normal as foals are cute.

The fact that the family are taking civil action disgusts me, although I can understand the need to blame someone rather than accept that the poor girl may have been a victim of her own actions.
 
I have what I consider to be a dangerous mare and NOBODY is allowed near her after foaling bar my husband or myself. Quite honestly, she's the type of mare you get nurse mares for. She is a TB mare and the probably the best bred mare I own. We bought her at 8months of age, broke her as a yearling, and was only out of contact with her when racing. No previous history of kicking or being dangerous until after the foal arrived.

She certainly wouldn't be a mare for breeding sporthorses or leisure horses. I always wear a helmet and even my saftey vest when dealing with her.

Quite honestly, the owners knowing the history of the mare, should have been the only ones dealing with her. And I do believe there was negligence in letting anyone else near the mare. When the vet arrived, the owners should have delt with him, not this poor girl.

Terri
 
What an oddly written article; a lot of it makes no sense whatsoever. I am another who is wondering where the horse should have been?
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Sad loss of life and yes, a tragic accident.
 
So someone bought a horse which kicked - presumably randomly and savagely. It couldn't be used in a riding school, so the obvious thing is to breed from it. Because we want that sort of temperament perpetuated, right? I despair. Then, knowing the horse is a kicker, and being already wary of it, a girl goes into its stable without a hard hat. And somehow, all this is the horse's fault. The answer to the question of where the horse should have been, is in a tin of Pedigree Chum. What a series of blunders leading to a catastrophic outcome.
 
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Quite honestly, the owners knowing the history of the mare, should have been the only ones dealing with her. And I do believe there was negligence in letting anyone else near the mare. When the vet arrived, the owners should have delt with him, not this poor girl.



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Yep - I'd agree. A riding school is NOT the place to have a mare and a newborn foal unless it's well away from the main yard with big 'Keep Out' signs. MANY mares - with erfectly GOOD temeraments - can be very foal proud with a newborn. I have one mare who is an absolute sweetie 360 days of the year, but for 4-5 days after foaling she is a total COW!!

The owner allowed the girl to deal with the mare - despite undoubtedly knowing she could be tricky. Even my experienced staff are kept away from my cowbag mare the first few days after foaling - the mare knows me and trusts me more than she'd trust anyone and I'd rather risk being kicked myself than have one of my staff hurt. She's my resonsibility, not theirs!!

Mind you the expert witness didn't seem too 'expert' in waffling on about 'tethering'! Does he REALLY think that keeping a newly foaled mare tied up would achieve anything other than making her even more 'difficult'!!
 
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So someone bought a horse which kicked - presumably randomly and savagely. It couldn't be used in a riding school, so the obvious thing is to breed from it. Because we want that sort of temperament perpetuated, right? I despair. Then, knowing the horse is a kicker, and being already wary of it, a girl goes into its stable without a hard hat. And somehow, all this is the horse's fault. The answer to the question of where the horse should have been, is in a tin of Pedigree Chum. What a series of blunders leading to a catastrophic outcome.

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Agree with this.

Sadly some people are too thick not to breed from a badly tempered animal..
 
So it is the underqualified stable worker's fault? Or the horse's? One of those situations where you don't know where to turn. But my sympathy is with the family of this girl. Yes, it is a horse, with a foal, but this is a family, now with a lost child. Silly thing to do, but ... hmph, I know where my sympathy lies. Rest in peace. Horrible, and silly way to go.
 
Have to say what a tragice waste of a young life.....the poor girls family and everybody concerned.

Thought the article said the mare was not being used for riding lessons?.can't see where it says she has behavioural problems.....what exactly constitutes behavioural problem?

and, I breed, would never ever let anybody...not even a very experienced vet..nobody at all even.in the stable without me to see one of my mares that had newly foaled....and with 1 or 2 of my mares, I would be very very careful going into a stable with a mare and a very new born foal.
 
And I have a hanoverian mare exactly the same as yours janet george.in fact, once she foals inside,we get her outside as soon as we can and she won't let anybody near her for 4 days.then she calms down and brings her baby for anybody to view and is such the proud mother.
 
[ MANY mares - with erfectly GOOD temeraments - can be very foal proud with a newborn. I have one mare who is an absolute sweetie 360 days of the year, but for 4-5 days after foaling she is a total COW!!

Completely agree - I was very distressed to hear that a mare we used to have on loan had foaled on a large stud and then been very difficult to handle. It was her first foal and she was understandably foal proud - she is very sensitive and would have been much better being looked after by just one person, but I was told that because they had so many mare foaling it wasn't possible. They were lucky not to end up in the same situation. It doesn't NECESSARILY mean that she is a bad mare but clearly needs experienced handling and not by some poor trainee who has been in the job for a month. My thoughts are with her family, and I think they're right to pursue this on health and safety grounds, if only because it will draw attention to the issue.
 
