Horse with Shivers/ Very Stressed Horse!

[llohcins]

I have a really lovely ISH who has a mild shiver. He's always been a sensitive soul but over the past 2/3 months his reactions are getting so extreme. He is terribly sensitive to noise, people, anything that he isn't sure of - he totally over reacts! A friend snapped a carrot the other day and you would have thought a bomb had gone off! This can be in the stable, field and out riding and it seems to be getting worse. He can be absolutely fine if nothing triggers is but once he goes the adrenaline kicks in and he looses it. The shiver itself physically doesn't seem to be any worse but I wonder if the behaviour is related or something else is going on? He is in regular work 5-6 days a week, gets daily turnout and is a good weight etc. He is such a friendly lovely boy and no nasty bone in his body so these are genuine reactions but i'm at a loss as to what to do next...anyone had anything similar or any thought. I'm open to all suggestions and comments.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I had a WelshxTB who had similar reactions to noise, I remember the day a child ran down the yard, shaking a tube of Smarties, you would have thought the roof had fallen in on top of her!

It took a long time to work out what was causing her problems (there were other behavioural things but all stress/over stimulation related). She also had a persistent cough. Eventually we realised that she was completely intolerant of cereals and refined sugar. She was genuinely like a different horse without them

 

[ycbm]

Agree with PaS on cereals/sugar/alfalfa. I have one who is completely wired if he gets any form of grain or any amount of alfalfa.

This kind of behaviour is also typical of horses which need a lot of vitamin E. In theory you have him on plenty because of the shivers, but maybe not enough? I'd be going for 10,000iu a day.

 

[llohcins]

Thanks for your comments re the Shivers. I agree re feed, in fact he isn’t on any hard feed at the mo as I am struggling to find anything he will tolerate. Interesting regarding the vit e levels - do you have any idea of the best supplement to be getting this volume into him?

 

[SEL]

Thanks for your comments re the Shivers. I agree re feed, in fact he isn’t on any hard feed at the mo as I am struggling to find anything he will tolerate. Interesting regarding the vit e levels - do you have any idea of the best supplement to be getting this volume into him?

It needs to be a straight vitamin E supplement not one with selenium. Natural vitamin E is better absorbed and seems to be mainly sold online. I used the powdered oil from Forage Plus.

There is a U.S. vet called Dr Brenda Bishop who did research into pathogens (Lyme, bartonella etc) & their impact on the horse. Shivers was one of the consequences of infection, so if your horse has ever been in an area with ticks it is worth googling her. The webpage is not easy to follow!!!

 

[JillA]

Try her on magnesium - Mg deficiency presents as excessive spooking because Mg blocks the action of adrenaline. Cheap as chips (MagOx on ebay) and will make a difference in a couple of weeks if deficiency is the problem. Always worth trying for elimination purposes if nothing else

 

[ycbm]

Thanks for your comments re the Shivers. I agree re feed, in fact he isn’t on any hard feed at the mo as I am struggling to find anything he will tolerate. Interesting regarding the vit e levels - do you have any idea of the best supplement to be getting this volume into him?

Yes the cheapest by a long way is Equimins oil. Some people find it messy and difficult but for a horse on that much, the price difference should be worth it.

I would start with 10ml, which is 10,000 iu, and see if you can reduce it to find the level he actually needs.



..

 

[FabioandFreddy]

The most cost effective vit e i found was Progressive Earth. 10,000 iu as a minimum for a horse with Shivers (my old boy had it). As above, the normal equestrian vitamin e supps have selenium added which can be toxic if overdosed and would be if feeding the required amount of vit e from these brands.

 

[Leo Walker]

The most cost effective vit e i found was Progressive Earth. 10,000 iu as a minimum for a horse with Shivers (my old boy had it). As above, the normal equestrian vitamin e supps have selenium added which can be toxic if overdosed and would be if feeding the required amount of vit e from these brands.

Yup the progressive earth is the cheapest when worked out on a daily dosage basis

 

[ycbm]

Yup the progressive earth is the cheapest when worked out on a daily dosage basis

This is at least the fourth time on at least three different threads that you've mislead people about this. Several of us have corrected you.You've been given the figures and yet you keep repeating it. Please stop confusing people.



These are TODAYS figures using the cheapest per unit pack size. Smaller packs cost more per unit. Equimins has no postage costs, Progressive Earth postage is additional.

Equimins oil £100 per bottle 1000iu per gram c900g in a bottle, 11.1p per 1000iu


Progressive Earth natural vitamin E 2kg £125 1105iu per 3.25g. 680 1000iu units in a pack. 18.3 p per 1000iu


Synthetic powder is available for about half the price but you have to feed twice as much to get the same bio available level, so it works out the same price and is pointless.

Forageplus powder vitamin E is more expensive per pack but works out cheaper at 15p per 1000iu because it has 1000iu of vitamin E every 2g.


Equimins oil is by a long way the cheapest way to feed Vitamin E on a daily basis





PS can someone weigh their empty bottle and the full one when they next get a new bottle? I've only just realised that Equimins is by weight of oil and of course oil weighs less than water so it's not 1g per ml. I've done the above calculation on the weight of olive oil, which I'm sure is less dense than the vitamin E oil, so 11.1p is the maximum it could possibly be and it's probably actually less.

