Horse sticking tongue out- Any ideas?

[seabiscuit]

A few weeks back while long-reining, Poppy got the habit of sticking her tongue out

It completly hangs out at the right hand side. I've had the vet check her teeth out under sedation as I couldnt get the dentist out ( again

) and they were quite sharp and vet thought that they had never been done. However I still have the dentist booked for two weeks time, shall I stick with that appointment just to see if there is something that the vet has missed, what do you think?

Anyway, I've tried a variety of bits and nosebands. Bits- single jointed snaffle, french link, loose ring and D rings, and a KK sprenger bit with a lozenge with loose rings. Only thing left to try is a KK bit with a lozenge and D rings/cheekpieces, but these cost a fortune... With a drop noseband she seems worse and becomes really set and fixed with tongue determindly hanging out... Flash and grackle loose and tight and no noseband makes no difference.

Its not just when being ridden it all started when she was being long-reined and had no pressure at all on her mouth! It is like she is constantly playing with the bit and her tongue. Her teeth are very immature so if she is teething what is the best thing to do ?

Any ideas ?

 

[zoon]

Is her tongue blue? (sorry, but I couldn't resist!)

When my horse continually had his tongue hanging out I rode him in a hackamore or headcollar - if the tongue stays in it is more likeley to be a bitting/bridle/noseband issue and if it came out it was more likely a teeth/all in the head issue. Just needs to be one quick session to try and work out what happens.

 

[kit279]

Have you tried latex wrap on the bit or something like a Nathe? I have a Neue Schule full cheek that you could borrow to try if you want but it's quite a thick mouthpiece, 16mm or thereabouts. Other thing to try would be a Hippus bit - we have Ottie in one and he really gets on with it.

 

[rotters13]

I have a horse that does the same but she does it in the stable as well. Weirdly I found that if you put a flash/drop on it was a lot worse. One of the articles recently in H+H said something like it is something to do with the horse having enough room to swallow so tying the mouth shut is not going to help. It did recomment the KK ultra. What I'm meaning to try with mine is a very thin, small french link, maybe with a roller to see if that makes any difference. I've also found that the tongue goes away when she is working properly from behind, but as she does it in the stable I'm at a bit of a loss and think that it is just her.

Annoyingly some dressage judges don't mind it and some will penalise you quite harshly for it. I've now just accepted it as something she does but am going to try and find a KK bit with a lozenge to try.

Good luck!

 

[zoon]

Mine goes well in a 12mm verbindend - it is shaped well to the mouth and very thin so fit his low palate and massive tongue well.

O_B - does your horse have a large tongue or a particularly low palate? That would make her more difficult to bit.

I think the KK dynamic has a small roller on the central lozenge (if not the dynamic then one of the kk bits does) which would allow for the movement in her mouth needed to swallow as the bit would roll over her tongue as it moved to the back of her mouth when she swallows. At the same time you need something shaped or ported and quite thin. This is all assuming her teeth are ok I suppose. I have bought a CS tongue saver recently and its a good shape like the verbindend is, nice and thin and a decent price.

 

[seabiscuit]

PMSL Zoon!!

How did I guess that comment would come up...!
Great idea re; trying the hackamore for a bit...

Kit- will try the latex and thank you for the offer!! I may take you up on that...will try riding her in a hackamore first

How did the Hippus make things better with Ottie?

 

[kit279]

He stopped chucking his head around and going like a hoover with his tongue hanging out. I borrowed one from Kerilli on here and it's very mild and slim and nice for him. Also it was the only bit that didn't split his mouth - just typically rather expensive

 

[seabiscuit]

Yes Poppy used to stick her tongue out a lot when she was in racing- only when she was in the stable tho- she would stand there for hours playing funny little games with her tongue and making funny faces and chewing her lips- I thought she was just entertaining herself TBH.. But it never came out under saddle until now

Now she doesnt do it in the stable but does it under saddle instead!

