Horses frogs are very underdeveloped..?

[amandaco2]

one of my horses has tiny frogs

he has come out of shoes about 4 weeks ago, before that he had fronts on for 2 shoeing cycles (so about 9 weeks) and was naked hoofed for about 3 months before that. (and bfore that shod in front since for many many years)
hes always been sensitive on stones without front shoes but i am starting to understand how diet can be causing this.
his frogs have always been very very weedy!
my other horses, particularly my 6 yr old who has never been shod look like plump cushions in comparison!
is hind hooves in comparison seem to stomp over anything without any fuss and have been nude for many years.

ive swapped him onto a high fibre diet-
hifi molasses free
linseed meal
fast fibre
benevit multi vits

( diet before was the same but no linseed and he had a tiny bit of endurance mix, oats, speedi beet)

he is fine in the field or on the arena or flat smooth surfaces
he cannot go over stones- even a tiny one and he acts like his leg has fallen off.

he wears hoof boots to go hacking and is ok in them

his feet get picked out 1-2 x daily and cleaned with miltons spray, at the moment daily as im pretty sure his frogs have got nasties in there.

however- ive noticed his frogs appear tiny! is there a special pad you can get to help develop them as at the moment they dont contact the ground much..?? not at all on a hard surface

or is it a case of just waiting for him...?
ive also noticed he has a red line (near where the white line is at the toe)

 

[Andalucian]

Hi, well done for your powers of observation. These frogs are weedy, and the reason is because they haven't done anything for a long time. Its early days out of shoes, so you can't load them too much just yet but they need the heels lowering steadily so that they start to take some pressure and develop again.

The red in the white line at the toe is common post shoe removal. Its due to the action of the toe clip of the shoe on the hoof and will disappear in a few weeks without any cause for concern.

 

[amandaco2]

although his heels look high, they are really close to the sole...not sure how to explain.
its like the sole of the hoof mould to the wall..?
my other horses have a clear wall that sits proud of the sole but he doesnt....
i fear trimming down the hoof will make him sore as he will be walking on sole..?
glad the red line is harmless.....
can i get pads for his hoof boots that will help get his frog working again?
the hind frogs are also under developed but they have been naked for a long time...
im sure its contributing to his sensitivity on stones....

 

[cptrayes]

It's normal for barefoot horses to walk on their soles A. It's your other horses which are odd, not this one, in that respect.

I can see two things, I think, from your photos. One is that the soles look very flat. The other is that in the first photo, those hind feet (?) are bullnosed. The front ones are also curved, but look as if that is the product of rasping, but in the back ones the bulge is where I would expect it to be in a true bullnosed foot.

The only horses I have come across with bull nosed hind feet have all had an inability to digest the level of carbohydrate that was in their diet. That problem will often also produce flat feet.

I would personally add both yeast and magnesium oxide to his diet immediately, as both should help with the gut issue.

 

[amandaco2]

The soles are massively concave. They arch upwards towards his frogs. I will try to get better pics to show....

 

[amandaco2]

The pictures are all of his front hooves.
His hinds do have a shape like a bullnose though....

 

[amandaco2]

for comparision


when shod when first bought.

 

[amandaco2]

few more pics

 

[amandaco2]

my youngsters foot for comparison

 

[LucyPriory]

OP - my initial thoughts were: severely contracted and very thrushy. As the feeling comes back into those feet he may experience quite a bit of pain in the caudal hoof. To decontract successfully you need to get on top of the thrush.

One very successful method is this:

Pick out very very thoroughly - be careful in the central sulci which look quite raw.

Using Sudocrem and lots cotton tips carefully clean out all cracks, holes and crevices right to the bottom.

Do this by thoroughly coating the cotton tips in Sudocrem. Wipe out an area, discard the tip and move on to the next Sudocrem dipped cotton tip. Do not reuse dirty tips. Repeat until the cotton tips come out clean.

Then thoroughly coat the cleaned area in more Sudocrem. Do this daily. If you are effective in getting out all the dirt you should notice an improvement very quickly.

This method is no good if you don't get all the dirt out though.

I advise against using harsh chemicals such as hibiscrub, foot rot spray, iodine/purple sprays and the like as they damage healthy tissue as well as the bugs.

In wetter environmental conditions I use a similar process but instead of the final coating being Sudocrem, I wipe out the traces of Sudocrem from the cleaning process and pack the foot with Field Paste, then let the horse stand on clean concrete for 20 minutes while the oils soak into the frog.

Take great care because central sulci like this can be very sore.

 

[paddy555]

http://www.hoofrehab.com/bootarticle.htm

the above link should answer your question about padding the frog. Pics are half way down the page.

Whilst it is a good idea I think that at the moment it would just make your horse sore.
Your second pic down on your first post shows the nasties in the central sulchus. I wouldn't think that spraying with milton was sufficient. In that situation I normally scrub the entire frog, sides, bottom etc twice daily with hibiscrub and then lather with sudocrem. For the central sulchus I get to the bottom of it (being careful as it may be very sore) with a cotton bud dipped in hibiscrub and give it a really good clean. Then I get sudocrem into it again with a bud or through a syringe to really get it to the bottom of the cleft to start to get it cleaned out and healing. I do all this for a week to 10 days BTW. The knack with the sulchus is cleanliness. Keep opening it up and cleaning it.

Having done this and got rid of the soreness then I think your idea of padding the frog will work well.

 

[amandaco2]

Ok will keep it super clean and review in two weeks. Off to buy some sudo creme now!!!
And will get some of the field paste.
Thanks for the advice
The other thing I've noticed is he tends to get the tip of the frog torn....

 

[amandaco2]

How long will it take to have an effect on sensitivity...I know its not an exact science....

 

[Ilovefoals]

Can I ask where the central sulchus is? Is it that crevice in the frog at the heel? I think I should take pics of my boys feet and post them on here for advice. He has very spongey frogs and deep crevices which I can never seem to get clean and is off just now with foot balance issues.