Horse suddenly dragging toes in Trot..

[EquestrianFairy]

I say suddenly, new horse- didn't do it initially but now does it in Trot when on the road (can hear the clinking).

Had back checked, all ok, saddle/teeth all ok.

Any ideas? Only thing that's changed in the pasture.

 

[ycbm]

How new?

This is a symptom of hock spavin, among other things. If the horse is new in the last few weeks or months then I'm afraid I'd be suspecting medication of the hocks for vetting wearing off.

I hope not, for your sake, but I think some flexion tests are in order and if you can't do them yourself you'll need a vet call.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

I've had him 8 weeks. Toe dragging only started around 1.5 weeks ago- its like its come from nowhere.

He wasn't doing it before.

Getting the vet after 8 weeks doesn't really fill me with confidence, he's 100% sound but I don't know anyone who can do flexions so will need a vet.

 

[be positive]

I've had him 8 weeks. Toe dragging only started around 1.5 weeks ago- its like its come from nowhere.

He wasn't doing it before.

Getting the vet after 8 weeks doesn't really fill me with confidence, he's 100% sound but I don't know anyone who can do flexions so will need a vet.

I agree with ycbm that it does sound suspiciously like something wearing off but has the farrier made any changes to his feet in the time you have had him, it could be that he has not taken enough off the toes or that you are leaving too long between shoeing, some need doing every 4 or 5 weeks to be properly balanced especially when the grass is growing well making their feet grow faster than normal.

 

[ycbm]

I've had him 8 weeks. Toe dragging only started around 1.5 weeks ago- its like its come from nowhere.

He wasn't doing it before.

Getting the vet after 8 weeks doesn't really fill me with confidence, he's 100% sound but I don't know anyone who can do flexions so will need a vet.

Be Positive's response is a good one.

Unless you are very sure of the source you bought him from I'm afraid I would be testing the blood sample you hopefully got at vetting for anti inflammatory drugs.

Of course it's also possible that he has done something like tweak his SI since you bought him. But if there is any chance of you needing to claim a mis-sale, then sooner is better than later.

I hope it is something and nothing.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Weirdly this entered my mind as well-

He has been done by the farrier two weeks ago and they look long to me- however I did ask farrier and he said they aren't long but to my untrained eye they are.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Be Positive's response is a good one.

Unless you are very sure of the source you bought him from I'm afraid I would be testing the blood sample you hopefully got at vetting for anti inflammatory drugs.

Of course it's also possible that he has done something like tweak his SI since you bought him. But if there is any chance of you needing to claim a mis-sale, then sooner is better than later.

I hope it is something and nothing.

I got him from a friend so I do trust her but that doesn't mean I'm not concerned as the suddenness has certainly worried me.

He is on very very good grass but not gaining weight quick enough either for my liking.

 

[ycbm]

I got him from a friend so I do trust her but that doesn't mean I'm not concerned as the suddenness has certainly worried me.

He is on very very good grass but not gaining weight quick enough either for my liking.

OK, that paints another picture. Was his musculature poor? Because the other horse I had do this, and do it really badly downhill, turned out to have PSSM. If your horse has a low grade version of this disease that went unnoticed, then it would be possible that the change to richer grass is affecting his muscles, making him weak and then that makes him tap his toes.

What breed is he?

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Yes he had no muscle at all, not worked for a few weeks due to a rider injury.

He originally went on my winter fields with Haylege and moved to new field maybe 2 weeks or so ago? Previous to moving he never did it.

He's put on weight but to me, is nowhere near enough- he's on two conditioning feeds a day in addition and work load is lots of hacking to build him up with schooling in between/or Pessoa.

He's a 3/4 Arab

I've not noticed an issue when going down hill or at least it's not been noticed by me.

 

[ycbm]

It's he lacking stamina/lazy? Is he spooky? What sort of feeling do you have when you press his big bum muscles?

It has been documented in Arabs, but since I have two horses with it I look for it everywhere!

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Quite the opposite, he has too much energy sometimes and goes on and on like a Duracell bunny.

Yes, very spooky- annoyingly so. He has got better, when he first came he was scared of life (how I used to explain it) but now he's bonded with me he has settled and is far more chilled around the yard, hacking however is still the spookiest thing in the world.

