Horsebox help - starting problem

[Louby]

I have a Leyland Daf 150 P reg which has never let me down. I took it to the garage for a slight oil leak, didnt think they would have it long so forgot to mention the isolator, well now it is completely dead, as in nothing, no lights on the dashboard, nothing. Camera switched on for a few minutes but that was all, no noise when turning the key, no attempt to start, just totally dead. The only light that came on was the tacho light.
Its been at the garage nearly 5 weeks!! I wasnt concerned as Ive not needed it and its out of the busy yard so suited me tbh but the mechanic seems to think its either the starter motor or a wire somewhere and has an auto electrician coming and Im thinking £££££££ Ive asked if it could just be the batteries need charging but he said they have had it connected to a vehicle to jump start it but its still dead. Im no mechanic but it seems really odd it was fine getting to the garage and the fact its stood for so long makes me think its just the batteries. Im thinking of ringing in the morning to say I will come and collect the batteries and charge them myself just to see, but I feel like a bit of an idiot really as they are the mechanics not me.
What do you think?

 

[eggs]

Sounds like it could be battery.

I had a Cargo that decided not to start at the petrol station. Absolutely nothing, just a click when I turned the key. Luckily someone at the station advised to crawl under the lorry and hit the starter motor with a lump of wood whilst someone else turned the key - do make sure it is in neutral! This did the trick.

 

[WelshD]

I would also say battery. If it were the starter motor you normally would hear a whizzing sound when you turn the key.

Could it be that the vehicle needs something more powerful to jump start it?

 

[Louby]

Thanks Eggs, I really hope it is. Seems so odd it was fine when we took it in bar the oil leak and now its totally dead which Id understand if it was the batteries. Im so aaaaaaagh as nothings straightforward, could have cried when he mentioned auto electrician. Mines not clicking or anything, its doing nothing

 

[muckypony]

Does it have an immobiliser? When mine went dead it was jump started (wrongly - by a man may I add!) and it messed up the eletrics. It didn't do anything when I turned the key except the little immobiliser light flashed.

 

[Louby]

I would also say battery. If it were the starter motor you normally would hear a whizzing sound when you turn the key.

Could it be that the vehicle needs something more powerful to jump start it?

Thanks, its at a specialist HGV place so I would have expected them to use something big enough to start it as mine was one of the smaller vehicles there. We have rang them and said we will come and take the batteries and charge them ourselves and he immediately said oh we were going to do that in the morning anyway?? Hmmmmm

 

[Louby]

Does it have an immobiliser? When mine went dead it was jump started (wrongly - by a man may I add!) and it messed up the eletrics. It didn't do anything when I turned the key except the little immobiliser light flashed.

I think yours may be a lot newer than mine, it has an isolator but not an immobiliser or at least I dont think it has Thanks for replying

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

If they are a proper outfit then they surely would have used a 24 volt jump pack.
OP, am amazed they tried to start a dead truck by hooking to another
Yes, get your batteries charged on decent charger which may take 48 hours or so. Then get the garage to drop test them both (they should know this!) BEFORE putting them back in your box to start it.
Let us know how things go x

 

[muckypony]

I think yours may be a lot newer than mine, it has an isolator but not an immobiliser or at least I dont think it has Thanks for replying

It may well be! X reg I think.

If they are talking about an auto electrician that will cost a silly amount, tell them to poke it, there are mobile people that will come out with the computers to test for faults, a lovrky bloke sorted mine out there and then and it only cost me £60 - not bad I thought considering he came to me, detected fault and fixed it.

 

[PeterNatt]

Just check the voltage across each of the batteries. If it is under 13 Volts the batteries have had it. When were they last changed?

 

[cundlegreen]

Charge your batteries up, then check them with a voltimeter. They should each show 12.63 or more to be able to swing the stater motor over. I've had this problem, and one battery was getting old, and draining the newer one. I've had a lot of battery trouble recently with my daf, so bought two new batteries, problem solved. The other drain that you can get in a daf is the radio which used to drain my batteries. We took out the fuse and now all is well.

 

[Louby]

Thanks everyone. Im annoyed as it went with just an oil leak from the sump, its always been an excellent starter and Im convinced this starting issue is the batteries being drained by the tacho and the camera as they didnt use the isolator. TBF I didnt mention the isolator as I didnt expect it to be there that long so partly my fault really BUT it didnt have a starting issue before it went. He said he would charge the batteries tomorrow and did admit that when I said I wasnt in a rush for it, they didnt rush at all, so it has just stood there.

