Horse snobbery determines prices...

Firewell

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Following on from the post about how much would you pay for a horse, ive decided to write my own contraversial post, feel free to add your views, I would be interested to hear other peoples points of view.

Im not a professional rider, like most people I want a safe horse to compete successfully on at the lower affiliated levels. I dont agree that paying a lot of money is necessary at all (a lot of money being over 3k).

The most I have ever paid 4 a horse was £2600 for my TB mare when she was 5. 3 yrs on Iv'e lost count of the times ive been asked 'shes lovely, how much did u pay for her'? when ive told them they've said quietly 'you got a bargin'. I do admit bringing on a young horse was hard but i now how have a beautiful, brave talented horse that is easy to ride. I dont think i could buy that coupled with the relationship i have with her for all the money in the world.

I can understand that people want to pay mega bucks for a proven grade A sj/advanced eventer etc. But honestly how many of us are ever going to compete at that level!!! Sometimes i think its horse snobbery that pushes the prices up.... 'i brought a horse for 10k' seems to carry more weight than 'my horse was 50 quid off the local gypsies' even if the gypsie horse beat the 10k horse in the local PN
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I think more than breeding and potential, its the rider and how the horse has been educated that determines success at what is essentially grass roots level. IMO Every horse is capable of jumping a decent course of 3ft6 with the right training and ridden correctly.
People think PN/BN/DISCO/Elementary BD is big impoprtant stuff requiring a horse with the most amazing bloodlines etc etc and of course you cant buy that for less than 10,15,20 whatever thousand. The majority of horses are capable of that though with the right training, rider etc.
Just because a horse is out of a derby winner doesnt mean it will win the derby....

I also think the previous rider determines a lot of a horses worth. Just because the horse won its last 3 Novices with a professional rider, doesnt mean it will with you. Another reason why it becomes less about how much the horse costs. An expensive horse sold by a professional rider?? or a cheaper horse that you just felt right on??
I had a lot of success in the pony club area teams a few years back. While my team mates were astride expensive glossy 6yr olds out of penwood forge mills and baron B's. I was on a 17yr old stiff, grumpy chestnut mare Heinz 57 with a reputation of being a 'not novice ride'. Turned out we clicked and she became the most fabuluse horse 4 me. we won everything and beat everyone. Oh yeah she was given to me coz no-one else wanted her, she wasnt flash enough for them.

My mum paid 3k for her ex eventer. He was an irish TB, 7yr old. 2 years later she was offered 20k for him at an event (and that was 10yrs ago...)
Her current horse is another TB, shes done novice eventing and foxhunter lvl showjumping, shes a great jumper and her dressage trainer says she could go all the way. Guess what... she was free!

I just want to encourage those with not much money to spend. Unless you want to beat Anky, Its not about how pefectly bred and how much potential your horse has! Its not about how much it cost. Just because a horse cost 12k doesnt mean it is better than one that cost 2k. What is important, actually priceless, is the relationship you have with your horse. A relationship that inspires you to achieve your goals.

I always remember the saying 'horses have glass legs'. Expensive horses break too you know!
Dont buy a horse because of its breeding and because it has won X with so and so! Buy a horse coz it gives you that little glow when you ride it
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. Price is only a number and a horse is only as good as its last rider.

I always think that somewhere theres another non descript hairy no-body standing in a field, Its being passed by those blinded by 'breeding', 'potential', 'price'. However it still has someones name on it and a heart beating inside worthy of a badminton winner.

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agree completely with everything you have said.

I have seen a horse i used to work with (sheepcote wurlitzer lines) be beaten in an Advanced test by a Welsh D cross.
The horse competed best on the day.

Ted cost me nothing.. and I am proud to say to people. 'This is my horse Ted. he cost me nothing and is the best thing that ever happened to me!'

Everyone seems t want the most expensive horse... but its not always the best way.

Lou x
 
fair enough, a lot of good points there, but the fact is that if, like me, you really do want to get to Badminton, there will be certain things you (and everyone else in the same boat) are looking for (great conformation, presence, great movement, a certain build, a certain size, a certain %age of tb blood, good temperament, trainability etc etc) and when those all come together in 1 horse, it is going to be pretty special and command a high price tag simply because a LOT of people are going to want it. yes, if i found all those in a cheap horse i would grab it and not let go, but the fact is that most people know what they've got, and the chances of finding a true diamond in the rough are not great.
that's why i never believed those stories about Toytown having been bought by Zara as a 6 or 7 yr old (and i think he'd already got to Intermediate iirc) for £2k. yeah, right, as if his former owner was that generous/mad/blind! the real figure came out when Lucinda Green did an article on him in H&H recently... i think it was £20k... that's more like it!
yes, of course the nondescript hairy unnoticed horse with the heart of gold might well scrub up into a Badminton winner... if you know where one is, please let me know!
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i agree you dont have to spend alot - i think people sort of over estimate what they need - think it needs to novice event so that they can take it to the local ode, which is silly as they would save a good few grand. I did anyway!!! - i thought i needed something exciting spent a bit of money but she wasnt right so bought myself a new boy for half the amount and hes twice as good! Got so fed up with people saying i needed to spend 8k on a horse' all i want to do is hack and go to about 5 tiny local shows a year - dont think ill ever spend over 3 again - just have to put the work in myself.
 
