Horses using the Roads...

J

JM07

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i know we all get "upset" if anyone dares to mention that Horses shouldn't be on the road.

after having a quick "poll" here in the office, the overwealming reason that most road users get hot under the collar at "us" is interesting.

1. we pay no raod tax.
2. the animal hasn't had a "roadworthy" test.
3. it isn't compulsory for the rider to take a similar test.
4. is the animal insured? (i know some cars aren't either!)
5. not visible enough. ( high viz gear should be compulsory)
these were the main points mentioned several times over, some were a little trivial though, so i didn't bother with those!!

thoughts?????
 
I've heard similar points, others included were that we should have to pick up after our horses when they poo like people have to do for their dogs [imagines riding along with a huge sack and a spade]
 
1. We do not do the damage to the roads that cars/lorries do, or use the roads as much.
2. How do you get them roadworthy if not by taking them out on the roads?
3. No neither is it for cyclists, & car drivers are not taught how to pass horses either.
4. Anyone who takes an uninsured horse out on the road is mad but that is another issue.
5. I agree High Viz should be worn. A couple of weeks ago at 5.45 a group of riders none of whome were wearing High Viz were not that visiable it has to be said.
6. I also think no one should ride on the roads without a hat or properly fitting tack.
 
The reason that dog poo should be collected is because most dogs eat a predominantly meat based diet, cause the faeces to rot and develop bacteria that can carry diease, horses on the other hand eat a vegetative diet and therefore the horse droppings biodegrade harmlessly.
 
Don't agree about road tax etc, but I do think that cars have more right to be on the road than horses. Reflectives should be compulsary. I get annoyed when I see horses causing traffic to build up behind them because they refuse to move over and let people past. Everyone should be able to share the road, if everyone is considerate (unlikely!!)
 
Every horse on the road (every horse for that matter) should be insured, and if you go out on the roads I also agree it should be compulsory to wear hi-viz.

However IMO we should not pay road tax because our horses do not damage the environment or the roads.

Riders would not purposefully put themselves or their horses in danger, so would make sure the horse is 'roadworthy' and they are capable before going on busy or fast roads.
 
Do they no realise that we don't ride on the road out of choice or desire but because despite paying plenty of council tax (especially our yard owners with their land), stamp duty (as before), VAT on horsey products and so on so forth, most of us have little if any provision for off road riding.

Now I see councils pouring money into skate parks and the like - if we got some of the same we wouldn't be on the road.
 
I agree with Chex - cars should have more right to use the road (as that is the only place they can go). However I do think that insurance, fluroescent/reflective clothing, a hat and decent tack should be compulsory. I also think that the R&RS tests should be pushed more, although they are ridiculous (I've done the BHS one) in content they at least show that the rider is "trained" to cope with riding on the roads. However I think that picking up poo, paying road tax and having a horsey MOT are all ridiculous notions, you can't compare a horse to a car these days as a form of transport!
I'm surprised rude riders were not on the list (although rudeness may be the basis for the bad feeling generating the points?)!
 
TBH the biggest problem is that some riders don't acknowledge drivers....so we end up with drivers thinking why should I slow down,and because we up higher the impression is we all look as if we are looking down on them! So I can understand why some people feel we should not be on the road!
 
1) Yes I've had this one on road tax as well - its completely bonkers! I would guess that the vast majority of riders are car owners, and therefore contribute through their car ownership. And the argument only stands up if you think that ALL other road users should pay car tax - ie cyclists, joggers, walkers, etc

2) Hmmm .... probably lots of people will have done their PC Road Safety Test. And even the most bomb-proof horse is never 100% reliable.

3) Maybe a good idea? But then another part of me feels that this is just going to create yet more bureaucracy!

4) Probably should be compulsory for all horse owners to at least have public liability insurance. Its just the way of the world now, sadly ...

5) Visibility - fair point, and I think more and more riders are getting safety conscious on this.
 
