Horse suddenly stops and Ems -help

Katelouise

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Hi all

I've got a 6 year old Irish cob. I've had him since a 4 Year old and we've experienced a number of health issues but it's no impacting him under saddle

His bloods initially showed elevated liver enzymes and he was treated with liver tonic and steroids. His levels weren't improving and given his obsession with food and constant hunger we tested for Ems which came back positive. We are treating for Ems and the liver went back to normal (steroids made the EMS worse which then impacted the liver and round and round we went)

He is on restricted turnout, soaked weighed hay (soaked nin 4 hours and 1.5% of body weight when dry). Low cal balancer, Dengie meadow grass lite just for anti choak (very low cal/sugar etc), salt and diabetes tablets (steglatro and then one other). All feeds wet. His weight is coming off (609 down to 572 so far) and going in right direction but his obsession with food is getting worse. Will eat his breakfast/hay and then drag me to other horses nets etc.

Worked 5-6 days a week, mix of schooling, hacking, lunging. His ridden works was coming on really well but the past couple of weeks he has started planting suddenly. It's not a lazy, stubborn stop but more like he's in pain as he just refuses to move from the spot. He'll be trotting well and then slam on the brakes and won't take a single step and backs up if I put any leg on or even squeeze slightly, you can feel him tense up like a ball underneath you. Out hacking the other day with other horses, he did the same and let the others go ahead and out of sight and couldn't move from the spot. My instructor has also noticed he is not right.

I've had his saddle checked twice in 4 months and it's fine (had three different saddlers and recent one is by far the best, Ive had a bit lady out (loose ring turtle top snaffle), dentist (good teeth and bit suits his mouth shape), bloods are all good, liver and kidneys also checked and his EMS meds made him wee lots to get rid of excess insulin. Have had him scoped (clear so not ulcers), have had physio and they're not concerned. Vet is also doing a full bodywork on Monday.

He just seems so off and it's so unlike him. I am running out of ideas and what else it could be.

He had impaction colic last month as taps froze so had dry hay and didnr drink enough as so cold. Since adding warm water to his bucket and add salt to his feeds to prompt the thirst response.

Has anyone else had similar? I'm wondering if there's Ems tablets could maybe be causing some symptoms with maybe his urinary tract if weeing so much (take whole of the middle of his bed out daily) or maybe his hind gut. Ive put him on protexin gut balancer in case anything with his tummy but as above, scope was clear.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks all x
 

GrassChop

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Have you tested for pssm?

Also, a lot of horses seem to be flaring up at the moment with the changes in weather and grass. A Protexin Quick Fix syringe has helped mine with the addition of marshmallow root to soothe the gut but looking at a gut balancer to help the hindgut as a back up.

Does he have any fecal water signs?
 

Katelouise

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Thanks so much for your reply. No I haven't tested for that, thank you, will speak to my vet.

He had a quick fix today as is due to be wormed and no faecal water signs, all normal albeit poo a little darker in colour but just assumed that was due to less turnout where I haven't wanted him to go out and eat frosty grass.
 

Lucky Snowball

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Not particularly the planting but he sounds hungry. Could you offer straw or increase the soaked hay since the weight is coming off nicely.
 

GrassChop

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Thanks so much for your reply. No I haven't tested for that, thank you, will speak to my vet.

He had a quick fix today as is due to be wormed and no faecal water signs, all normal albeit poo a little darker in colour but just assumed that was due to less turnout where I haven't wanted him to go out and eat frosty grass.
You sound like you're doing all the right things.
I just wondered if he might be tying up when he plants, could always try and put him on vitamin e to see if there are any improvements in the meantime if it is that.
I really hope you find the answer.
 