Here here! I have to agree with you in a lot of ways. Growing up we never had enough money to buy expensive ponies, I just rode whatever was going, I think my most expensive pony was about £500. Then going onto horses, got given a TB who taught me loads, and then was given
an ex racer who I have had for 9 years now. I have had so much fun on him, he has been a brilliant horse, show jumping, one day events, hunting and open team chasing (scary!). I also bought a 5 year old Irish horse very cheaply and had lots of fun on him.

However, the last couple of years I have bought warmbloods who, yes, in your eyes, have been a lot of money, but the difference it has made to my riding is increadible! i had lessons on these other horses but they did all have their quirks and they weren't really very "ridable" if that makes sense. I am now finding that even though I have had young warmbloods, I have really been able to focus on my riding as well as improving their way of going. I'm not saying that I would go out and buy a warmblood because of its breeding, etc, but I think now having owned one, a good trainable temperament is worth that extra money.
 
Thing is, there are a LOT of people like me (I know two people who are in exactly the same boat as me), who are willing to spend 10k+ for a horse. Not because I want to compete at Badminton, but because I want to buy a more experienced horse that has been there and done it, so it can show me the ropes. I wouldn't give a hoot what it's breeding was, I would be paying for the experience it has on record.
At the same time, if something which cost £3k came up on the market which fitted what I wanted then I deffinately wouldn't say no- but we all know thats not going to happen.
I, as well as plenty of people, don't want to have to buy a young cheaper horse and bring them on like you have. I've been doing that for the last 10 years, and now I want to spend the money I have made by doing this on a horse which can take me to a higher level than I could get to by producing my own horse from scratch.

It's not snobbery.
 
I agree.

My horse split his tendon out at grass, it could so easily happen to a £10k horse too. I wrap my horse in cotton wool as it is.

I would much rather have a native or native x or a hairy cob.

I think a lot of people tend to go by looks. I go for personality every time.
 
I just want to encourage those with not much money to spend. Unless you want to beat Anky, Its not about how pefectly bred and how much potential your horse has! Its not about how much it cost. Just because a horse cost 12k doesnt mean it is better than one that cost 2k. What is important, actually priceless, is the relationship you have with your horse. A relationship that inspires you to achieve your goals.

I can appreciate what you are saying but I can also appreciate why people work very hard and search high and low to pay for an impressive and expensive animal to achieve their ambitions.

A lot of time, money and hard work is invested into producing these expensive horses, stud fee's...grooms...trainers...breeding from the best mares with proven track records etc so there not going to be cheap, it wouldn't be fees able.

If people can afford it, but aint going to event it etc then fair do's if I could afford it I no doubt would, but then I'm just as happy with my bog standard neddy also
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However I think you have offered some encouraging words there and wouldn't it be nice for a some of us reading this to think yep, ok lets see if we can get up to the top with our bog standard neddies....you cant knock anyone for trying and they succeed then all the better!
 
Well said, love your last bit about horse in field having been passed by, my TB I had was a similar story, I looked past the scabby looking, needing a good feed outset and ended up spending some of my best horsey years with a fabulous horse - we just clicked - I bartered him down from 3k to 2k!! X
 
I agree as well...... I didn't want to buy a young horse and bring it on, done too many of those in the past.... I wanted the older experienced horse to teach me and one I could improve with and go through the levels... and hopefully take what I have learnt back to my less educated horses..... yes he came with a large price tag, but he was worth every penny just for his temperament, never mind his dressage level adn experience. I wasn't even concerned what his bloodlines were when I went to look at him and quite frankly they still dont mean a thing to me either!
I cannot understand how the OP can say that a 12K horse is no better than a 2k horse though? Of course they are better, better bred, better trained.... may I suggest the OP sits on one of those more valueable to feel the difference for herself! Its not snobbery..... its the eagerness to learn and progress and go onto bigger and better things...... fair enough, not everyone can afford it.... but for those that can, I feel none of them would say its snobbery that commands the price!
 