There's nothing new in thes arguements made by motorists, it's been going on for years & will continue:

Agreed, we pay no road tax, neither do cyclists, pedestrians etc (and neither do a proportion of motorists)

Animal hasn't had a roadworthy test... don't know how it could be done & enforced, but drivers don''t seem to know how to act around horses either.

Agreed it isn't compulsory for a riding safety test, they are available & I think Pony Clubs do them. Many riders drive so they should have road sense shouldn't they.

The majority of horses are insured (I think) A high proportion of motorists, specially youngsters in performance cars are not due to very high premiums)

Fully agree that Hi Viz should be compulsory on roads, should be common sence really & likewise for cyclists.

Well that's my thoughts for what they're worth.
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[ QUOTE ]
Totally agree that we should wear Hi-Viz at all times and yes we should have some form of insurance.

The rest of it though, I think is rubbish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Hi viz and insurance however the rider should also be competent enough to be on the road. My Mum met 2 wee girls (12/13ish) on a hack (Mum was in the car) and they proceeded to wave her on round a blind bend while they were on the wrong side of the road
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Neither of them was wearing hi viz either
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It is not only horses that use the roads but cyclists and pedestrians.

It is the motorist that is driving the lethal weapon and the motorst that should be driving with due care and attention. Road tax is for motor powered vehicles.

The motorist is safe from the elements of the weather in the confines of their car. How often does a pedestrian, cyclist or horse rider kill a driver of a motorised vehicle in an accident?

It is the motorist that needs to be educated and controlled more - rather that the horse rider.
 
cant wait til someone invents a giant poop scoop for out hacking maybe it'll have an extendable handle for use on horses of any size
i'll be trotting home with lots of bags of poo hanging from my saddle
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LOL
 
Very good point kick_on well said
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Right are my thoughts.
1. We don't pay road tax.
Well I agree that no we don't (as horse riders) and as someone pointed out neither do cyclists, pedestrians and even some drivers of vehicles. Horses do not cause anywhere near as much pollution as cars either by the their consumption of fuel or the emission of waste products. Oil refining and producing petrol (or gasoline) causes pollution worldwide. When the fuel is then burned environmentally harmful gases such as carbon dioxide (in quantity) and sulphur dioxide are produced. The same cannot be said of horses. Horses eat primarily grass and hay. A green (pardon the pun) food source. No pollution caused by grass growing in fields is there? The horse digests the grass and then expels methane and other gases whilst the waste product falls to the floor. The dung then disintegrates over a period of time by rain and wind erosion. This waste if falling, running or blown into roadside ditches can become a source of food for plants, insects and animals.
You may wonder why I am raising this point it is because millions (may be even billions) of pounds are spent each year to try and combat pollution caused by refining oil and people driving petrol or diesel powered vehicles. Vehicle licence duty is also used to pay for the construction and maintenance of highways used by vehicles and repairing the damage caused by them.
Horses cannot be held responsible for the damage caused to the highways. They are not heavy enough (compared to the average car), they don't use the roads as much compared to vehicle users and neither can their numbers match the amount of vehicles that use the highways across the UK today.
So why should horse riders pay road tax when they do not cause as much damage or pollution as vehicles?
2. Roadworthy tests i.e. MOT. An MOT certificate is issued to ensure that a vehicle is roadworthy i.e. not dangerous to the driver, passengers or other road users. By dangerous I mean the car is mechanically sound. I can certainly not vouch for the mentality of some drivers who are a law unto themselves to be honest.
Also since vehicles can travel at high speeds (compared to a horse) the damage they can cause to other drivers, vehicles and even pedestrians can be catastrophic compared to an out of control horse. Therefore a mechanical test on the vehicle should be compulsory as even a faulty tyre could have dangerous repercussions if the driver is travelling at speed and a blow out occurs.
A horse could not take such a test. The rider and/or owner of the horse should have prejudged whether the horse was fit enough to ride i.e. not lame or having any other injury or illness which may cause it to react badly when ridden.
If a horse was forced to be subject of such a test or licence then surely why cannot the same be said of drivers. Should they not endure both a physical and in some cases a psychological examination before being allowed to drive.
You cannot predict how a horse will react to any given situation. A horse is an animal. One considered as a flight animal and as such is capable of moving away from a danger with no forewarning. Even the most bombproof horses will have had an 'off' day on the roads. They are not machines and therefore are not predictable.
Therefore a pre test result would be totally unreliable and certainly not worth the paper it was written on.