Sympathy to the family, very tragic accident
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I find it very frustrating that we live in such a blame culture, working around horse's in a dangerous job and sadly not paid to reflect this. I'm sure the girl was very competent round the horse and was probably aware of her temprament, this was an accident plain and simple.

Re the breeding from a horse that kicks, it's likely the horse learned this behaviour from either ill or incompetent treatment by humans and it's unlikely the foal would be hard wired this way too. A responsible breeder would imprint the foal as soon as possible and wean early to avoid any of these characteristics transferring, I've seen it done and it can work.
 
This is a very tragic case. We know that a young girl was kicked and she died. There have been many presumptions made on the information given. That's understandable but I wonder if we have all the facts? For example we don't know if the young girl was wearing a hat or not - or indeed what she had been asked to do or not to do.

I am sure that the Police and Local Authority (LA) were involved and probably conducted an extensive investigation. If there was proof of criminal negligence then a prosecution would have followed. It hasn't.

You may all be right but on the other hand you may be wrong and unjust. Without more detailed facts we won't know. Perhaps there'll be something in H&H this week???

A tragic case and my sympathies to the family.

ps - I looked up the "expert witness" mentioned - http://www.animallawyers.co.uk/bfpeachey.html
 
Sorry but the amount of moaning about 'riding schools' is completely out of order as not all riding schools or the staff on them are as bad as people are making out nd in my opinion the only person at fault in all this is the girl herself as if she was working on this yard then she would have known what the horse was like and how to deal with it.
 
A tragedy for the girl and and her family.

Many mares are very tricky to handle shortly after giving birth but it seems like this particular mare had behavioral issues before that so WTF were they thinking breeding from it ?????

It makes me sooooooo mad when people breed from anything less than perfect mares. Why would you ?
 
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nd in my opinion the only person at fault in all this is the girl herself as if she was working on this yard then she would have known what the horse was like and how to deal with it.

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You're entitled to your opinion - but in mine, you're completely wrong! She was 20 years old and had been working at the school for 4 weeks!!! The article didn't suggest she had extensive experience before that - but IMHO, almost no-one aged 20 has been around long enough to be 'expert' at handling 'difficult' mares with very young foals at foot!

The responsibility for ensuring staff are experienced and competent enough to handle a difficult horse lies squarely with their employer.

Even if I'm wrong, the poor girl paid the ultimate price for her 'mistake' - and I find your comment offensive in the extreme!
 
Very tragic and sad accident indeed, i have brrodmares and most of them are foal pround and with that in mind i am the only one who deals with them for the first week, and i only do a small amount of handling with the foals and am always aware of how the mare is reacting and when she say enough i leave the stable.
I feel many people were in the wrong here and no-one person is too blame and we will never know why the girl went back into the stable on her own.
With all that said is is a sad loss of her family and a young life
 
I always wear a hard hat when handling new horses to the yard. One experienced owner thought this indicated I was afraid of my horses!!

New staff, new horses, mares and foals all represent 'risk' which should be properly asessed - this does not mean tons of paper but a bit of common sense and rules that everyone understands.
 
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... in my opinion the only person at fault in all this is the girl herself as if she was working on this yard then she would have known what the horse was like and how to deal with it.

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I've said it in an earlier post - that I don't think any of us have enough facts about this case and therefore proferring opinions is rather unjust.

However leaving this case aside and looking at more general principles; employers have legal responsibilities to make sure so far as is reasonably practicable to ensure the health, safety and welfare of their employees. Employers have to provide information, instruction, training and supervision. By law employers have to assess risks and reduce them as far as is reasonably practicable to minimise the risk of injury. They have to recognise that young and/or inexperienced workers are at greater risk. In addition employers have to ensure staff are competent to undertake tasks - the criteria to assess competence are usually taken to be knowledge, experience, training and personal attributes (e.g. attitutude).
So employers do have legal responsibilities. They really aren't that arduous. Before everyone jumps up and down - employees also have legal responsibilities to look after themselves and others.

This case demonstrates how quickly fatal accidents can happen around horses. It's easy to be wise after the event. It's tragic. If anything let's learn from it.
 
What a horrible way to go, my thoughts really do go out to all involved

I have friends who ride at this place however, they described the mare as a 'typical mare' but nothing dangerous. I didn't want to ask too many questions, didn't think it was my place to do so, however, i have always been bought up to wear a hard hat when dealing with horses, especially when protective over a newborn. I certainly don't think the yard owners should be held responsible, it's a hard business for them to be in at the best of time, and as for the girls age, she was older than me and I would have still worn a hat...

Theres plenty of places the blame could be placed here, but i don't think any of us know enough information to do so. I'm sure all those involved feel awful, and my thoughts go out to them all. RIP xxxx
 
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