horse unmanageable since out of work

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BUCKandREAR

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My TB has become dangerous to lead to and from the field, she will rear full height and *wave*, buck, and run around in circles at the end of a line, she does this with the yard staff also. She is currently turned out during the day and in of a night time. She has always been a bit of a loon but was fine so long as she was kept in work she would be alot easier to manage. Unfortunitly she can no longer be ridden (Kissing Spines) surgery is not an option (shes 8) long story.
However, even with a bridle, lunge line, hat, gloves etc shes still a danger to the person on the ground. She had me yesterday pretty much a near miss - the field where i have to walk her through is on a side of a hill so if she gets on the higher part than you and rears your basically trapped underneath waving legs from all directions.
Am going through a bit of a stressful time at the moment and this horse is not helping matters, the plan was to sell her spring just gone (before she was diagnosed) - and concentrate on my youngsters but with her condition my plans have had to change. Shes not so much nasty its just pure excitement, i have tried various ways of dealing with it from ignoring her behavior to giving a sharp tug on the line but it just made her go up more. Am nt going to lie she has made me nervous of her. She can be sweet and loving when shes in work but shes turned into a monster!! shes been out of work for 4 months, is now barefoot and is looking fantastic!! even her barefeet are coping really well.
Am hoping to have her living out 24/7 with the youngsters and hoping if she goes into winter in the condition shes in then she should be fine rugged up and fed. I hope she does settle, but its not looking good. She just hammers up and down the field most of the time and TBH my little girl whos 6 likes to potter about with me with her pony (who is kept with the youngsters) i really dont want to put her at risk if the TB is setting everything off all the time.
This horse is my responsibility and i know i need to do the right thing by her, also shes the type of horse that would hurt herself in a padded room wrapped up in cotton wool.
Pah why do plans never come together :rolleyes:
Any advice/suggestions?
 
You really need some Natural Horsemanship help. I have a 15.3h TBx who became dangerous to lead and so I started learning from Richard Maxwell and Monty Roberts. Go on to their web sites and get some help soon before you get hurt. Honestly, you won't believe the transformation when your mare realises she has to be respectful and lead nicely, I know she will with the right ground work.
Max sells his halters with a DVD on his web site http://www.richard-maxwell.com/
or go onto the Intelligent Horsemanship site and find a Recommended Associate near you who will come out and help you, or you can buy a Dually headcollar with DVD on there.
http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/
Good luck, it will work I promise you
 
She sounds similar to mine, she was injured and vets instructions were to turn her away for a month, she's fine staying out 24/7 and is in about 20 acres so plenty room for her to stretch her legs, she's in with 2 others. Can't you keep yours out? Magnesium based calmers do work well on mine too. Sorry not very helpful.
 
horseless jorge! said:
Ooh my, not sounding good. Is a free lunge every day out of the question also?
Have you ever led in a chifney?
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Yep, nowhere to free lunge and have tried in the past and she just goes bananas

muff747 said:
You really need some Natural Horsemanship help. I have a 15.3h TBx who became dangerous to lead and so I started learning from Richard Maxwell and Monty Roberts. Go on to their web sites and get some help soon before you get hurt. Honestly, you won't believe the transformation when your mare realises she has to be respectful and lead nicely, I know she will with the right ground work.
Max sells his halters with a DVD on his web site http://www.richard-maxwell.com/
or go onto the Intelligent Horsemanship site and find a Recommended Associate near you who will come out and help you, or you can buy a Dually headcollar with DVD on there.
http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/
Good luck, it will work I promise you
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I have got a control halter and a 12foot line which i use for my youngsters as they really respect it, but youngsters problem was being bargy and running through me, not rearing, never really had to deal with a rearer like this before, i tried a sharp tug when she was rushing round but this made her rear more - she doesnt tolerate poll pressure.

be positive said:
Is she turned out with others at the moment ?
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She currently has individual TO at yard and she can see them in the next field - they have a fence between them so can still groom and interact with each other.,
Will be kept with others when she comes home.

pinklilly said:
She sounds similar to mine, she was injured and vets instructions were to turn her away for a month, she's fine staying out 24/7 and is in about 20 acres so plenty room for her to stretch her legs, she's in with 2 others. Can't you keep yours out? Magnesium based calmers do work well on mine too. Sorry not very helpful.
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Magnesium supplement sounds good
 
I feel she will possibly improve when turned out with other horses.She sounds as if she is not settled whilst out then getting more stressed ready to come in .Could she not stay out 24/7 in this yard and have something in with her?
A chifney, as already suggested may help .
 
Sounds to me like this horse is going out of her mind with boredom.

Forget the chifney and bridle, get a rope head collar and a 12' line, when she rears the 12' line will stop you being pulled into and under her.

