horse throwing head

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horsiechic

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Hi everyone, wonder if anybody can help me

I have a 4 year old thoroughbred mare and she's giving me a bit of a dilemma

She came off the track and started off being iffy with her mouth.... so i looked in there and saw on her tonuge she has a mean scar, right where the join of a bit sits. its the full width of the tongue and raised - so i figured ok she doesn't like the joint because of this
i've now put her in a slightly ported pelham and still having issues

When you put the bridle on she takes the bit happily but then we start with the tongue, its over the bit, its under the bit, its out the side of the mouth its back in, its everywhere it shouldn't be.
then i do the noseband up as tight as possible to try keep the jaw from crossing, then she starts fidgetting again. she also sucks the bit up really high and shoots it out to the left.
now i get on and as soon as i touch my reins she starts throwing the head up and tilting ever so slightly - nose to the right.
if i open my hand really wide and drop them level with my knees she calms down - briefly then she starts again - all the time the tongue and head are busy.
She is definately NOT dry in the mouth there is so much spit around she's going to drown us - and the way she throws the head it goes everywhere.

Now the reason i took her off the jointed bit she was just setting the neck and barging into the bit - this she is not doing on the pelham.
Double join was a no no she got nasty.

so what i need now are suggestions - what do i ride my psyco little baby on? or is she just being bad and needs a good smack or finally is it wolf teeth??

When i got her in july her teeth were shocking, they looked like she needed braces - she has since lost 2 baby teeth in the top row and they've now straightened up the bottom teeth however or still all over the place.

Suggestions please!!!!
 
This sounds like a pain issue. The bit is obviously hurting her tongue, if the scar is raised then the bit must be pressing down on it. I don't think having the nose band really tight is going to help neither is 'giving her a smack'. Perhaps having a vet look at her tongue might be the way to go. Your mare is obviously trying to tell you something.
 
thanks poodle, i thought the scar was the issue - vet checked it he suggested the pelham with port - its a nice gentle port so really confused now
 
thanks digger - you see this is why we need forums, you get so lost in thought you miss the obvious, lets expand on bitless - are you thinking hackamore or proper bitless bridle
 
You have said that your horse has come straight off the track!

Racehorses are NOT taught to be on the bit at all! Loose rein means slow pace tight reins mean gallop on the bridle to the finish line.

Not sure what your vet was trying to achieve with a pelham???? Exracers only have loose ring snaffles and TBs naturally have very small mouths so getting a KK sprenger ultra probably 14mm is the way to start. The tongue lolling and crossing jaws are very common with racehorses-mine did it for a while (around 2 years) he always foamed as well when he was excited which was probably every ride out!

I would also enlist the help of a ROR Trainer-they are very knowledgeable for exracers. There are plenty listed on the Retraining of Racehorses website.

It just sounds like your exracer just needs a bit of help to understand the new aids you are giving.
 
foraday, thank you! you make a lot of sense, just a question what is a ROR trainer? sorry from south africa so am rather confused.

the reason my vet suggested pelham was for the port to get pressure off her tongue - its really the only ported bit we can buy here that's affordable.

Also i want to show her and thats kinda the accepted dress - so it was a start as you intend to got on - can you tell me about the kk please i'm interested
 
I used a Dr Cook bitless bridle on my Welsh Cob x as he had a period on loan to a riding school and started to lean on the bit. It works by 'hugging' the head when you apply pressure to the reins. Google it and you will find lots of info. It was fantastic for my boy and I actually found I had more control with my Dr Cook than I did with the french link snaffle.
I am actually also thinking of trying it with Harvey, as he also throws his head around and I haven't been able to find the cause, despite dentist/vet/McTimoney etc.
It won't suit everyone, but many people once they have used it, never want to return to a bit.
It is very different to a Hackamore, which can be quite severe.
 
couple of extra things - you didn't say if you had had a dentist to sort out her teeth? also, would endorse the fact that most TB's have small mouths - to give you an idea my 17 chaser type ended up with the snaffle part of a double as his jaw was so narrow all bit rings would meet and pinch. A pelham with a port is still a mouthful for a baby used to something softer. ROR in the UK means retraining racehorses as its a big industry over here with specific showing classes etc.

I can't advise on bitless as have never used but with both of my ex raceers I actually started off with a plain rubber snaffle to work out what suited them though to be fair to you I didn't start off with a mouth injury to work around
 
digger66 said:
Why don't you try bitless? If the head shaking goes away you'll know it's pain in her mouth, if she carries on it's the memory of previous pain or a training issue.
Click to expand...

I agree. Mine has a bone spur awaiting operation with a further 6/8 weeks before bitting.

Today as an experiment I turned my Hackamore into a bitless bridle by removing the shanks and swapping them for a pair of rings from the sides of an old head collar, mainly because there isn't much lateral movement in the Hackamore and I've been told to put the horse in self carriage.
Upshot is we went round the silage fields and I didn't get carted.
 
ROR is retraining of racehorses-just google it.

There is a website and plenty of advice and help about. There is also a forum just for exracers as well with lots of knowledgeable people on there.

Good luck
 
CeeBee said:
I used a Dr Cook bitless bridle on my Welsh Cob x as he had a period on loan to a riding school and started to lean on the bit. It works by 'hugging' the head when you apply pressure to the reins. Google it and you will find lots of info. It was fantastic for my boy and I actually found I had more control with my Dr Cook than I did with the french link snaffle.
I am actually also thinking of trying it with Harvey, as he also throws his head around and I haven't been able to find the cause, despite dentist/vet/McTimoney etc.
It won't suit everyone, but many people once they have used it, never want to return to a bit.
It is very different to a Hackamore, which can be quite severe.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hi-jack your post, but thought I would give you an update.
I have used my Dr Cook with Harvey 3 times now and guess what - no head throwing...
I have had him almost a year and in that time, had his teeth checked 3 times.
I feel terrible now! I feel like he's been in pain every time I have ridden him!
However, whilst the Dr Cook has been fine for gentle, unexciting hacks, I don't think long term I would feel so confident with it. Harvey is a very big, strong horse.
The 2 bits I have tried, are a german silver full cheek snaffle with lozenge - a fairly chunky bit and a sweet iron loose ring snaffle - a fairly narrow bit.
Problem is, Harvey takes a good 6 1/2 in bit and there is not a huge range in this size. I have been advised to try a Happy mouth with lozenge.
Anyone any other suggestions?
 
My TB ex-racer was a nightmare when I first got him. He permanentlly had his mouth open and fought me. I put him in a Dr Cooks bitless for about 18 months. I then decided that I wanted to do dressage again so had to put him back in a bit. I had some lessons of a classical trainer where I was taught to ride far more with my seat and giving aids using my body, not my hands, and I now have a horse I can ride in a bit all the time - often when you don't feel you're being hard with your hands, you can be. I never felt like I was being harsh, but he is so light in the hand now and working in self-carriage, that I realise that I was the issue, not him. He is now ridden in a loose-ring french link with cavesson noseband. If I am schooling him and he becomes agitated, I know that I am doing something wrong - not him....
 
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