Horse uncomfortable under saddle

[MiLeTa]

Hello knowledgable people of HHO- I've been lurking around for a while, but this is my first post, and I'm hoping for some advice about what could be wrong with my horse.

At the beginning of February he had a routine osteo appointment- she noted a bit of tension in hs poll, and that a couple of his lumbar vertbrae were a little 'out', but other than that she was happy with him. Trotted up very nicely after she had finished with him.
A week or so later, he started to seem a bit uncomfortable under saddle- pulling down a bit in walk, and a bit reluctant to go forward. He was booked in for a saddle fitting anyway, so stopped riding until this was done.

When the fitter came out, she sad that the saddle was too narrow at the front, so put in a wider gullet and adjusted the flocking. When riding with the fitter after the adjustments, he was much happier and moving more freely. Later that evening, my sharer was having a lesson and about 10 minutes in, the saddle started moving around- slightly side to side, and lifting at the back in trot. Horse was back to being unhappy, pulling down and not wanting to trot, so she stopped the lesson.

Booked another fitting appointment, and stopped riding in the saddle. Rode a couple of times in a bareback pad, and he seemed ok and seemed to be movng freely (although only in walk as he is not always trustworthy in the winter to stay calm going any faster!).

Second saddle fitting, she put the narrower gullet back in and readjusted the flocking- happy, forward horse, lovely free moving trot! We then tried some dressage saddles as I was looking to buy one, but he seemed to realy hate all three of them- contstantly pulling his head down, even when there was no contact to pull against, and a refusal to trot unless you really got after him, and even then dropping back to walk after a few strides. Decided to not buy a saddle as he seemed to hate them so much.

When ridden the next day in his GP, he was exactly the same- constantly pulling down, reluctance to trot and dropping back to walk after a few strides, and loking a bit 'pokey' in walk. He seemed happier when I was in a light seat. Later that day, tried him in the bareback pad, and this time he was the same as when ridden with the saddle. Tried him with a lighter rider (not that I am heavy, but she weighs about 6st!), and he was slightly better.

Trots up fine in hand on a hard surface, and is happy enough in himself and playing with his friends when turned out.

So, my question is, what could be causing this? Is it a back issue? Or SI? Or hocks? Or all of them?! Vet is coming next Tuesday, so hoping for some suggestions of what I should be asking them to look at/ things I could do to try to narrow things down.

Wow, that's turned out to be very long- wine/ coffee and cake for anyone who's made it this far! Thanks for reading!

 

[Zoeypxo]

How old is the horse and how long have you had him?
How is he to lunge? Does he go forwards without a rider ?

 

[Goldenstar]

It is a job for the vet it could be many things the back related stuff may well be secondary to another problem .
You are doing the right thing getting the vet to take a look .

 

[MiLeTa]

Thank you for your reply Zoeypxo (I'd quote, but I'm not sure how to do it!)

He's 14, and I've had him about 5 years.

He's quite difficult to lunge in the winter due to restricted turn out, so can just end up like flying a kite! I haven't tried him on the lunge yet as I was slightly worried about making anything worse if he did his usual wall of death impression.

I've walked and trotted him in hand and he seems to be ok- moving freely and happy to go up into and maintin trot

 

[Zoeypxo]

Thank you for your reply Zoeypxo (I'd quote, but I'm not sure how to do it!)

He's 14, and I've had him about 5 years.

He's quite difficult to lunge in the winter due to restricted turn out, so can just end up like flying a kite! I haven't tried him on the lunge yet as I was slightly worried about making anything worse if he did his usual wall of death impression.

I've walked and trotted him in hand and he seems to be ok- moving freely and happy to go up into and maintin trot

Ah you should see a reply button under the responses you get?

what you describe honestly could be one of 100 things, ask the vet for a performance work up,maybe check teeth too, mine pulls down when his teeth are bothering him. also have a good look at his feet and check hoof angles , NPA (negative palmer/plantar angles) can often cause back pain.

 

[MiLeTa]

Ah you should see a reply button under the responses you get?

what you describe honestly could be one of 100 things, ask the vet for a performance work up,maybe check teeth too, mine pulls down when his teeth are bothering him. also have a good look at his feet and check hoof angles , NPA (negative palmer/plantar angles) can often cause back pain.

Thank you!
He is due his teeth next month- dentist is coming towards the end of April, so will see if he can fit him in any sooner.

He was trimmed not that long ago and farrier didn't mention anything, but will definitely have a good look at angles and see if anything looks off

 

[sbloom]

I would see if fitter, osteo and vet can potentially work together, I find it incredibly helpful when facing issues like this. It might cost you a bit extra but could save you a lot of money and heartache long term.

I will say that riders can affect the horse more than you might think especially in a saddle that doesn't suit them - for instance even if lighter a rider that ends up in more of a chair seat because of wide pony/saddle type issues that can cause a lot more pressure under the seatbones towards the back of the saddle. Make sure your fitter sees the other rider in the saddle at least at some fittings and definitely when you face problems like this. If you have to wait longer see if you can get some help with groundwork to help him and keep him ticking over.

 

[Sossigpoker]

What you're describing sounds like back pain caused by hind limb lameness. The constant pulling down is him trying to relieve the strain on his back but as he's not going forward, that suggests hind limbs , possibly with SI involved. I wouldn't work him at all now and get a decent vet to do a loss of performance assessment.
Given his age I'd hazard a guess it could be the hocks.