 

[Louby]

If they are a proper outfit then they surely would have used a 24 volt jump pack.
OP, am amazed they tried to start a dead truck by hooking to another
Yes, get your batteries charged on decent charger which may take 48 hours or so. Then get the garage to drop test them both (they should know this!) BEFORE putting them back in your box to start it.
Let us know how things go x

Thanks, am I right in thinking that if the batteries have fully drained, they wouldnt start it if jumped from another vehicle, is that right? I was that surprised it wouldnt start I asked to try it myself today, he must have thought I was a nutter lol but there was nothing when I turned the key

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Thanks, am I right in thinking that if the batteries have fully drained, they wouldnt start it if jumped from another vehicle, is that right? I was that surprised it wouldnt start I asked to try it myself today, he must have thought I was a nutter lol but there was nothing when I turned the key

Sorry, didn't get back on here last night.

Yes, totally correct in that a dead one will need charging & wont be jumped.

 

[Louby]

Thanks for getting back to me. Im sure this is whats happened, just annoyed Im in this position and cant believe Im having to tell these 'mechanics' to charge the batteries, surely thats the first thing they should try. The guy seems lovely, was reccomended to me and hes very appologetic for having it so long but Ive lost faith now and feel like Im coming across as a typical worrying and mithering female who thinks she knows his job, which I certainly dont lol.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Hiya, just remember to get them to drop test both AFTER they have been charged (this tests to see if the batteries will hold the charge).
If they wont, then you will have to bite bullet and replace them & use your old truck ones for electric fencing.....

 

[cundlegreen]

Hiya, just remember to get them to drop test both AFTER they have been charged (this tests to see if the batteries will hold the charge).
If they wont, then you will have to bite bullet and replace them & use your old truck ones for electric fencing.....

The old big lorry batteries last ages for electric fencing. Look on the bright side!

 

[Louby]

lol, I will be fuming if theyve 'killed' them as this will become one expensive oil leak and just to add to my luck, we have mains powered electric fencing ha ha

 

[terry2e0fmb]

It's prob the battery's the plates get damaged when stood for long periods try charging at home
You can get them regenerised at a good battery company
Hope all goes well for you regards terry

 

[conniegirl]

How old are the batteries?
I had one that was so old the internal plates collapsed and my lorry just wouldn't start. You couldnt jump it either.
New batteries are not that expensive. the one for my lorry cost £80.

A completely flat battery will not jump off a car or truck as it will need some charging first. A 24V battery will not jump from a 12V one and I find it doesnt work the other way round either (my lorry is weird and only has a 12V battery but its handy for when I leave the isolator off.)

 

[Louby]

Thanks again for all your replies.
The batteries are about 2 years old, it has 2, side by side. Im sure they would have tried to jump it off something capable as my lorry was one of the smallest there, its a HGV garage. Hes supposed to be charging them today so think we will ring again tomorrow and if they havent then we will go and get them and charge them ourselves. Id have rather just done this then at least I know theyve been done but he insisted he would do it today.

 

[Dave the dog]

Simple really Louby, You drove it to the garage, you drive it away again. It's your mechanics duty to solve the problem of starting not yours. As I'm sure he will.

 

[Louby]

I wish I could Dave the dog and I really hope its sorted soon. I only asked the question as it drove there no issues, never has had starting issues but has stood for weeks so the batteries would be my first thought, yet they were saying it needs an auto electrician but when asked it seems the batteries hadnt been checked. It went for an oil leak but now has a starting issue. I just wanted to see if anyone else thought the issue could simply be the batteries as this could end up costing me loads as I havent got a clue mechanical wise when it may not need too.

 

[ycbm]

Simple really Louby, You drove it to the garage, you drive it away again. It's your mechanics duty to solve the problem of starting not yours. As I'm sure he will.

Leaving him to it is a recipe for a potentially huge bill. We left our old Lorry at a garage to fix the brakes once, and when we collected it they presented us with a bill for twice what the Lorry was worth! The brakes worked though.

OP I surprised that your mechanics attempted to jump start it, they should have had a commercial vehicle super booster charger to start it with. My OH has one and he's not a mechanic even. I'd be as wary as you about it needing an auto electrician, most decent mechanics can fix most starting problems without an auto electrician.

