Horses showing natural jumping ability loose ...or not!

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foxy1

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Or on the lunge to be more precise.....

If you went to see a youngster that ground to a halt when lunged in to a 2 ft cross pole, (and then ran round it repeatedly) would you automatically write off any potential as a showjumper?

Or do you think it could still be taught to be half decent?

Have to say the person lunging lacked some skill and horse constantly was watching lunge whip and had never been jumped before, but even so.......?
 
My youngster did this the first and only time i tried to lunge him over a tiny not even 1ft jump lol and when he did go over it he flopped over it.
2bh I dont think lunging is very accurate. Free lunging is the best as it allows the horse to just get on with it and do it itself. also is easier when the horse is not on a circle as it would on the lunge. some horses as well need a larger jump before they jump properly. Not that I would free lunge a youngster over huge jumps 2bh thats why im waiting till mine gets to 4 before free lunging over jumps. He is mainly being aimed at a dressage career anyways but still would like to do jumping with him.
I wouldn't write off that this horse doesnt have jumping talent though!
 
Hmm, I'd be concerned.

Loose jumping is a really good way of seeing the horses natural attitude to the job. If the horse has been taught there is an alternative to jumping, and hasn't found it's early jumping experience much fun, you may struggle to get them to be enthusiastic in the future.

I would try to get the horse somewhere to loose jump, and check it's attitude without being influenced negatively by it's handler. I brought my horse based on her loose jump as it showed her excellent attitude to the fence, and so far it hasn't let me down, as she loved the job from day one...
 
I'm with Kat on this one. When we viewed ours at rising 3 he had never been lunged/asked to do anything like this, and the facilities were, ahem, limited to say the least! However they knocked up x pole on edge of field and sent him over it with a lunge whip, he tipped it with a toe (literally first time he had ever left the ground). They put it up to about 2'9, and shoved a filler under. He came round again, adjusted himself properly and sailed over giving it a plenty of space and making a lovely shape.
I wouldn't write off a horse that didn't loose jump - my instructor had one who simply refused to loose jump that she competed successfully up to 1.20. But I'd be concerned that it had already learnt to go around a fence if given the option and would wonder how often they have tried this.....
How old is it?
 
It's a bit tricky to longe a horse successfully over jumps and it's quite possible the longe-r was doing something to put the horse off and/or the basic longeing wasn't in place for the task at hand. It's also quite possible to put a horse off loose schooling - I've seen people screw up a previously willing loose jumper in a session or even one trip down the chute.

I would want to have a play with the horse myself and make sure the situation was conducive before writing a horse off entirely. It would also depend a great deal on *how* the horse stopped and how quickly it could be convinced to go. If the horse then showed a distinct lack of aptitude I might be more inclined to say it probably wouldn't make a jumper but if it seemed to cotton on and then jumped well I'd be more generous. Also, there are some absolutely top class jumpers that are very spooky and would be easy to scare in the wrong hands. A horse like that might jump well but would not, in my opinion, be suitable for the average rider no matter how good its form.

I do think there is a pretty strong link between showing form when loose schooled properly and eventual ability under saddle. I agree there are horses that do one well and not the other but it's been my experience there's usually a bit more going on at that point.
 
Thanks all. Will go back and have a play with the horse myself although I think in my heart of hearts I know the answer already!
 
hmm, i think a 2' x pole for first fence ever, on the lunge with a not-great lunger, is an open invitation for a clever horse to take the mick, or a careful/worried horse to say 'not on your nelly'...
i start mine over much smaller than that, and don't go higher until they've gotten the idea that they go forward over it no matter what. 2' is quite big for a horse who is young and clueless, whereas say 8" high is much easier for a horse to pop over from a standstill if necessary.
did the jump have a sloping wing of a pole, to help guide the horse in? i'd be very careful to set it all up 'just so' if you are going to go back and have a play yourself, make it far easier for the horse.
 
Loose jumping is the best way to see a younger horse over a fence as the horse isnt restricted in any way, most love it and once they have jumped it a couple of times will come round to the fence on their own pretty much. I wouldnt write the horse off but maybe try loose schooling first, if it still doesnt want to know then i would have to say no thanks!
 
Thanks, I'm going to make it tiny and work up.

I get the feeling it's not the first time they have jumped him because he jiggled on the spot in front of it and had his eye on the whip with his tail tucked under his bottom as if he had had a good 'crack' from it before.