 

[MiLeTa]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply- thought I would update after his vet visit yesterday.

After positive flexion tests on both hind legs, the vet x-rayed and he has bilateral hock arthritis. She also x rayed his stifles and thinks that these may need to be medicated as well. On her next visit, when she comes to do the treatment for his hocks, we will block the hocks to see if this is necessary.

Treatment-wise for his hocks, she has suggested steroids, but I am a bit worried about the risk of laminitis, so am thinking of going straight for arthrimid (sp?). Advice on this would be greatfully received!

She noted that he is a bit sore along his back (lumbar area), but it isn't clear if this has been caused by compensatory movement due to his hocks/ stifles, as she said she would have expected it to be more in the sacral area. If this does not resolve after the treatment(s), he will be going into horsepital for x-rays of his back to see what is going on.

 

[AmyMay]

Thanks so much for updating us. It’s always good to get a follow up to an original post.

Wishing you well with his treatmen.

 

[Zoeypxo]

do you know if the arthritis is mild/moderate and which joints are affected?
Is your vet familiar with arthramid?

alot of vets seem to like using steroid then following on with arthramid 4 wks later, this seems to have very good results.

I used Arthramid in the hocks on its own in August last year and haven’t had any issues since, continued full work including jumping. Prior to this i had used steroid in the hocks so i knew it was the correct joint/treatment regime.

there is quite a bit of information on here already with a few steroid vs arthramid debates and there are a few ‘arthritis in horses’ facebook groups with some good info too.

 

[MiLeTa]

She didn't really say anything about the severity, just that it would definitely need medicating. To be honest, she didn't really go into a lot of detail about the images, just showed me where the joint space has narrowed. I'm going to ask then to send me over the images so I can have a good look- I'm not brillant at reading x rays, but would like to be able to have a really good study of them with the help of some physiology books to try to get better!

From what I can remember, it looked to be the lower joint, and while there was a reasonable amount of space at the front, this tapered off towards the back of the joint space. Both legs looked to be at a similar stage, but his o/s has started to grow a small bone spur at the back.

The vet said that she is going to show the xrays to her colleagues and discuss treatment options with them- it's quite a large equine only practice, so I'm hopeful that if she herself isn't familiar with arthramid someone there will be. I've had a good read over some of the hock arthritis threads on here now (and taken lots of notes!), so feel a bit more able to have a vaguely sensible conversation about options when she gets back to me.

Glad to hear that the arthramid worked for yours. Reading over threads, what has pleasantly surprised me is the amount of horses who have come back into work following treatment- I was thinking that we would be quite limited in what we would be able to do work-wise (not that we do anything particularly exciting, but it's always nice to have the option )

 

[Zoeypxo]

She didn't really say anything about the severity, just that it would definitely need medicating. To be honest, she didn't really go into a lot of detail about the images, just showed me where the joint space has narrowed. I'm going to ask then to send me over the images so I can have a good look- I'm not brillant at reading x rays, but would like to be able to have a really good study of them with the help of some physiology books to try to get better!

From what I can remember, it looked to be the lower joint, and while there was a reasonable amount of space at the front, this tapered off towards the back of the joint space. Both legs looked to be at a similar stage, but his o/s has started to grow a small bone spur at the back.

The vet said that she is going to show the xrays to her colleagues and discuss treatment options with them- it's quite a large equine only practice, so I'm hopeful that if she herself isn't familiar with arthramid someone there will be. I've had a good read over some of the hock arthritis threads on here now (and taken lots of notes!), so feel a bit more able to have a vaguely sensible conversation about options when she gets back to me.

Glad to hear that the arthramid worked for yours. Reading over threads, what has pleasantly surprised me is the amount of horses who have come back into work following treatment- I was thinking that we would be quite limited in what we would be able to do work-wise (not that we do anything particularly exciting, but it's always nice to have the option )

ah ok! Ive used in the lower joints it worked really well.
someone else at the yard used it for lower and higher joints quite severe arthritis with huge bone spurs. The vet wasn’t quite sure if it would work due to how narrow the spaces were and how advanced the arthritis was but owner was willing to try it anyway. Its worked really well for him and he’s returned to soundness although is kept in light work due to how advanced the changes were.

its really good stuff. Good luck with yours. Answers are better than no answers

 

[Sossigpoker]

Steroid first and then if needed Arthmid. Your horse may respond well to the steroid alone. Unless your horse is over weight or has had laminitis, the risk of lami is quite small.
The SI/lumbar pain is most likely due to the hind limbs , this is very common.

Whichever medication you go for , your horse will need to be rehabbed properly, he needs to learn to push from behind and realise it won't hurt any more. This will help with his SI.

My cob has a nearly fused right hock but was pretty much instantly sound with Arthmid and is now in full work and sound.

Don't worry too much, these things are very common and there are lots of things your vet can do.

 

[sbloom]

I'm just going to add, it's easy to get focused on what's primary, what's secondary, instead of looking at why the hocks happened in the first place and what else might have been affected. A lot of people are increasingly focused on movement patterns and, with that, posture, and thinking that these injuries come from these, not that the hocks are injured and then cause the SI (or in other cases suspensories, KS and front feet issues). People like Educated Equine, Vet Physio Phyle and many others who have websites and FB pages would encourage you to look at it this way and base rehab around it, changing the posture and movement patterns, or using is as a lens through which to set up the right vet treatment within an overall approach.

Can't comment on the medical side but looks like you've had some good advice there , good luck.