 

[llohcins]

It needs to be a straight vitamin E supplement not one with selenium. Natural vitamin E is better absorbed and seems to be mainly sold online. I used the powdered oil from Forage Plus.

There is a U.S. vet called Dr Brenda Bishop who did research into pathogens (Lyme, bartonella etc) & their impact on the horse. Shivers was one of the consequences of infection, so if your horse has ever been in an area with ticks it is worth googling her. The webpage is not easy to follow!!!

Thank you I was actually looking at the one from Forage Plus this morning

 

[llohcins]

Yes the cheapest by a long way is Equimins oil. Some people find it messy and difficult but for a horse on that much, the price difference should be worth it.

I would start with 10ml, which is 10,000 iu, and see if you can reduce it to find the level he actually needs.



..

Thank you for the guidance re amounts, i'm going to look into this properly today!

 

[SEL]

I'm sure you've done your own googling, but I found these two sites the most useful. Both vets are also incredibly helpful when contacted speculatively. I have two horses with PSSM and one who also shows minor signs of shivers, so my interest was in making sure I have everything managed as well as possible.

https://cvm.msu.edu/research/facult...ics/valberg-laboratory/information-on-shivers

http://www.equineshivers.com/

 

[llohcins]

I'm sure you've done your own googling, but I found these two sites the most useful. Both vets are also incredibly helpful when contacted speculatively. I have two horses with PSSM and one who also shows minor signs of shivers, so my interest was in making sure I have everything managed as well as possible.

https://cvm.msu.edu/research/facult...ics/valberg-laboratory/information-on-shivers

http://www.equineshivers.com/

Thank you so much!!

 

[vhf]

I have one who's highly reactive to sudden or loud noises and certain sudden movements, but in her case it is related to a traumatic injury. Once the adrenaline's flowing it takes less and less to affect her. I haven't found anything that helps apart from time and patience and she was previously unflappable, so it's probably not a medical/feed thing for her.
My rambling point being, could something have happened to him, to make his go-to behaviour suddenly worse? Or could it be eyes, or ears, or even pain related? The shiver could almost be a red herring in that case.

 

[llohcins]

I have one who's highly reactive to sudden or loud noises and certain sudden movements, but in her case it is related to a traumatic injury. Once the adrenaline's flowing it takes less and less to affect her. I haven't found anything that helps apart from time and patience and she was previously unflappable, so it's probably not a medical/feed thing for her.
My rambling point being, could something have happened to him, to make his go-to behaviour suddenly worse? Or could it be eyes, or ears, or even pain related? The shiver could almost be a red herring in that case.

It could be something that’s upset him as he is very sensitive. We had to move to a big livery yard last year and there is a lot going on so perhaps he just isn’t feeling settled or something has happened that I don’t know about. He was fine at the yard and seemed to like it but the last 2-3 months have got progressively worse. Trying to find a smaller yard again but proving a challenge! I’ve had absolutely everything checked so don’t think it’s a pain issue. Thanks so much for your ideas.

 

[llohcins]

Yes the cheapest by a long way is Equimins oil. Some people find it messy and difficult but for a horse on that much, the price difference should be worth it.

I would start with 10ml, which is 10,000 iu, and see if you can reduce it to find the level he actually needs.

..

Sorry to bother you again but...say if I try to reduce it...how will I know exactly how much he needs unless I keep getting bloods retested? Will it have a negative affect if I give him too much? Thanks!

 

[ycbm]

I would judge it by his behaviour. I worked out that mine needed a lot more in winter because of the way their muscles felt and how much energy they seemed to have.

I think it's difficult to overdose, though they do store it in the liver, I read.

 

[Xanthoria]

seconding the recommendation for magnesium too!

 

[llohcins]

Hi all,

So i've purchased the vit e supplement as discussed but I cant for love nor money get the great big beast to eat it!! I've tried three different chaffs, fast fibre, mint, garlic etc and he wont touch it. He cant have anything sugary to disguise it as he is extremely sugar intolerant. Any ideas what I can add to convince him to eat it!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Hi all,

So i've purchased the vit e supplement as discussed but I cant for love nor money get the great big beast to eat it!! I've tried three different chaffs, fast fibre, mint, garlic etc and he wont touch it. He cant have anything sugary to disguise it as he is extremely sugar intolerant. Any ideas what I can add to convince him to eat it!

Ours eat it in dampened Agrobs haycobs and they wolf it down, we assume that means that they are in need of it!

 

[llohcins]

Ours eat it in dampened Agrobs haycobs and they wolf it down, we assume that means that they are in need of it!

Might have to give them a try...he can smell it a mile off if there is anything different in his feed!

 

[JillA]

Bran. Was recommended to me by Sarah Braithwaite at Forageplus and she was right - my two only started to eat their mineral supplement once I added it to a little damp bran. Yes it is starch but they only need a handful

 

[ycbm]

Spillers Speedy Mash is very low calorie and very effective because it swells so much and you can hide it in half a bucket full of food that's only got the calories in it of a fisful of other stuff.