Horses on diet. Reduction in poo numbers. How few is too few?

[MDB]

Hi all.
I have posted a few threads recently about getting my fat horses to lose weight. One is lame and out of action. The other I have worked very hard on for the last 3 weeks to get her hacking alone. Both horses are at home, on the side of a hill (nowhere to lunge) in a small, very short grassy paddock at the moment. The grass on the track is so long that I am waiting for it to be cut next week so the track is closed off.
The fattest one we have hacked out 5 times this week. Today she is having a rest as we did a long hack (1hr 30 - long for her! And hilly) in the heat yesterday.
Anyways, in my last thread about weight loss some responses were to provide soaked hay and others said they don't need anything. So i have until now been holding off from giving any hay. Normally, I would get around 18 poos from both per day when they were eating loads and enjoying being fat. Recently it has been about 15 - 16. Today it is down to 13.
So I have started soaking 4 flakes of hay today which I will give 2 each tomorrow. And today I have given them, at the minute, one flake each of dry hay in a double netted hay net.
I am not quite sure about how many flakes of soaked hay they should get each in order to maintain gut health and poo numbers, but still lose weight. One horse is a fine boned PRE mare, 15.2 hands and the other a stockier Lusitano-Arab at 16 hands. Both 80kg overweight, the smallwr one probably 100kg overweight, but we have had a 3cm loss in girth circumference in 3 weeks with the fattest.
Thanks all.

 

[QuantockHills]

my 16hh ID x Cob X TB only ever did 8-10 poos in 24 hours for the whole 12 years I had him. He never had lami but did develop cushings at 12 years old and I lost him a week after his 14th birthday..... he was always on the 'porky' side but I did manage to get 99 kilos off him one summer.... I took him to 'fat club' at my vets once a month and he went on the weigh bridge. He was only allowed 10 lbs of hay a day which i soaked for 24 hours and then rinsed off, if he was in overnight, other than that he wore a grazing muzzle. He was also ridden 6 days a week with lots of hill work. It was really hard work but he was much better for it. The droppings amount will decrease if they are eating less but as long as they don't get really hard, i wouldn't worry too much.

 

[SEL]

I was told that if mine are doing between 12-20 in a 24 hour period then that's fine.

 

[Sukistokes2]

I look for mine to have done at least 1/2 a wheel barrow load each in 24 hours, less then that and i add more forage.

 

[Cahill]

I was told that if mine are doing between 12-20 in a 24 hour period then that's fine.

that seems a lot-mine average 1 poo every 2 hours on normal rations . 20 !!

 

[katymay]

I always work on 12 poos per day each over a 24 hour period which seems to be the norm for them, although I am happier with less from both as they are both restricted intake at the moment, if it goes over 12 then I know they are getting far too much (unless they are being topped up with empty calories like chopped straw then wouldn't worry about more)

 

[MDB]

Thanks to all that have answered. So we can safely say that 7 each per day is too little and I am doing the right thing by adding in soaked hay?

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Mine only ever poos 8-10 a day max. In 8 hours in the field he does 2-3 a day and the rest overnight.

When I had to diet him for an operation he took 2 months to lose 32 kilos. He had 1.5% of his body weight in forage a day, reducing as he lost weight. So at 600kg he had 9kg of forage a day consisting plus small feed (1kg) of chaff and lo-cal balancer (enough to give joint supplements in). At night he had 5kg hay soaked all day and double netted. In the day he had 3kg soaked overnight but fed on ground as nowhere to tie net. He was kept in a small electric fenced paddock that had a small amount of grass to nibble on. He was not able to be excercised. He was only about 4kg of soaked hay at night and had open paddock in day prior to diet plus same feed bar a few nuts so not a lot to cut out. It was the access to plentiful grass and no exercise that made his waste expand rapidly.

The vet said he should lose about 100kg but 50kg would be ok frankly after losing just the 32kg he looked much better and the vet operated he'd have been thin if he lost 100kg so vet really didn't know how to judge weight very well.

You do have to be careful about too rapid a weight loss especially in ponies as it can make them ill. https://www.vetstream.com/treat/equis/diseases/hyperlipemia-syndrome

Blue cross has great advice on slimming a horse safely.
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/fat-horse-slim

 

[Coblover63]

You definitely have to learn what is the normal amount for your horse and reading this proves the variety in the numbers.

If you are limiting grass and soaking hay, do consider a vitamin E supplement as her diet will currently be deficient.

 

[supsup]

Mine is a good doer too, and I usually aim for around 8 per day over the weight-watcher season (spring through autumn). At times, this has dropped to 6/day, which I consider the absolute minimum, and will generally allow access to a bit more grass if we reach a 6. I can tell from the colour and consistency if we're dealing with stalky, fibrous stuff or soft, fresh spring grass (green, very fine structure). I'll be more tolerant of low numbers if we're solidly in a fresh, low fibre grass phase (usually spring/early summer) as I figure that sort of grass is simply more digestible, so for a given amount of input, less comes out the other end compared to stalky, mature grass.

 

[ihatework]

It's quite horse dependant. For years I appear to have owned poo monsters - they would eat non stop like it's going out of fashion and poo in a similar manner, when on strict diet my mare would do at least 12 per 24 hours. Through winter on adlib forage it could easily be more.

I've got a new horse in at the minute who has unrestricted access to grass/haylage and 2 decent bucket feeds a day, yet produces 6-7 a day (neatly deposited in one place I might add!!)