His bum muscles at the back- like either side of his tail are rock solid, oddly because he doesn't appear to actually have any muscle over his bUm at all.

 

[ycbm]

Quite the opposite, he has too much energy sometimes and goes on and on like a Duracell bunny.

Yes, very spooky- annoyingly so. He has got better, when he first came he was scared of life (how I used to explain it) but now he's bonded with me he has settled and is far more chilled around the yard, hacking however is still the spookiest thing in the world.

His bum muscles at the back- like either side of his tail are rock solid, oddly because he doesn't appear to actually have any muscle over his bUm at all.

The rock solid bum muscles combined with lack of muscle, spooking and failing to thrive on rich grass would all suggest PSSM to me. The Duracell bunny not so much, but I'm not an fait with how the more hotblood breeds behave with it.

It would possibly be worth trying him on 10,000iu a day of vitamin E (you may be able to reduce this later), and if that does not have enough of an effect, add 10g of alcar.

If you use synthetic vitamin E, you need twice as much.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Interestingly I had him on the spillers balancer which had vit E and selinium in it but never re ordered once I finished the bag.

Could that have made a difference?

Where can I get vit e from?

 

[ycbm]

Interestingly I had him on the spillers balancer which had vit E and selinium in it but never re ordered once I finished the bag.

Could that have made a difference?

Where can I get vit e from?

Bingo! More grass sugars, less vitamin E, less selenium (also important). Yes, that will do it for a horse with a mild muscle myopathy.

Cheapest way to feed vitamin E is Equimins oil. I hate it, others are fine with its stickiness and difficulties measuring it. Equimins.co.uk, I think.

I use synthetic powder from eBay, £42 for 1.5 kg. To feed the equivalent of 10,000iu natural you will need to give forty grams a day.

If you are going to give that much vitamin e you can't do it by feeding a powder with selenium in, you will overdose selenium. You could do it by giving a standard dose of vitamin E with selenium, and topping up with powder without selenium in. Both can be found on eBay.

If he was fine on the supplement you were using then you may find that much lower levels will be OK. Personally, I would give him a bump start with ten and then reduce it once the toe tapping stops.

Good luck.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

The supplement I changed over from (from spillers to THINKPINK)
Has more selenium and vit E in it than the spillers did.


Maybe it wasn't the change after all? :-(

 

[SEL]

A good friend of mine has a pure bred Arab that has tied up a few times. She's never had a muscle biopsy, but keeps the mare on minimal grazing, Alpha A with oil for energy. Basically a typical PSSM diet with really low sugar and starch.

I can't remember whether she adds vitamin E - but for her horse it's sugar and stress that are the triggers to tight muscles.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

As you can see from reading this thread there are numerous thoughts on what may be causing the issue. For this to suddenly show could be that there was an issue at the time of buying but it may have been masked by medication. Did you have a vetting & blood taken?

You don't give the age of the horse & you don't say which feet he's dragging. There could be an issue with hocks if its back feet. If front then possibly coffin joints? With either you would need a vet to check your horse over & you may need joints medicated.

There again you could google the symptoms & get really worried about what comes up.

Best thing is to get your vet to take a look & do a proper diagnosis then you will know what the issue is & what can be done about it. Good Luck

 

[Goldenstar]

When was the horse last shod .

 

[scats]

I havet a toe dragged - now retired- he did it as a 4 year old prior to me buying him and was fully stayed and scanned but no reason could be found. He could be worked out of it so was put down to laziness and being weak behind. I got him as a 7 year old and he did it mildly when not tracking up properly but was able to work out of it after warming up. Last year it got worse and I was unable to get him to work out of it. He is 13 now and we've just retire him due to kissing spines, but think there is some hock arthritis going on. Possibly actually as a result of his poor way of going behind rather than the cause, given that he did it from so young when he was xrayed,scanned and deemed to be in perfect health.

 

[Lanky Loll]

We've had 2 toe draggers - one did it when hacking if allowed to slop along, if made to walk & trot properly she was fine (she was so bad you'd see sparks on the road ) as she got stronger and carried herself better it stopped. The other came with long toes and would almost trip on the road, knocking the toes back solved that along with making sure they are trimmed regularly and definitely no longer time period than 6 weeks.

 

[Sags_Deer]

Are the feet wearing at all, check your shoes.
It is often a sign of spavin.