Horses fighting- what to do?

[SALLYT]

Right this is the situation, new horse ( mine) been in a paddock for just under 4 weeks with 4 other geldings and a llama.The first week had a nasty bite on his face, the second week a nasty bite on his side, which was bit again afew days later. Things settled down, then another gelding was put in the same age as mine just 5, I left them yesterday sparing with each other didn't look particulary nasty so thought that they would settle as then he was rubbing his head on this others quarters.

Last night went up and he was ready to come in which is unlike him, anyhow he has a huge bite on his neck not far from his throat and it is nasty , lots of red raw flesh showing.
Obviously very painful as I had trouble trying to clean it.

I spoke to YO who suggested moving him out into another paddock which I did this morning with a mixed herd just had a phone call to say his is galloping up and down the fence getting very stressed, so she has bought him in.

His problem is that he attaches himself to a horse and is like its shadow, he was the same with the llama, where ever it went he would follow, so perhaps the horse got peed off and went for him.

So what do I do, he's obviously unhappy in his new paddock and can't be stabled forever, do I put him back in his old paddock where he was settled but kept getting bitten, I don't want to. We are unsure who bites him as it would appear that it is only him who gets bitten non of the other horses do they seem to accept the pecking order.

I am at a loss what to do, he's very thin skinned and marks easy and I hate to see him with all these bites on him, he needs to stop latching on to something and give them space but how do I teach him that- poor baby.

Any ideas on what to do, the YO is going to think about it and try and sort something out , but what I don't know.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Miss Tipps]

Could he not be turned out with just the llama?

 

[SALLYT]

Well I have thought about that will chat to the YO later, but I want him to be able to go out with other horses and know how to behave- he's not naughty or nasty just seems insecure.

I don't know if by putting him with just the llama is just bypassing the problem. If I ever wnated to move yards I'd have to buy the damned llama!

 

[ajn1610]

4 weeks isn't very long they are probably still establishing a pecking order. He is still young too, so he maybe needs to learn how to behave in a herd?
My old pony was a pain as you described and didn't know when to back off so he had a couple of nasty kicks. It is awful to have the feeling they aren't safe in the field.
Unless you are going to turn him out on his own you'll just need to persevere I'd get a fly rug with a hood to protect him from bites and leave him consistently in one group to see if he settles. It doesn't sound as if they are getting dangerous with each other so unless you feel he is really at risk I'd just give it some more time then if it doesn't resolve itself you can try in another field.

 

[SALLYT]

Thanks ajn1610, i did think about buying a fly rug to give him some protection and agree he has to learn how to behave.

Its just awful seeing him with bloody bites all over his body so hopefully the fly rug will help him.

As it stands at the moment moving him into a different paddock with other horses hasn't worked.

 

[ajn1610]

Poor you and poor pony (hugs)

 

[ladyt25]

We have to separate any new 'additions' to our lot for about 4 weeks before introducing them and even then sparks fly! If only 5 he may not have much knowledge of how pecking orders work and is going to end up learning the hard way. unfortunately some horses will always be bullied, they have to learn to keep out of the way!

Once he is fully accepted into the 'herd' and learns his place then the bullying is likely to lessen but I wouldn't suggest moving him from different groups of horses. Let him establish himself with one lot. We still ofetn find our lowest herd member with various bites on him. They look sore and nasty but he never is that bothered and we just treat each one and he still gets himself in the thick of things (in fact i think he gets them from playing) he's 24!

 

[Kallibear]

Agreed with ajn1610 - it just sounds like them sorting out herd positions. It's also possible he's play fighting and it's going a bit too far.

As long as he is just getting bitten, not getting kicked, I'd just leave him to it and let it sorts itself out. Having him on his own isn't the answer (plus I think keeping horses on their own is cruel) as he'll just become WORSE at socialising and get all the more beaten up when he has to rejoin a herd. Being kept on their own, esp young horses, just produces a socially inept, lonely outcast, as I discovered when Kalli arrived

A fly rugs is good idea in the meantime to cover him up, but make sure it doesn't make things worse - some horses are freaked by horses in big white rugs and really go for them!

Other option, if you know who's doing the beating up, is to put him seperately in with the known agressor and give them a week or so together. Fighting tends to stop when there's nothing to fight about (no herd!) and they will bond because they have to.

As for the clinginess to one horse in particualar - that's common when young horses are a bit stressed about the herd dynamic. Sounds like he's found a potenential friend amounst a herd of rather scary new horses and he's gonna stick with him through hell and high water, cos he's 'safe'. Kalli glued herself to Pink when she first arrived as she was the only one who wasn't mean to her. It wore off after a while as she relaxed and learnt how to interact with the rest of the herd.

 

[SALLYT]

Thanks LadyT and Kallibear,I know you are right he has to learn and it looks like he'll learn the hard way.

I am going to gamble with the fly rug just to give him some protection, but when I do I will make sure I watch for a while just to see what happens.

I agree that keeping him on his own isn't the answer albeit he could have touched others over the fence, but is more natural in a herd.

I did think that it had all settled down but there was obviously a problem yesterday.Yes hooves fly but he seems to be able to get out of the way and I have seen him return the favour.

His clinginess I think is the cause of these "fights" because he doesn't want to let any other horse near his friend and that's when the fighting starts. He is aware of the pecking order to some degree because we have another gelding in there who has only recently been gelded and TBF he keeps himself to himself, but when he mooches past mine makes a swift exit.
Just needs to learn it with the others.

ajn1610 - thanks for the hugs , I'll pass it on to the big soft lad.

 

[BethH]

My youngster went through this at a previous yard but has now grown into herd leader from age 7! Think he learnt his lessons the hard way, he got terrible bites and scrapes on him, he was so over friendly he just didn't understand go away, i would frequently be in tears and it went on for the whole time he was stabled there (4-5mths) simply because the herd had very little turnout and not much grass so they had nothing to do but have a pop at each other!

I would do it differently now, any new horses into my herd are put in a penned off area (electric fence) in a field with plenty of grass with the herd, that way they can touch each other and meet each other as they are not entirely separated but it isn't quite so full on. They are then slowly introduced, in your situation, I would probably find 1 other streetwise but kind older horse and let them graze together for a few days and once settled gradually reintroduce the herd, this seems to work well for me but some horses do take considerably longer than others to settle. Your yard owner sounds like she is prepared to try and sort things out which is great so chat to her and see if she can recommend another horse for him to be with until he relaxes, if you think about it his whole life has just changed, he has lost his friends, family and home and has to start again, it's not surprising he is a bit clingy, I would be too!

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

I'd pull up a chair, grab a thermos of coffee and sit and watch the herd dynamics for an hour or 2. You might get a better idea of where the problem lies and who starts fights and so on.

 

[flyingfeet]

Sounds like he doesn't know how to behave in a herd. The fact that he doesn't have the bites on his bottom, means he wasn't retreating whne they bit him.

The fly rug will help, but if he is really annoying they will rip and bite through it (my sweet itch youngster used to think he could rub on the others.... muppet!)

The fact that he isn't getting kicked would indicate that his is annoying rather than challenging the leader or having major clashes. Also he is clearly dopey for not moving faster.

I would not suggest putting him on his own unless its stopping you riding or he starts to get kicks. It sounds like he has never been in a herd and really could do with knowing how to be a horse.

This is why all our youngsters go in a big herd and get beaten up, makes the much better characters and all then respect both humans and horses personal space!