3. It isn't compulsory for the rider to take a similar test. By that I assume a driving test. I would have to say that I agree that riders should take a test to ride on the roads before they are allowed to.
But the biggest flaw would be how the hell would anyone know whether or not someone had taken a test unless they were involved in a RTA and the name and address were checked. It would be almost impossible to police. My biggest gripe would be the costs though as I would imagine the test would not be cheap should it become law. Yet another moneymaking scheme.
The BHS currently offers a riding and road safety test but this is completely voluntary. From a personal pov I should like to take this test at some point in the future.
I do feel though that there are some riders on the roads that have little or no conception of road use and other users.
I have had plenty of experience using roads as the hacks I have been on with riding schools has involved using roads and I would say that although not perfect I do know most of the correct hand signals by heart and I'm always responsive to other drivers such as telling them to come forward, or go around and saying thank you when applicable.
I have seen riders who have ridden two abreast and sometimes more on main roads. Ok if a horse is young, or the rider is and the other is shielding that horse/rider from the traffic. But if that is the case then they should wear a tabard saying young rider/young horse etc. Otherwise riding like this can set a bad example for horse riders in general.
The same is true of people on horses who fail to move over to allow traffic to pass. If the horse is wary of traffic then suitable attire should be worn to warn drivers otherwise they would just overtake and assume that all horse riders are rude and inconsiderate.
I have stopped to let traffic go past me or pulled into a lay-by or behind cars etc and that is on a horse I have only ridden out alone 3 times on the road and twice on my own (only had him for 7 months). Mostly it has been due to the fact of me being considerate and also to see how the horse would react to vehicles going past as the home he came from was not in a busy area and we have a pretty busy main road which gets quite a lot of HGV's that go straight past the yard.

4. Is the animal insured? Yes mine are and I agree that all horse owners should insure their animals for at least public liability if they wish to use the roads. I understand some vehicle drivers are not insured but that is up to them. Personally speaking I have a conscience and one that would not allow me to put my horses in a position where they may cause an injury to someone (however unintentional) and for those people not to receive any compensation as a result of that injury. I know money is no recompense for the loss of a limb, or sight etc but at least it would allow the afflicted to receive the specialist care they would need and have the financial security for the future.


5. Hi viz and not visible enough, being compulsory. Yes I agree on that one as well. I never go out riding even without hi viz. On my hat, a jacket and the horse wears ho viz boots and a tail bandage. I even have the exercise sheets but have not used them yet as I had a problem with the saddle slipping (sorted now) but will try and find a way of using them in the future.

Magic you mentioned hats being worn when on the road. I know it is an offence for someone under the age of 14 not to be wearing one on the road. I think this should be changed to anyone of any age to be honest.

I have no choice but to ride on a road because even my nearest bridle path can only be accessed by road. Not that you can call it an exclusive bridle path as it is used by walkers, cyclists and dog walkers. Hardly a bridle path for horses
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Caroline
 
Whether or not that photo is a fake I think it is totally inappropriate to stick it directly in the thread like that. I saw it without warning and I think it could be very upsetting for some people.
 
I did my BHS road safety test many years ago and remember it being a bugger to pass with theory and practical. I get so annoyed by rubbish people riding horses on the road with no consideration for others. I ride all my horses up the A38 and A370 and I am always thanking people.
As for road tax - I pay VAT on everything I buy for my horse, I pay for insurance and I sustain green areas rather than just building on everything and I help sustain several other traditional/local industries/business through having a horse as I do not shop at Tesco for everything.
 
Did you really have to post that photo...for god's sake I don't need such images plastered in my head thank you!!!!!!
 
I don't have a problem with that photo. If the result is to make one more person wear Hi Viz, or drive more slowly then it has done it's job.

You can't go through life with your head buried in the sand.
 
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