Katelouise

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He has and additional 2kg of straw as well as his hay intake but leaves the straw most days. I use the shire soft mesh small holed nets to slow him down so he can feed for longer and also kinder on his teeth as no knots. He's been seem by both Saracens and Bailey's for his weight, food rations and with the EMS he can't have ab lib hay. It's such a hard balance. Vet said the EMS means the food he eats doesn't get into the cells so whilst he is having enough food, due to the insulin and glucose levels being a bit all over the place, his cells basically tell him he's still hungry....Ems is so hard to manage and now with the planting too
 

Katelouise

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You sound like you're doing all the right things.
I just wondered if he might be tying up when he plants, could always try and put him on vitamin e to see if there are any improvements in the meantime if it is that.
I really hope you find the answer.
Thanks so much. Will take a look at vitamin e. X
 

maya2008

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At 1.5% of body weight he will be hungry all the time. Would he snack on straw? He could have that ad lib to fill him up and keep him warm, it’s virtually no energy, like eating salad for people! I would also make sure he has access to a salt lick all the time. The constant weeing will deplete his electrolytes.
 

Katelouise

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Thanks so much for your reply. He is given 2kg of straw a day in addition to his hay allowance but he won't eat it. He has salt added to both his breakfast and his dinner and also had a salt lick in his stable x
 

Pinkvboots

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Is he on any medication for ems? There are quite alot of different treatments now that are really effective and can get them out of that ems state.

Do you mix the straw with the hay ration I find it can help getting them to eat more of it.

I would also test for pssm it's not expensive.

Good luck for the work up Monday fingers crossed if they find anything it's easily fixed, please update once you find out.
 

Katelouise

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Is he on any medication for ems? There are quite alot of different treatments now that are really effective and can get them out of that ems state.

Do you mix the straw with the hay ration I find it can help getting them to eat more of it.

I would also test for pssm it's not expensive.

Good luck for the work up Monday fingers crossed if they find anything it's easily fixed, please update once you find out.
Thanks so much for your reply

He was on Steglatro for his EMS but is now on a different brand, I can't remember the day but it's a new drug that sorts out the insulin issues. The vet said every other horse she's had on it has lost loads of weight and doing so well on it but it's not having the same effect with my horse and she's not sure why which makes me think more is going on.


I mix hay and straw in one net but he weeds all the hay out and leaves the straw. I also have a net of just straw and he leaves that too.

Will test for pssm, thanks so much x
 

Dam1

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Apparently ertiglcosi (Steglatro or similar) can cause urinary infections - perhaps he felt uncomfortable due to this which has made him stop for a minute.
My horse was diagnosed with ems initially but it turned out she had cushings too so is now on prascend which seems to have sorted out her insulin levels (along with losing a lot of weight and having to be really strict with food intake - (read paranoid). X
 

Katelouise

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Apparently ertiglcosi (Steglatro or similar) can cause urinary infections - perhaps he felt uncomfortable due to this which has made him stop for a minute.
My horse was diagnosed with ems initially but it turned out she had cushings too so is now on prascend which seems to have sorted out her insulin levels (along with losing a lot of weight and having to be really strict with food intake - (read paranoid). X
Thank you. He was on that and is now on canaliflozin. He wees so much so I also wonder if it's urinary tract but then I lunged him today and he is short on both back legs. Will speak to vet about testing for Cushing's. Thank you
 

Boulty

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Heya if you’re finding he’s still getting through the hay too fast in the shires nets nibbleze do a double net small holed net. Made a difference in eking out my Highlands weighed ration (he was also on 1.5% although I couldn’t soak for various reasons). If he’s not keen on the straw he’s got atm would a true of plain straw chaff to nibble be an option (I think a lot of people use topchop zero with good success)

Would second supplementing Vit E as horses who don’t have fresh grass in their diet require it supplementing anyhow (in winter it’s deficient in grass anyway) and if you don’t already have him on a vit & mineral balancer I’d suggest that as well as soaked hay tends to be lacking in nutrients.

Definitely get the vet out for another look as well if you feel he looks short / is acting painful.
 

Boulty

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Oh and mine turned his nose up at straw as well.

I went full evil mummy and hung his non double netted haynet from the rafters as well to make it last longer. Both nets always had a nibble left but not much more which was my aim.
 