I'd do an hour or so ground work with her on a 22' line every day. You need to mentally tire this horse, rather than just making it fitter.
 
pastel said:
when we have horses coming to us to retire or rest sometimes they behave exactly as your mare is now, I'm sure if she had company and 24/7 turnout she would calm down straight away. can she not have any company? Is there a reason for you bringing her in at night now?
www.happyhorseretirementhome.co.uk
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She is due to move in a few weeks but planning to do it sooner as in next week, i really hope she will settle when shes out 24/7 with the others.
Yard rules as to bringing in at night am afraid :rolleyes:
Your retirement home looks beautiful :)
 
I feel your pain. I have a 13 year old that is now permanently retired after kissing spine. He is too dangerous to ride and too strong to walk in hand. He has been retired and turned away for a year and he still races around like a thing possessed. He is out all day with his companion and spends most of the time trying to make his friend run around or join in with play fighting.

I'm lucky that my stables adjoin the field so I just have to swing the door open and stand well back. I don't have enough land to leave him out 24/7.

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to be getting any more sensible with age. I'm using calmers in his handful of fast fibre to try and take the edge off but to be honest its just his temperament and it won't make a huge difference.
I would try the stronger non competition legal calmers that contain l-tryptophane or valerian rather than the magnesium based ones as magnesium will only work if they are lacking in it. I don't think they should be used long term though.

One thing I found that did work when leading my horse was his favourite treats. If he started getting anxious I would ask him to stand and regain his attention and give him a treat for standing still. He was then far more interested in what treats I may have than messing around. Probably not an ideal method but it got me safely home on a number of occassions when he was trying to do his best circus horse act.
 
MrsD123 said:
so she is a field onrnament, why are you bringing her in?
What do you think about pts?
......... difficult question, I know,
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She was only diagnosed a few weeks back but out of work for a number of months, we thought she maybe able to come back into work after a little while, then the x-rays where done.
We are staying till August - to do with contract of yard. She was on yard as i was using all the facilities and was working out good whilst she was in work.
Plan is to turn her away/retire with the youngsters, but may have to bbe alot sooner than planned.
I dont want anyone coming to harm whilst shes the way she is.

PTS was an option but would rather give her a chance to see how she copes when shes out with company 24/7.
 
I dare say giving the horse a chance to settle when turned out 24/7 is thinking of the horses welfare!
It hasn't been long enough for her to adapt to what sounds like a complete lifestyle change.
You might even find the young stock help her burn off any excess energy she feels she has.
Hope it all works out!
 
Is she getting any food apart from hay and grass? We had one who was into;lerant of sugar and cereals. She led out like a lamb in the morning but was awful to bring in at night, we think she needed a 'fix' of the food that was so bad for her. It may be worth a look at.
 
BUCKandREAR said:
I have got a control halter and a 12foot line which i use for my youngsters as they really respect it, but youngsters problem was being bargy and running through me, not rearing, never really had to deal with a rearer like this before, i tried a sharp tug when she was rushing round but this made her rear more - she doesnt tolerate poll pressure.
Rearing can be controlled whilst leading and maybe you need a longer line. You can get the behaviour under control whilst leading and handling, - that behaviour in the field is perfectly acceptable but not whilst she is being led.
Would your budget go as far as getting expert help with her?
Please consider contacting Intelligent Horsemanship.
http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/
On their website, they have a list of Recommended Associates and I'm sure there would be at least one near you who would be prepared to come and help you.
Please try to afford this, it will be money well spent. I don't know how much they charge but I'm sure it won't be an unreasonable amount.
Good luck
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YorksG said:
Is she getting any food apart from hay and grass? We had one who was into;lerant of sugar and cereals. She led out like a lamb in the morning but was awful to bring in at night, we think she needed a 'fix' of the food that was so bad for her. It may be worth a look at.
Click to expand...

She gets a few handfuls of chaff in the morning and at night, its only really so she can have her supplements.

She will need to be fed in winter with her being a TB and not being the best of doers. She is sensitive to any kind of cereals/mixes/anything molassed, even sugar beet sends her loopy.
 
Sorry if this is a numpty reply, I know nothing about kissing spines.
If she enjoys work, could you not break her to harness and drive her, having a ride and drive I know both options are great fun, or does KS mean no work at all
 
And there will always be important occasions when you need to get the horse out of the field for such things as farrier/trimmer or for vets visits, teeth rasping, injections etc. wouldn't there???
 
Seriously, what does the future hold for this horse? You have the best intentions, but she is unlikely to settle to a life of retirement nor as a companion. Someone is going to get hurt. If she were mine, it would be the end of the road for her, I would pts. Sorry.
 
Have you changed any of the brands of supplements, or even the chaff? I ask as sometimes things are added to stuff that you have used before and then discover that they have now got stuff in that the horse can't have. We use grass nuts to feed ours, or unmollassed sugar beet, we also could feed alfalfa to the intollerant one, as long as it was not molassed
 
bounce said:
One thing I found that did work when leading my horse was his favourite treats. If he started getting anxious I would ask him to stand and regain his attention and give him a treat for standing still. He was then far more interested in what treats I may have than messing around. Probably not an ideal method but it got me safely home on a number of occassions when he was trying to do his best circus horse act.
Click to expand...