 

[Dave the dog]

Your starting battery has a limited number of cycles ie can go from fully charged to less than 20% charge about 25 times. after that you will have starting problems. The utility battery, the one that runs interior lights, camera, ramp will be a deep cycle cycle battery and can go from fully charged to flat (below 20%) 50 times plus depending on the quality of the battery some can cycle more than 100 times. These battery's should not be used for starting. There is an isolater to prevent the utility battery draining the starting battery. Sometimes a split charge diode is fitted which does this automatically. These systems are very robust. Your batteries are 2 years old? seems unlikely the utility battery is a gonner. Uk batteries will supply a starting battery rated at 90ish amp hrs for about 80 quid, the higher the amp hrs the better. a good deep cycle battery at 110 amp hrs could be about £150 . Shop around. If your truck doesn't have an electric ramp you may use something called a leisure battery with less amp hrs, these battery's wont tolerate many cycles so always a good idea to have a solar panel charger on the roof or attatched to a clean window. (maplins cost around £50 for a good one).
Your mechanic has a duty of care and maybe concerned or confused by the battery set up hence the auto electrician. It's not a good idea to jump start trucks with twin battery systems because of risking damage to the alternator or protection systems, the starting battery needs to be disconected and charged for a day or two depending on age and size ( amp hrs). Good luck I'm sure it will work out, and if you do need new battery's better to find out now rather than be stranded in the woods.

 

[Louby]

Thanks Dave the dog. Im just aaaaaagh as it started fine when it went and I was confused as to why they didnt suspect the batteries had gone flat first, considering it had stood there for 5 weeks without the isolator on. Each time Ive rang Ive asked couldnt it be the batteries and Ive had we've tried to jump it, inspected underneath for wire breaks, tested this that the other and Im now starting to get twitchy re the cost when all it may need is the batteries charging., He agreed to charge the batteries after we called up on Wed to take them ourselves to charge so we will have to wait and see now I havent used these guys before, they were recommended to me and genuinely seem nice.

 

[mcnaughty]

I have to say that I am pretty shocked by the garage's response to this issue. I recently made a very stupid blonde mistake by leaving the connection between my leisure and lorry batteries connected over night and the lorry batteries were drained by a new fridge I was testing! I know!! I know!! Anyway, I learnt my lesson. So quite frankly, if your battery is even slightly below charged it will do nothing. click on the key and that is about it. I was told that lorries need a LOT of juice to start. I started mine with a 10 second attachment to a mains connected booster charger - looked a bit like this

http://www.gumtree.com/p/other-powe...rry-van-tractor-garage-power-tools/1127952439

The lorry garage should know that batteries drain on a lorry if left for that bloody long - you should not be feeling guilty about not telling them! I personally would be asking the question - well didnt you know that would happen or did you not turn the engine over from time to time?

If you are sure the batteries are the age they are then I assume they should be good. So they need to get off their bums and charge them up or try one of those things above. You really might need a man to go and have a word. Dont you know anyone with lorries or farming equipment or similar that could have a word on your behalf. Sounds to me like they know they are in the wrong but are trying to hide this fact! As for bringing in an electrical mechanic - rubbish! They should do the work themselves!

Best of luck!

 

[Dave the dog]

hi louby Is it Leyland Daf series 45. range FA45.150 12v. If so google Tayna batteries put in make and model you will find Enduroline 12v 96ah 750 amp for £83.95
5 weeks drain will kill a starter battery I hope they fixed the oil leak.

 

[Louby]

Thanks again, Im actually feeling a but more peed off about this now I will be fuming if I have to buy new batteries because of them. Its so difficult when you know little about these things to start with, hence this post as I didnt want to look completely stupid. My hubby has come with me and now rings this guy but sadly he knows nothing about mechanics either lol. On a plus note we know where the oils coming from, it was pretty obvious though as it can be seen all over the sump. Apparantly the sump has gone porous?? and needs replacing. If I could start it, I would just go and get it and take it somewhere else. Ironic thing is we took it there as our usual mechanic takes weeks doing jobs so we was hoping it would get done a lot quicker here

 

[Louby]

hi louby Is it Leyland Daf series 45. range FA45.150 12v. If so google Tayna batteries put in make and model you will find Enduroline 12v 96ah 750 amp for £83.95
5 weeks drain will kill a starter battery I hope they fixed the oil leak.

Yes its one of those I think, its a 10t wagon though, not sure if that makes a difference. Thanks for finding these for me.