Any sort of a noseband definately seems to make it worse I agree, just seems to make more tension in the jaw..perhaps it will stop as she becomes stronger and starts to work from behind.

Also think a really thin bit with a lozenge may work..I have one, but its not thin enough. I've seen that the sprenger dynamic bits look quite good- but they are £140.

Just trial and error to get this right I think, good luck with yours!

 

[seabiscuit]

She has the tiniest little jaw ever ( shetland sized) and the HUGEST , longest tongue ( shire sized)! Is a low palate a flat shaped jaw rather than a concave jaw? If so it is a flat shaped jaw.

I will look into the verbrebrand/dynamic/tongue saver bit, it sounds like one of those could work..just why on earth are these bits so expensive! I am sure that they only cost the company about £5 to make!

Kit- the Hippus sounds fab

 

[madhector]

Jazz was very similar to begin with, tongue would constantly come out the side. Tried every combination of noseband and bit and concluded that she didnt like metal, jointed or fixed bits. Ended up in a nathe straightbar loose ring, with a flash done up very loosely.

Tongue now stays in mouth, unless you undo the noseband and leave the bridle on for a bit after riding, then she starts fiddling again

 

[kerilli]

i'd suggest the Hippus too, it really is very very kind. i use it with a loose cavesson and it seems to settle their mouth down immediately.

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you MH- I've got a straight bar rubber which I am going to try tomorrow, fingers crossed !

Kerrelli- thanks, will definatley give the Hippus a go if no luck with the others....

 

[Roody2]

mine started doing this when I first got him - had him in a NS eggbut with lozenge. I changed him to a myler with level 1 port and he was fine for a couple of weeks until I started hacking him - the he was a real pain, playing with his tongue, sticking it out and even getting it over the bit - had him in a flash done up 'normal' - not too tight and not too loose.

So today I went out and got a myler with level 3 port - apparently meant to give more tongue room and make it more difficult for them to get their tongue over - I'll keep you posted on the outcome...

 

[seabiscuit]

Yes please do...tried a myler with a port yesterday ( have no idea what level of port tho) it was awful on her

maybe she needs a larger port.

 

[KatB]

Thinnest bit possible. I would try a verbidend in a 12mm, apparently mares are very sensitive about tongue pressure anyway. I LOVE the hippus bits, but they're not dressage legal.

A "shaped" bit would be your best bet

 

[flyingfeet]

Well to give you background - mine would only go in a NS verbindend otherwise the tongue would loll out. He doesn't pull or fight, but just popped his tongue out as he didn't like the pressure (this was pre the introduction of the starter and team up bit)

However my horse is slowly turning pink and it annoyed me that you couldn't get the verbindend in other mouthpiece styles, as I needed a non-loose ring to stop his lips from rubbing.

So I got dad to make our Tongue Saver range, I actually have this in a baucher for mine, but these are not available yet as we just have the loose ring, beval and universal. However a baucher, kimblewick, pelham and cartwheel gag are in production

These are 12mm mouthpiece which the shape to give maximum space and be ergonomic - these are more shaped than sprengers, but don't have the centre lozenge rotation of a verbindend (as its patented!), means that the verbindend is in theory a bit sharper, but I haven't noticed a huge difference in mine.

Also regarding price - any new bits have massively gone up in price due to the GBP dropping and also anything with copper in has shot up significantly in the past few years. However we are the cheapest in this style

 

[kerilli]

KatB, it's a bit up in the air at the moment whether they are dressage legal or not... i've been told that they've been okayed by the FEI and added to the written lists of those allowed, but they're not on the pictured lists (which most people use for instant reference), and when BE/BD checked recently with FEI they were told that the Hippus weren't allowed... but anyone who has ever seen one will know that there's no earthly reason why they shouldn't be, as they're just a v kind single-joint, nothing at all harsh or sharp about them.
still waiting for verification (again) that they're permitted...

 

[KatB]

Yeah I know, I had heard that (probably from you actually?

) I cant see why there would be any problem tbh...