I appreciate what your saying, however having spent the last few weeks looking at young sports horses, I can honestly say that most decent ones are priced £8K upwards. The sad fact is that sellers price horses for less than this because there is something wrong with them, usually lameness, conformational pre-disposition to lameness or they're not getting on with the job (probably under-lying discomfort - lameness!) I am not paranoid, this is the way it is. It isn't right these horses are really worthless.
You can get oldies, thoroughbreds and ponies for less but if you don't want one of them you have to spend what things cost. I don't want to go to Badminton but I also don't want a horse that's going to start limping as soon as its asked to do some work.
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Yes I agree with Weezy, find me one I like and I will give you cash right now!

The fact is, I horse hunted for about 8 months, I did my research on prices in Holland and Germany too, both at auctions and professional yards, and I looked at private homes too. The reality was, if I wanted a decent horse that had the POTENTIAL (it is not a guarantee) to train to the higher levels, I was going to have to pay out. At the end of the day there are a LOT of people looking for a horse that is capable of getting them into the top hat and tailcoat league, and no one wants to come last every time they compete!

I agree, most horses can be trained to the levels you mention and not just the 5 figure ones. But it is all relative, the horse's value increases with more training so if you do buy a top quality horse, in a year or two you could be looking at some serious profit, assuming it doesn't break or leg or whatever, but that is the life, nothing is without risk.

But as you said, the horse is only as good as its rider and it is pointless buying something that you cannot do justice. But for dressage, I have found that a horse with all the right "ingredients" is going to fetch a respectable price. And as for a more experienced horse, if someone has put in the hours I think they deserve to profit from it.
 
Compare them with cars, you want a small little run around that is cheap to run etc.... you buy a metro..... (or other smaller similar car) You want speed, class etc you buy a porsche..... now a porsche is definately better than a metro for obvious reasons..... so moral of the story is, you wanna get somewhere in life and get there a bit quicker, dont buy a metro, which is totally capable of getting you from a-b just the same, wont do it as quickly as a porsche!!!

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Lol! Yeah I don't think its really to do with snobbery. For some people 20k or whatever spent on something they love (and a bloody good horse) is not expensive at all. These horses are selling at supposed "expensive" prices so there must be people with money to spend.
 
I kind of want to agree with some of the comments made and balance what the OP is saying I have recently bought my quite well bred 4 year old, with heaps of advice and a dose of careful thought. I will only buy one horse now as I have returned to competition after a long break. Yes I paid much more than the 3K you mention but I have a horse who has a trainable temperemant, the (dreaded word) potential to jump the moon and who I will hopefully enjoy for many years.

I wont end up at HOYS and am waiting for the comment one day - super horse shame about the reasonably rubbish middle aged rider, I will giggle to myself as i will have thought it myself a million times. He will probably take me further than I ever planned. I saved for 4 years, waited till my children grew up a bit, have brilliant support and am enjoying having a great horse.

I spent most of my childhood/teens with cheap ponies/horses spending time schooling, bringing them on, with a fair amount of devils amongst them. So I suppose I have done my time with that and am looking forward to enjoying my horse and seeing how far we get.
 
I have no problem either way.

a 20k horse is worth nothing with a crap rider on it's back. My friend's £500 horse looks a million dollars competing at affiliated showing and is having great success.

Just to add, what does amuse me is people who have an expensive horse, compete at one level, fail miserably (because the rider isnt much cop) then drop down a level, go to local unaffiflated shows and show off when they've stolen rosettes off of kiddies.

There are a few of those round here...
 
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You want speed, class etc you buy a porsche

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Have to disagree with the class bit!!!
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If you want class you buy a frogeye!!
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Of course if it's speed you want, then maybe not!
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Agree with you there. People have to remember everything is relative and whats expensive to one is not so to someone else. Everyone's financial circumstances are different and there does tend to be a lot of money in the horse world (dressage circles particularly in my experience)

Other than that, I agree with Kerelli and Weezy. Most people dont specifically go out with the goal of spending x amount of money on a horse. They have a budget of what they can go upto and more importantly, a list of criteria they need filling. For those who are happy to just hack around, maybe do some light schooling and local shows, the "market" and supply of horses is greater than for those who want to compete in top hat and tails, go to badminton (like kerelli) or be able to jump the bigger tracks (like weezy).

The minute you start making more demands on the potential animal, the supply of horses suitable shrinks and the price inevitably raises. Its pretty much a rather simple case of supply and demand
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Im not particularly fussed about breeding. My current horse works at PSG and while his dads side is reasonably impressive, hes out of a connemara mare
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When we were looking, we quite specifically wanted a GP / PSG school master to take me through the dressage grades and that limited the search enormously.
 