It was like he couldn't concentrate on the fence because he was watching the whip and was scared of it.
 
foxy1, this reminds me of a nice youngster a friend bought years ago, he was showed off horribly, whips being cracked under his tail etc, he was all over the place. very unfair on a young horse.
if the facilities don't allow loose-jumping, i would lead him over pole in hand, then 3 poles in a tiny heap together, then lunge him over them in exactly the same arrangement before getting them put up a bit. i'd keep the fence to an upright with obvious groundline, not a X pole, as this is far less forgiving to a young horse to begin with. just my two penneth worth...
 
Thanks, unfortunately can't jump him loose but will do as you suggest.

He is very well put together with lovely let down hocks and he moves like he would jump, so I was surprised when he didn't want to know.

I'm going back this afternoon for a try with him myself.
 
My event horse wont jump a twig on the lunge/ loose. She just doesnt get it. She has been able to get round a few intermediates so it wouldnt be a write off for me!
 
I agree with what the others have said. My coloured horse won't go near a pole on the floor when he's loose, let alone a jump! Yet to ride he will happily clear over a metre and is as honest as they come, saying that when I first got him he was very wary of jumping and would try and bolt over fences in order to get it over with! So I think someone had really scared him in the past. So I don't think this young horse refusing to jump has anything to do with ability, I expect he has just been trained wrong. I would go and have another look as you say and see how he does in different circumstances.
 
i dont think you will be able to tell too much about attitude at this stage, they are totally uneducated and thats almost really how i like them! If i went to see a youngster i deffo would NOT want it jumped on the lunge, but down a lane as in loose and straight! Whether it be poles on the ground or a cross pole you can tell an awful lot, and once or twice down the lane you get a really good idea!
 
To be honest I'd mainly be concerned about the amount of 'incorrect' work being done. Like some others on here, my horse is uber-spooky and won't go near a pole on the ground when lunged/free schooled and yet will happily jump big classes, so from a viewing point of view that wouldn't put me off. I'd just be worried about what kind of experiences the horse had had up to that point.

Sounds like this horse has had a couple of bad experiences (or acts as though it has) which might affect it's approach long-term. I think you can train showjumpers to jump to a pretty high level if the basics are there, the big question is around the temperament and confidence - if this has been impacted a lot in early years it does make the whole thing a lot more difficult. If there's been a bad past experience which means the horse 'defaults' to running out/stopping rather than trying to sort itself out when under pressure, because of the way it's been trained, it makes for a tricky journey. Not impossible and depends on the natural mindset too, but that would be the concerning element for me, not the actual ability/jump when loose/lunged.
 
^ Absolutely. I've worked with horses that have had their attitude to jumper permanently affected by their very early jumping experiences and, like everything, it's so much easier to avoid a problem than try to fix one later. I've sat on more than one horse that "guns" out of the corner when it's worried because it's been chased.

Professionals who loose jump for approvals etc or as part of their training program (a lot of the "old style" guys had specially built chutes/pens and I have pics in a book of Caroline Bradley jumping her homebred yearlings) do a lot of horses and have very specific systems and goals. Yes, they are looking for ability but within a very specific context and structure, it's not a random exercise.

I've seen horses seriously put off in one session. Especially in public, people get over excited and lose their timing - even cracking the whip at the wrong time can seriously interfere with the horse and cause it to lose confidence or even get in trouble. At this point lots of sensitive horses decide they're not keen to go again, thanks.
 
^^ again, totally agree with all of this. My older horse is a naturally cautious creature. He will jump absolutely fine for a decent rider but his default is definately to stop rather than risk it, and if he had been pushed incorrectly as a youngster be it in the saddle or from the ground he wouldn't be even half as good as he is now. He is the type to spook at a pole on the ground/wings in the school when not actually jumping!
Youngster who I know has never ever been forced/chased over a fence is bold and content, and never 'fires' me towards a fence, or worries himself into stopping. A lot of this will be nature but nurture certainly comes into it and I'd be concerned that a lot more had been done than the vendors are letting on, and that it might take a lot of work to undo this. Plus at the end of all the work you may still have a horse who defaults to 'stop'. My older boy will always do this which is partly why we don't jump more than about 90cm any more as if we get it even slightly wrong he slams on the anchors. Younger one's default is just to go higher!
 
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