This method usually works very well. I used it very successfully tonight when bringing in almost a ton of upset Westphalian. We have had to split the herd to put an injured horse and a companion in a small pen. Westphalian doesn't like the situation but an old-fashioned rope halter, a sharp elbow and a few treats combined with my voice aids stopped me mud ski-ing as she came in for her tea.
I would ditch the long line,hold a rope halter close to the nose, wrapping the rope round the nose if necessary, walk as close to the shoulder as poss, with elbow in her shoulder if need be and hold a schooling whip in front of her nose, tapping her chest with it if she gets too fast. Stand her up every now and again and give her a treat, it soon focusses the mind on the leader.
However I wouldn't worry about the contract with the yard, I'd get her home asap.

ETA, I would also insist on excellent manners whenever you do anything with her, so that it doesn't occur to her to play up.
 
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Oh my goodness! Some people are quick to write a horse off! My boy reared to and from the field after box rest. It was overexuberance&frustration,no malice at all. The fact it was dangerous for me was neither here nor there to him-he didn't realise,was just being a horse. However,he did need v firm handling so that he knew it was completely unacceptable&he
stopped,after a zerotolerance
approach from me. It's hard,I know,as first instinct is to move away(I did much hanging on to end of rope!) but u need to preempt her going up,get her before she goes right up-spot the signs. My boy headtossed,bounced on forehand& 'propped' a bit first(sometimes only for a second tho!) At which point I learnt to step right in,shove all my weight into his shoulder/foreribs,elbow hard in chest or shoulder,yank on rope(he had a French link in) &shout loudly at him! An old school instructor showed me this-essence is he invaded his space right back,was rude right back& 'roughed' him up right back-re-establish who's boss. It took me a while to take this proactive approach(rather than clinging on for grim death!) but u need to have mindset of 'How dare you,little bugger!' rather than 'oh no,here we go again!'. More it happened,more angry I got at situation&that made me braver. He crapped himself once the worm(me!) turned! I agree with post above,insist on good manners(&complete deference) from her at all times. My boy was gelded late,is very coltish&dominant &needs firm handling to ensure he knows his place! He doesn't do it now-I think u can sort this-she may stop once she is settled/turned out anyway. Give it time,get v tough with her and most importantly, stay safe(always wear hat,like you said). I lost sleep at the time,worrying he'd changed into some tyrant monster&would hurt someone-we cured it tho. Incidentally,chifney didn't stop him,nor rope round nose. I was told 2try(but didn't need to,as he stopped) rope or chain thru mouth,funny contraption that has a metal ring that bangs down into their nose if they rear and mini mars bars(not healthy diet for a horse,I know,but apparently their horse was so wrapped up chewing/sucking ecstatically on it on way to/from field,forgot to rear!) Similar to post above about Westphalian? Good luck&stay safe!
 
Ditto Pearlsasinger, you need to be close to the horse with a short rope.

I would lead with a bridle on with a lunge line attached through the first bit ring and clipped to the second ring. Hold the lunge line just behind the bit so you have hold both sides of the mouth. Put your elbow into the horses neck and keep it bent. If the neck is bent then it cannot rear. It has to get straight to rear. As soon as a horse gets a bit of extra rope then you are no match for them in strength no matter what you have them in.

I used to use the end of the lunge line to flick the hind quarters as encouragement to keep my horse marching alongside me as if he should drop behind me then the trouble would start. You have to be right against the shoulder. The more the concentration is on you the easier it gets.

Alternatively, if you are in a field bringing him in and it is safe to do so then as soon as he goes to mess you around, send him on round you lunging so everytime he misbehaves he has to do some work.

Good luck, and hope you can get him turned out 24/7 as soon as possible.
 
Forgot to say 2things; some days it didn't go so well&i had to let go of rope(I wasn't 'winning'!) but I persevered. Also,I talked/sang to him all way to/from field (bored him out of rearing?!? Ha ha!) and changed voice to v stern if he did anything except walk nicely. He is 16.3h and it wasn't enjoyable whilst it was going on but he's a lamb now(tho a potentially excitable one!). Posts done on phone,so can't review them-hope they make sense!
 
How come the operation isn't an option?

Can't she be turned out full time in s herd?

Maybe find a companion home for her where she can live out.
Or worse case pts.
She isn't happy at the moment, if she won't settle, it may be the kindest thing.
 
How about trying one of these.

I have personal experience of this having had to put it on my horse for walking in hand exercise whilst on box rest. He was rearing on me previous to wearing this, and his next few efforts were very slight in comparrison to how they were without the headcollar. If bangs on the nose when they play up and if they rear and you pull on the heacollar with the rope it will put pressure onto the nose which will make controlling them a lot easier. http://www.worldwidetack.com/stephens-controller-headcollar-1in-p-144.html

You could also try a chifney, but always use it on top of a headcollar so when you come to tie up yclip the lead rope to the headcollar.
 
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