Horse turned out with a cribber seems to of started cribbing?

Girlracer

Girlracer

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Hi guys, just need a bit of advice.

As some of you know I got Domino (coloured) on loan in May as Major (chestnut) was off with kissing spines.

Domino is a cribber, Major has NEVER had any vices apart from the odd box walk if left alone (had him 2 and a half years). He has recently started OCCASIONALLY cribbing, i'm not sure what to do.

Do you think taken away from Domino he would stop? Don't want my horse being taught vices...
 
Ime they don't copy vices. It's simply that the same environment can result in the same habits, including vices. It's more likely that a lack in something (food, stimulation, minerals etc) are causing it.
 
I shall watch with interest as received wisdom is that horses don't learn vices from each other but are showing similar reactions to the same stresses. The scientists on here get quite vocal about it.

However, from my own observation, horses that have never shown any reaction to situations, when introduced to a horse that has a vice in those situations suddenly dsplay the same behaviour. We make use of horses' ability to learn positive behavour from others but science tells us horses can't learn undesirable behaviour.

I'd suggest that you separate Major from Domino and hope the cribbing stops again.
 
Are you sure he is cribbing and not nibbliing/chewing wood or resting on posts? My cribber has been out with over 20 horses over time and not one has copied and he can be a determined and regular cribber...
 
Ditto the angel little legs.

The current thinking is that horses don't copy the behaviour of a horse with a vice (sterotypical behaviour). My experience of having a pony of three months box rest who was stabled opposite a horse who weaved for England is that this is true - he never started to weave himself.
 
See post above mine:D

My most used tale goes like this: I had a little mare I bought as a three year old. One of the useful things I could teach her was travelling. I had a couple of excellent travellers and I'd stick her on the lorry with them so she learnt how to behave on the lorry, she learnt to come on and off the lorry in strange and exciting places or stand tied up to it or wait quietly whilst loaded on it. In short she was pretty perfect. When she was broken in and then started eventing she went out on her own in the lorry and behaved perfectly every time. Then her rider's experienced horse came back from injury and they started going to events together. Apart from him being on the lorry nothing changed for my mare, she was in the same stall, she had the same space, she was used to travelling with or without a companion from her time with me. The only thing was that the experienced horse would continually run his teeth down the checkerplate aluminium of the tack locker. By the end of the first time they went out together my mare was doing it too. She'd never done it before, she had to have learnt it from him.
 
I am aware that people think horses don't copy behavouirs, however this isn't the first 'vice' he's imitated. He was stabled next door to a mare that used to scrap her teeth on the door. After a few weeks he started doing it when ever she did, then began doing it for himself. About 3 weeks after I moved he completely stopped?

As for the cribbing, there is no reason why he would have suddenly started. And not only that but he doesn't suck air, he just imitates the motion. And I've only witnessed him do it when tied up alongside Dom, who does it constantly.

So IME i'd be inclined to believe he does learn behavouirs. Trouble is I can't separate them as their turned out together and there's no where for me to move one to.
 
In the past I had a horse who was a dreadful copycat. He would copy ANYTHING he could watch another horse do. I am sure he would have tried to copy cribbing if he'd seen it, though whether he would have got the whole performance off pat or would have stopped at "grabbing the edge" I don't know. He was very intelligent and learned some quite complex behaviours! But I have equally seen other horses NOT pick up vices that they were exposed to.
 
My opinion came from my own observations, before I looked into the scientific opinion. And yes, while horses copy behavior that is natural/ reactions, they don't copy something that is unnatural. Eg lots of young horses will copy my older mares reactions or behavior. Eg ignore the tractor, travel calmly etc. Yet none would copy her doing half-pass because that isn't natural. If she is having a prat about in the field, for instance doing a rodeo display, chances are the others copy. But they aren't really copying, because if she then does extended trot, the others may well canter along behind. They aren't copying as such, just following her reactions.
 
vhf said:
In the past I had a horse who was a dreadful copycat. He would copy ANYTHING he could watch another horse do. I am sure he would have tried to copy cribbing if he'd seen it, though whether he would have got the whole performance off pat or would have stopped at "grabbing the edge" I don't know. He was very intelligent and learned some quite complex behaviours! But I have equally seen other horses NOT pick up vices that they were exposed to.
Click to expand...

This is the same as Major, he seems to copy a lot of things.

But he has literally got to grabbing the edge and 'pulling' he doesn't suck the air?
 
I would disagree with them not imitating.

In a totally different scenario we had roughly 20horses out in separate padocks. One new horse got introduced who ate docks... the whole lot copied her. Bit coincidental to start on the day she started when they'd been there for three years prior never having touched one. You could even see them pulling faces doing it! This stopped when she went - same day!

So I'd agree that the environment plays a huge role and should be looked at first, however I don't agree that a horse cannot copy another behaviour.
 
My horse who is at livery is next door to a cribber and no one on the yard has started.
They do though all chew the fences more when they see the other horse cribbing, I think they don't get the sucking thing but they think the fence must be worth eating. Cribbing horse now wears a collar when turned out - and never looks bothered by it.
 
*hic* said:
I shall watch with interest as received wisdom is that horses don't learn vices from each other but are showing similar reactions to the same stresses. The scientists on here get quite vocal about it.

However, from my own observation, horses that have never shown any reaction to situations, when introduced to a horse that has a vice in those situations suddenly dsplay the same behaviour. We make use of horses' ability to learn positive behavour from others but science tells us horses can't learn undesirable behaviour.

I'd suggest that you separate Major from Domino and hope the cribbing stops again.
Click to expand...

Until two years ago I would have disagreed with you. I have stabled my horses over the years with others showing every "vice" possible, and none of mine copied them.
However, 4 years ago I bought an 18 month old, and he was stabled overnight for 2 years in the same line of boxes as a weaver/box walker/ windsucker with no problems at all. Then two years ago we had a bit of a yard move round to accommadate a horse needing a big stable, and mine was put diagonally opposite the horse with all the vices. And started weaving almost overnight. Maybe it was the new stable (although it had a better view), maybe he copied.
 
In my experience I think they can learn behaviours, or certain aspects of them. When I first moved my mare to my college yard (she was quite young) she was put next door to a cribber and after a couple of days I caught her having a go (grabbing, not air sucking) I flicked her on the nose and said "NO" and she's never done it since (even though she continued to be kept next to the cribber).

My filly also after a few days when she moved to mine spotted my TB nibbling his door (which he only does when bored/ when something different is happening) and unfortunately took to it aplomb and adores it- grrrrr. She was previously kept in a stone walled 20 acre field with no opportunity to chew wood that I am aware of. TB barely ever nibbles but she would do it regularly if allowed.

Now in both these instances something changed in that they were put in an unfamiliar situation, however they still distinctly copied the behaviour of the other horse, so whilst there might have been a trigger, the outcome was the same, and I can't think of any other explanation. Both horses were also relatively young at the time mare was 5 and filly 2.


ETA bringing it back to OP a bit. I don't know what the science says, but as above I believe I've seen it, but equally any ideas why he might have suddenly started copying since they've been together a while? anything changed?
 
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