 

[Casey76]

To adequately judge the amount of forage needed you need to know how much (approximately) the horse weighs. A tape can give you a rough estimate, and can make it easier to see small changes upwards or downwards.

To lose weight, the horse needs to be eating (DRY weight!) 1.5% bodyweight of the current weight OR 2% of the ideal weight - whichever is greater

You need to weigh the hay, before soaking, as the different flakes or leaves of hay could be different weights. You can buy a digital or mechanical fish scale (much cheaper than a "hay" i.e. equestrian weigher!) for a few euros. Mine is a godsend!

You need to estimate how much grass your horse is eating in the course of 24 hours. Grass is approximately 20% DM, so if you estimate they eat 10kg of grass, they are eating 2kg DM; this needs to be taken into account when you are weighing the hay (which is approx. 90% DM unsoaked).

Confused yet??? lol! it took me ages to get my head around it all.

I figured that T eats approx. 5kg of grass in 12 hours (she wears a muzzle, and the grass is very short. It would take me a long time to cut 1kg of grass with ordinary kitchen scissors. Therefore I subtract 1kg from the total DM "allowance" of 7kg (350kg x 0.02), which leaves 6kg for hay, chaff, nuts etc to put her supplements in.

I weigh (tape) every week and keep a diary of how much work she is doing, if she eats all of her hay or not. Like at the moment, T is actually gaining a little weight, despite being on diet rations as she isn't in work *head desk*, so I need to change more of the hay to plain straw chaff - same amount of forage, but less energy.

Also, as you are in the heat; don't soak they hay for more than an hour. It goes rancid very quickly above 25C, and most of the sugars have been leached out after an hour anyway. I normally soak for 12 hours, as this fits into my schedule nicely, but at the moment I just can't (due to heat), so they get a max of 1 hour dunked and rinsed.

 

[Auslander]

Alf only produces around 8/9 in 24h, but they are HUGE! His output is similar in volume to his field companion, who does about 15 modestly sized ones

 

[MDB]

To adequately judge the amount of forage needed you need to know how much (approximately) the horse weighs. A tape can give you a rough estimate, and can make it easier to see small changes upwards or downwards.

To lose weight, the horse needs to be eating (DRY weight!) 1.5% bodyweight of the current weight OR 2% of the ideal weight - whichever is greater

You need to weigh the hay, before soaking, as the different flakes or leaves of hay could be different weights. You can buy a digital or mechanical fish scale (much cheaper than a "hay" i.e. equestrian weigher!) for a few euros. Mine is a godsend!

You need to estimate how much grass your horse is eating in the course of 24 hours. Grass is approximately 20% DM, so if you estimate they eat 10kg of grass, they are eating 2kg DM; this needs to be taken into account when you are weighing the hay (which is approx. 90% DM unsoaked).

Confused yet??? lol! it took me ages to get my head around it all.

I figured that T eats approx. 5kg of grass in 12 hours (she wears a muzzle, and the grass is very short. It would take me a long time to cut 1kg of grass with ordinary kitchen scissors. Therefore I subtract 1kg from the total DM "allowance" of 7kg (350kg x 0.02), which leaves 6kg for hay, chaff, nuts etc to put her supplements in.

I weigh (tape) every week and keep a diary of how much work she is doing, if she eats all of her hay or not. Like at the moment, T is actually gaining a little weight, despite being on diet rations as she isn't in work *head desk*, so I need to change more of the hay to plain straw chaff - same amount of forage, but less energy.

Also, as you are in the heat; don't soak they hay for more than an hour. It goes rancid very quickly above 25C, and most of the sugars have been leached out after an hour anyway. I normally soak for 12 hours, as this fits into my schedule nicely, but at the moment I just can't (due to heat), so they get a max of 1 hour dunked and rinsed.

Thanks for this. I have a weigh tape and was checking daily (impatient or in denial that I had measured correctly). According to the weigh tape the fatty has lost maybe around 14kg in 3 nearly 4 weeks.
I can easily weight they hay etc etc. but how do I calculate how much grass they are eating? They are in an area about 3/4 of an acre. The grass is short, a few cm except in areas where they poo which is longer but they don't seem to be eating.
I will reduce the soaking time then in view of the heat that is no problem.
I am on such a roll with all of this, getting my real fatty out hacking alone and seeing how she has transformed in her confidence.. she was always on her toes and looking and spooking at everything. No word of a lie, when we go hacking she is transformed, she is so calm.. I am loving it. So I really want to get ontop of both of their weight situations. Thw other one who is not quite so overweight is lame. We were not sure if it was an abcess but nothing came of it. She is probably about 85% better so we think probably a field injury. So ofcourse reducing her weight will help her recovery too.
I am determined to get both of these horses looking much better by the end of summer which is mid to end of october here. So that gives me 4 months.

 

[MDB]

Alf only produces around 8/9 in 24h, but they are HUGE! His output is similar in volume to his field companion, who does about 15 modestly sized ones

Yeah my two often have enormous ones that won't all fit in the poo scooper thingy. They have one or two big ones and one or two small ones so it probably all evens out.

 

[little_critter]

Alf only produces around 8/9 in 24h, but they are HUGE! His output is similar in volume to his field companion, who does about 15 modestly sized ones

Ditto, my 14.1hh pony does poos an elephant would be proud of! Usually only 8ish in 24 hours.

 

[windand rain]

I like mine to do between 4 and 6 in 24 hours as long as they are big and soft I would introduce soaked hay if they ever got hard and bullet like regardless of how many. They are steadily losing weight on a track system