If I went looking for another horse I would expect to pay at least £5k for an unbrokern youngster. Even though I am only a serious amateur I still want a serious horse with enough trainability and talent to do whatever I want(affiliated level) and a good youngster that is well mannered and well put together will sell for around that money at least. Of course I would still look out for cheaper ones but generally they are cheaper for a reason.

I would have valued my boy at about £6k before he was backed and at least £8k now he has dressage points and can jump!
 
Like the others I would jump at the chance to get a potential GP horse for a couple of thousand! I am probably the fat middle aged women bouncing around on the expensive horse that everyone sniggers at. However, I made my choice to work 16 hours a day in a well paid job in order to earn the money for the horse of my dreams. I could have followed my heart and did a job I enjoyed with animals - rode lots - and be slim and a fab rider but I didn't!

Its not the cost of the horse that worries me but its soundness and ability. It costs as much to keep a horse with little potential as it does to keep one with lots of potential. I may not be the worlds best rider but I get a lot of pleasure being an owner of a really top class horse and watching my trainer compete her. I also get a lot of pleasure riding her in the limited time I have - being able to ride a half pass or changes instead of the repititon of schooling a youngster.

We all make choices in life and I think mine (to be a fat middle aged women poncing about on an amazing horse) is as valid as anyone elses and not for one moment would I laugh or look down on the happy hacker on a £10 pony. So who is the real snob - those people that laugh at me or others like me that are just happy doing their own thing?
 
There is a reason that some horses are worth more than others - my new horse was nearly £10,000 and the beauty of him is that although he's only 5 he's got all the talent and temprament that I can do everything I want. Even at his young age he's been schooled correctly and done showjumping at a good level for his age (110 and above).

When we paid so much for him I thought that it was a bit steep, but he's proved that he's worth every penny. There aren't many 5 year olds who are as level headed and talented as him and as I was once told 'You can't put a price on safety'.

Can you tell I love my horse?
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I paid just over 3k for a 5 yr 14h old pony which is probably equivalent of much more for a horse

However the price for my pony was for his temperment and hardyiness yes I could have got a much cheaper pony but he is very quiet - when he was vetted all the vet had to comment on him was that he was very quiet and tough little chap and did I really want such a quiet pony (I am an adult) his price reflects his temperment and breeding - he is a registered NF which means as an adult I have more opportunities to compete on him than an unregistered pony and despite being quiet he can pop 4.9ft from standstill as I found when he jumped out of his stable!

People are paying more than 2k for happy hacking horses as well as competition horses safety and temperment are worth a lot!

Some people do not want to risk taking on a youngster that may or may not have potential but would prefer a horse that has a reliable reputation as a competition horse or they don't to have to manage a horse with issues even if they are a good rider.

Yes there are some cheap horses that go on to do great things but the majority of cheaper horses are not going to go round badminton or do PSG or need very competent professional riders.

Uncomplicated horses with nice temperments, no ailments and are competition horses are going to be worth more as there are less of them about.
 
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Compare them with cars, you want a small little run around that is cheap to run etc.... you buy a metro..... (or other smaller similar car) You want speed, class etc you buy a porsche..... now a porsche is definately better than a metro for obvious reasons..... so moral of the story is, you wanna get somewhere in life and get there a bit quicker, dont buy a metro, which is totally capable of getting you from a-b just the same, wont do it as quickly as a porsche!!!

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But Porsche is usually driven by men with a small penis, which really doesnt say alot does it?

Besides, you can have the best car in the world but it's the same as any other if the driver can't handle it
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I think it totally depends on what type of horse you are looking for. It would not impress me if I was told a horse bought for lots of money.

I feel that people buying good horses to compensate for their lack of ability (I'm talking rosette robbing at local shows with a very honest grade A) is a shame.

Unfortunaly horses are not like mars bars- you cant guarentee that a 10 year old WB inter will be £20k-where as a mars bar will always be 50p. Horse prices are totally down to opinion, therefore the horse prive is not always a good reflection of its ability.
 
To me, part of the challenge is buying something cheap and doing something good with it (and by good, I mean lower level eventing - up to BE Novice).

I think much depends on the level of risk you are willing to take and work you are willing to put in.

I currently have 2 horses, both of which cost me far less than £3k, both bought out of sales (Gorsebridge and Doncaster respectively). One is doing BE Novice and the other PN. However it has taken me 2/3 years of hard work to get there.

They are both sound and fit (touch wood) and have all the ability that I (and to be honest, most amateurs) will ever need.
 
It is worth noting though that there are a lot of very overpriced horses on the market. I am horsehunting and the amount of money asked for very ordinary horses can be disheartening - though those horses remain for sale month after month so buyers are not that stupid. I do feel its very sad when a novice buyer is taken advantage of and sold an expensive horse when they could have got something far more suitable for far less.
 
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