Katelouise

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Update

He was referred to a specialist and turns out it was the EMS tablets and he has hypoglycaemia. Where the weight has come off, his glucose and insulin were no longer spiking but the tablets were stripping him of them meaning his glucose levels were so low he was getting no energy from his food. Explains the planting as like when we have low blood sugar, it can lead to lethargy, dizziness, disorientation etc. Also explains why he was so hungry all the time as his cells weren't getting the glucose from his food. Poor boy

We are no weaning him off the tablets slowly over two weeks then just managing with exercise and diet to keep the weight off and limited grazing /muzzle in spring. Regular bloods but current bloods look really good so vet happy.

Seems the new EMS drugs are great for assisting in the initial weight loss but not a long term solution.

Thankfully my vet has been amazing and we've got to the bottom of it.

Thanks for all of your comments and advise x
 

Zoeypxo

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Update

He was referred to a specialist and turns out it was the EMS tablets and he has hypoglycaemia. Where the weight has come off, his glucose and insulin were no longer spiking but the tablets were stripping him of them meaning his glucose levels were so low he was getting no energy from his food. Explains the planting as like when we have low blood sugar, it can lead to lethargy, dizziness, disorientation etc. Also explains why he was so hungry all the time as his cells weren't getting the glucose from his food. Poor boy

We are no weaning him off the tablets slowly over two weeks then just managing with exercise and diet to keep the weight off and limited grazing /muzzle in spring. Regular bloods but current bloods look really good so vet happy.

Seems the new EMS drugs are great for assisting in the initial weight loss but not a long term solution.

Thankfully my vet has been amazing and we've got to the bottom of it.

Thanks for all of your comments and advise x
Interesting thanks for updating. Ems is really tough x
 

clairebearfur1

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Hi all

I've got a 6 year old Irish cob. I've had him since a 4 Year old and we've experienced a number of health issues but it's no impacting him under saddle

His bloods initially showed elevated liver enzymes and he was treated with liver tonic and steroids. His levels weren't improving and given his obsession with food and constant hunger we tested for Ems which came back positive. We are treating for Ems and the liver went back to normal (steroids made the EMS worse which then impacted the liver and round and round we went)

He is on restricted turnout, soaked weighed hay (soaked nin 4 hours and 1.5% of body weight when dry). Low cal balancer, Dengie meadow grass lite just for anti choak (very low cal/sugar etc), salt and diabetes tablets (steglatro and then one other). All feeds wet. His weight is coming off (609 down to 572 so far) and going in right direction but his obsession with food is getting worse. Will eat his breakfast/hay and then drag me to other horses nets etc.

Worked 5-6 days a week, mix of schooling, hacking, lunging. His ridden works was coming on really well but the past couple of weeks he has started planting suddenly. It's not a lazy, stubborn stop but more like he's in pain as he just refuses to move from the spot. He'll be trotting well and then slam on the brakes and won't take a single step and backs up if I put any leg on or even squeeze slightly, you can feel him tense up like a ball underneath you. Out hacking the other day with other horses, he did the same and let the others go ahead and out of sight and couldn't move from the spot. My instructor has also noticed he is not right.

I've had his saddle checked twice in 4 months and it's fine (had three different saddlers and recent one is by far the best, Ive had a bit lady out (loose ring turtle top snaffle), dentist (good teeth and bit suits his mouth shape), bloods are all good, liver and kidneys also checked and his EMS meds made him wee lots to get rid of excess insulin. Have had him scoped (clear so not ulcers), have had physio and they're not concerned. Vet is also doing a full bodywork on Monday.

He just seems so off and it's so unlike him. I am running out of ideas and what else it could be.

He had impaction colic last month as taps froze so had dry hay and didnr drink enough as so cold. Since adding warm water to his bucket and add salt to his feeds to prompt the thirst response.

Has anyone else had similar? I'm wondering if there's Ems tablets could maybe be causing some symptoms with maybe his urinary tract if weeing so much (take whole of the middle of his bed out daily) or maybe his hind gut. Ive put him on protexin gut balancer in case anything with his tummy but as above, scope was clear.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks all x
Test for pssm . have hocks checked too . Doe he get a chaff before being rode, this keep the gut comfortable
 
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