Horses ON LOAN - 'Automatic' ownership transfer?

brighteyes

brighteyes

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Does a horse which is on loan, whose owner has never agreed to ownership change EVER belong/transfer automatically to the loan party? Is there a time limit?

Does it matter if the contract was verbal?

What about the tack and equipment it was loaned with?
 
No.....the horse is on loan and the terms of the loan will be set out by the signed, witnessed loan agreement. Unless the owner signs the horse over and the loaner has a signed receipt to say this, the horse remains the legal property of the owner
 
I can't imagine a loan agreement becoming ownership after a set period, unless it was specifically laid out in the agreement.

The idea that a change in status from loaner to owner could happen automatically seems inconceivable. I know that in the world of horses, there are a few things that seem a bit odd to the uninitiated, but even so, (and it sounds cold so forgive me for saying it) horses are property and transfer of ownership surely cannot happen without 'something' in writing to mark that transfer.
 
I think in a situation where you have e.g. Had pony on loan 15 years, lost touch with actual owner a decade earlier despite trying to stay in touch, pony is 25 and you have made reasonable efforts to actively trace the original owner you could assume ownership in making a decision to put to sleep.

But I think you would have to make a concerted effort to find actual owner first.

Sometimes if a horse is of little or know value I think some loan owners chose to disappear.
 
Playing Devil's Advocate here, a verbal contract is still a contract! People who can't read and write can still make contracts. But is always wise to get things in writing or at least have a witness.

I suppose if there was a verbal agreement to loan a horse and the loaner did not make contact or express an interest in it for some considerable time, there might be an assumption that the horse had been abandoned. I think a court would decide on the facts and what was likely to be true.

Those who watch Judge Judy (US law, of course) may have watched the case of the woman who went away on holiday and left her son's snake in the care of a friend for the duration of the holiday. When she returned, the friend would not return the snake but instead of taking it to court immediately, the snake owner waited a year. Judge Judy ruled that the friend did not have to return the snake because it had been abandoned. A successful compromised was reached and the snake was returned to the original owner in exchange for some property, but that was beside the matter.
 
No. A loan is a loan, if you want to transfer ownership you should get a receipt/bill of sale.

When loaning always consider how you would prove who owns the horse in court if the worst comes to the worst.
 
brightinsel said:
Does a horse which is on loan, whose owner has never agreed to ownership change EVER belong/transfer automatically to the loan party? Is there a time limit?

Does it matter if the contract was verbal?

What about the tack and equipment it was loaned with?
Click to expand...

An unusual question .. can you go into further details? Purely because im very nosy :o

I would agree a loan is a loan with contract in place to say ownership belongs to person A. For person B to become the owner there would need to be a bill of sale/ receipt for the horse.
 
A mate of mine, going back 30 years, loaned a horse that was retired from jumping as it was only suited to be a happy hacker after an injury, well she had a verbal " you can keep him as long as you want ok..." She paid all bills, you never did insurance in them days, she would sent Xmas cards with pics of said horse to owner, then one Xmas cards came back by Royal Mail marked moved away..... So as owner lived within an hour away me and her drove over there one day, to find the yard derelict, no one lived there and auction signe in the hedge, so we phoned the auction house, to try to find where the owner was, to find they had died and business dissolved and everything to be sold and passed to the heirs, so we went to great length to find the heirs, and they wanted nothing to do with the horse!! Told us to keep it or get rid of.. She keep the horse till it died of age..
So if you had made every effort to find owner, to no avail, and it is in the horses welfare to stay with current keeper ownership could be assumed, as long as every effort had been made.
It all is down to circumstances though, my mates case was unusual . I think there is a point in law that after so many years with no contact or correspondence from owner then steps could be made to claim ownership.
 
If the owner had disappeared you could claim abandonment, but that is different from their being an automatic transfer after a certain time and there are legal proceedures to follow.

OP it would help if we know whether you have the horse on loan or whether you are the owner loaning it out so we can advise.
 
Its an interesting discussion, and one I've had to deal with myself, after taking a horse on loan, with the loan agreement for 1 year... the owner has dissappeared off the face of the earth, I managed to contact her once, and we agreed she would come and see said horse so we could arrange some paperwork... she never showed, the phone number i had stopped working and the house she had been living in was empty... there were accusations of involvement with the RSPCA for her other ponies... and a time in prison for her... I still have the horse 3 years later, retired and very happy & healthy (she had basically been dumped by her owner prior to me taking her) - I would take this woman through the courts if she ever tried to take the horse back. I have taken legal advice, and was told that i should just assume ownership (although not officially) and take it as abandonment, if she ever came back they believed I'd have a case to request full payment for all the costs (livery/farrier/vet etc etc) from the end of the loan agreement up to date if it ever came to it.

Thankfully, I dont believe I'll ever hear from her again, I may try looking for her if i ever have to make the PTS decision for Connie, but i definitely wont hold my breath that i'll find her!
 
here is Italy, yes. If you take a horse on loan and you do things such as shoe the horse, pull it's mane, trim it's tail etc then you can argue (and it has been argued successfully in court) that you are the owner because you are doing things only an owner would do. Apparantly it is one of those 'ancient laws' that was never updated. For this reason an air tight written contract is required for loans!!
 
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